Has anyone read The Metamorphosis by Kafka?

Page 1 of 2 [ 17 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

JWRed
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 30 Nov 2007
Age: 53
Gender: Male
Posts: 301
Location: Malibu, California

21 Jan 2008, 12:48 pm

What was the cockroach's attitude toward sex? Did he have a lot of sex?



MissPickwickian
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Nov 2007
Age: 33
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,044
Location: Tennessee

21 Jan 2008, 1:16 pm

I love that book!

I don't think the Gregor Samsa has any sex in the novel. At all. Most of the time he's locked in his room consumed with existential angst about having turned into a cockroach. There are is a Freudian incest subtext (well, sub-subtext) between Gregor and his sister, who grudgingly cares for him. At one point she throws an apple at him (think Eden), and in the last scene she trips over her petticoats in a slightly suggestive way.

Why do you ask?


_________________
Powered by quotes since 7/25/10


oblio
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Dec 2007
Age: 68
Gender: Male
Posts: 529
Location: 1 Observatree Close, Pointless Forest, Low Countries

21 Jan 2008, 4:04 pm

i think all of Kafka could very well be as-related;

the short stories are especially stunning &
yes The M (Die Verwandlung) is good,

but have you ever read...
i forget the original german title,
in dutch it was Het Hol,
which i would translate as The Burrow

that must be as close (in)to the paranoid mind as one could get

my favourite dutch writer, Simon Vestdijk, was plagued with
depression all his life.
i think he got his first serious one after having published some five novels.
he then tried his hand at a historical novel, The Fifth Seal, on El Greco,
got somewhat lost in a much too long, overly detailed onle descriptive
first chapter & got stuck
i don't know how he ran into Kafka around that time, reading K threw
hi into what i think was his first major depression

few people have ever noticed a remarkable difference in styles between
the static first chapter and the rest of The Fifth Seal, which was written post-
depression, but more importantly post reading Kafka

i wouldn't be surprised if it were The Burrow that did the trick
it's a long time since i read at all though, much longer since Kafka
& and i might have lent it to some non-returnive so&so
- i REALLY resent having just wisely succumbed to my internal censor


_________________
a point in every direction is the same as no point at all - or is it

may your god forgive you


Postperson
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 9 Jul 2004
Age: 67
Gender: Female
Posts: 4,023
Location: Uz

21 Jan 2008, 4:18 pm

I lerv that book. It's so much like my family. I'm the cockroach of course. Such an AS parable.

No I don't think there's any sex in it either. That's life for us cockroaches.



Inventor
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Feb 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,014
Location: New Orleans

21 Jan 2008, 4:20 pm

No, none. Gregor is the story of life turned inward, looking too deep.

What he found was what all will find, it is a strange place.

Behind the living, is insect survival, something that lives to stay alive.

Gregor has given up on the distractions of life, withdrawn, to look within.

That is fine, in the values of the universe we are bugs.

He found a truth, but missed the truth of bugs going out to dinner, seeing plays, hearing music, do all the things a bug can do.

He is also Kafka, the writer alone, hardly any contact with the world, to write about it.

The cockroach lives, somewhere, eats, and causes those around to become cockroaches.

Where as brother he should be showing her the world, and to the world, his withdrawal takes her to his isolation, and it is the nature of a female roach to reproduce.

Life at it's lowest is accepted, they live where they can, eat what is available, and will reproduce with whoever is around.

A sub plot is that his condition affects others. He has left life, but drags his sister with him.

She did not want to become Mrs. Roach, but roles are put on us by those around.

Alone, locked in his room, he locks her life up too.

Looking too close at life, destroys it's enjoyment for the viewer, and for those around.



sartresue
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Age: 70
Gender: Female
Posts: 6,313
Location: The Castle of Shock and Awe-tism

21 Jan 2008, 4:47 pm

"I have never found the kind of food I liked" topic

Gregor is an Aspie. He is the literary projection of Franz Kafka. Kafka himself had issues with the sex act, meaning it disturbed him. Some critics have argued the only sex Gregor (and by extension Franz) had was of the manual single-handed kind.

Biographies about Kafka and his relatively few published works abound and speak volumes about this great writer. Analyses of his stories are still ongoing, and fill more volumes than his literary output, inspiring other writers (this poster included) to emulate his ideas in their own short stories and 'Franz fan fiction'. His friend Max Brod was wise to not destroy the brilliant stories and other correspondence as Kafka had ordered shortly before the latter's death.

Other posters also have interesting ideas about Franz/Gregor. :)

Thanks for posting JWRed. I hope you find and read other interesting works by K. :D


_________________
Radiant Aspergian
Awe-Tistic Whirlwind

Phuture Phounder of the Philosophy Phactory

NOT a believer of Mystic Woo-Woo


Last edited by sartresue on 22 Jan 2008, 4:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

JohnHopkins
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 Nov 2007
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,463

Averick
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 5 Mar 2007
Age: 45
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,709
Location: My tower upon the crag. Yes, mwahahaha!

21 Jan 2008, 8:18 pm

Kafka is remarkable.



zee
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 Jul 2007
Age: 44
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 1,292
Location: on a cloud

21 Jan 2008, 9:21 pm

I've read it, it's a haunting story, but I don't see anything sexual in it either.
There's some good commentary here already, but I'll add that Kafka was writing in the dawning of the modern industrial age, and the idea that man is becoming more like a machine is a prominent metaphor. The insect is like a robot, in that it has multiple legs, and it's concerned mostly with working. He's dedicated his whole life to work as a salesman, so he's become like a machine in that sense.
Other Kafka works also involve this theme; and the movie 'Kafka' is a great exploration of people getting caught in the gears of progress.



zee
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 Jul 2007
Age: 44
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 1,292
Location: on a cloud

21 Jan 2008, 9:37 pm

'Why should today be different from any other?' - why should we even have dreams, huh?

That quote appears in the film, here is a link:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0102181/



Whisperer
Velociraptor
Velociraptor

User avatar

Joined: 13 Oct 2007
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 447

24 Jan 2008, 8:42 pm

There's some random sex in The Trial and in The Castle he gets married if I remember right but I'm not too sure I know what it signifies other than it's own sheer void pointlessness.
Read them long ago.



MissPickwickian
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Nov 2007
Age: 33
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,044
Location: Tennessee

24 Jan 2008, 8:58 pm

zee wrote:
I've read it, it's a haunting story, but I don't see anything sexual in it either.
There's some good commentary here already, but I'll add that Kafka was writing in the dawning of the modern industrial age, and the idea that man is becoming more like a machine is a prominent metaphor. The insect is like a robot, in that it has multiple legs, and it's concerned mostly with working. He's dedicated his whole life to work as a salesman, so he's become like a machine in that sense.
Other Kafka works also involve this theme; and the movie 'Kafka' is a great exploration of people getting caught in the gears of progress.


I believe the book is not about industrial darkness but human darkness in general: Gregor Samsa is not a factory worker or manager but rather a salesman, an everyman. The stages of his emotional reaction towards becoming a cockroach mirror those of a person growing older: First come violent resistance and denial and furious attempts at becoming something greater (youth), then a horrible, tedious resignation (middle age), and finally a pathetic return to the struggle in the face of extermination (the man on his deathbed). The Metamorphosis is possibly the most cynical book ever written about the life of the average person.


_________________
Powered by quotes since 7/25/10


zee
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 Jul 2007
Age: 44
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 1,292
Location: on a cloud

24 Jan 2008, 10:33 pm

I see what you're saying, but I don't think there's a lot of evidence to support that theory. The whole 'stages of life' arguement can be applied to almost any story; ie people and things change with time.
IMO, Samsa isn't the everyman across history, he's the everyman of his time, which is defined by the rise of industry. He is the workhorse of his family. The fact that he has to be up before dawn every day, that he has to go to all the right houses and can't miss his trains, the fact that he's never been sick before, all point to him leading an automated life. Meanwhile, his parents and sister don't turn into insects because they have a bit more freedom, and therefore more variation in life. Ie, they are alive, thinking and feeling (which is the purpose of the end where the sister stretches herself in the sun), while he might as well be a robot; his life would be the same.
Being a salesman, a factory worker, or a clerk like Kafka was, they all fall into the same category. It is repetitive work that doesn't require thinking or feeling or skill of any sort, other than what you're 'programmed' to do.



Shabobcat
Emu Egg
Emu Egg

User avatar

Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Age: 38
Gender: Female
Posts: 6
Location: Australia

27 Jan 2008, 1:40 am

zee wrote:
He is the workhorse of his family. The fact that he has to be up before dawn every day, that he has to go to all the right houses and can't miss his trains, the fact that he's never been sick before, all point to him leading an automated life. Meanwhile, his parents and sister don't turn into insects because they have a bit more freedom, and therefore more variation in life. Ie, they are alive, thinking and feeling (which is the purpose of the end where the sister stretches herself in the sun), while he might as well be a robot; his life would be the same.
Being a salesman, a factory worker, or a clerk like Kafka was, they all fall into the same category. It is repetitive work that doesn't require thinking or feeling or skill of any sort, other than what you're 'programmed' to do.

Samsas programming wasn't for repeditivness it was for service of his family, he was very much the workhorse which required repetitivness and subservience resulting in bugification, instead of recognising the impact of the role they had placed him in and bringing him into the light they react with terror and shame, further framing and defining his experience for him, this is especially evident with the borders reactions, they were initially delighted with his novelty, saw him as somthing rare and unique, only after seeing his families shame towards him did they react with disgust and feel offence at his presense, experience of the unkown/unfamiliar is governed by the expected/prevailing societal response. Sound familiar?



Helek_Aphel
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 1 Nov 2007
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 353

27 Jan 2008, 7:11 pm

I'm going to read it soon as part of a group project.
I'm looking forward to it.



zee
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 Jul 2007
Age: 44
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 1,292
Location: on a cloud

27 Jan 2008, 7:19 pm

Shabobcat wrote:
zee wrote:
He is the workhorse of his family. The fact that he has to be up before dawn every day, that he has to go to all the right houses and can't miss his trains, the fact that he's never been sick before, all point to him leading an automated life. Meanwhile, his parents and sister don't turn into insects because they have a bit more freedom, and therefore more variation in life. Ie, they are alive, thinking and feeling (which is the purpose of the end where the sister stretches herself in the sun), while he might as well be a robot; his life would be the same.
Being a salesman, a factory worker, or a clerk like Kafka was, they all fall into the same category. It is repetitive work that doesn't require thinking or feeling or skill of any sort, other than what you're 'programmed' to do.

Samsas programming wasn't for repeditivness it was for service of his family, he was very much the workhorse which required repetitivness and subservience resulting in bugification, instead of recognising the impact of the role they had placed him in and bringing him into the light they react with terror and shame, further framing and defining his experience for him, this is especially evident with the borders reactions, they were initially delighted with his novelty, saw him as somthing rare and unique, only after seeing his families shame towards him did they react with disgust and feel offence at his presense, experience of the unkown/unfamiliar is governed by the expected/prevailing societal response. Sound familiar?


No, it doesn't sound familiar. Samsa's family were horrified at the change in him right from the begining; it was only the housekeeper who saw him as a sort of novelty.