Joy Division

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There's now a Cure discussion thread, so I see no harm in a topic devoted to

JOY DIVISION

Discuss



NB Please don't post a long amorous thread claiming your worship for Joy Division if, like too many 'fans', the only song you have heard by them is 'Love will Tear us Apart'.

All I know about Joy Division is that they are referenced in Gilmore Girls 4th season and Duncvis loves them

I have the following JD discs:
Substance (CD)
Still (vinyl)
Unknown Pleasures (vinyl)
Closer (vinyl)
Both Peel Sessions (vinyl)

My favorite songs are
Dead Souls
Day of the Lords
She's Lost Control (Substance mix)
The Eternal
Decades
Twenty-Four Hours
Isolation
Atrocity Exhibition
New Dawn Fades
Love Will Tear Us Apart
Ceremony
Transmission

First heard them when I was 17. Went out and bought Still the next week (as well as 17 Seconds and Faith by The Cure). My last year in high school--this'll give you an idea what kind of year it was--about all I listened to was Joy Division, The Doors, The Cure, Talking Heads and King Crimson.


I still find it hard to believe that Joy Division's albums were reissued by a label started by Quincy Jones.

What's your fav album/complilation?

My fav 10 songs (there are very few I don't like)

Disorder
Insight
New Dawn Fades
Interzone
I Remember Nothing
Dead Souls
Isolation
Heart and Soul
Digital

Though I will probably be forever editing that list as my favourites never cease o change

Joy Divisions fans should try and see the film '24 Hour Party People'

I know I would find Ian Curtis' suicide scene too disturbing. I'll pass.



Thanks for starting this thread. Screw the Cure. I love Joy Division. I've been listening to them since 1984. They music is evocative, mystical, art. They have been a huge infleunce on me. I have watched this band develop into some bizarre phenome over the years, which I find a little alienating - every fan think they understand the mind of Ian Curtis. I prefer that he was a bit mysterious, I doubt he understood himself very well. I doubt anyone did.

Finding out about Ian Curtis' epilepsy was very enlightening to me - that was well before I knew about AS, I understood there was some parallel between his epilepsy and whatever the hell was worng with me. I suspect that in addition to being epileptic, he may have been mildly autistic. His bandmates have talked about the "dark side" of Ian, where he had meltdowns, social anxiety, depression, and difficulty with reciprocity. It seemed he drank a lot, and only when he drank he could be socialable. It also seems that he was largely unaware of how his more unconventional and eccentric behaviors were not "normal" and madee other people uncomfortable. His widow said he was moody and obsessive, and would withdraw into himself so much he was impossible to dedal with. It's hard to say from this evidence alone he was autistic, and not something else. But I think it's concievable, especially when you listen to some of his lyrics.

I'm constantly surprised by how many rock acts have fans who actually pay attention to their lyrics. It never surprised me that Joy Division had such fans though. It's just that their lyrics never said anything to me, and I used to listen to them a fair bit (back in the summer of '95). Then again, the vast majority of rock lyrics (and most poetry) says nothing to me either.
There's no doubt that Ian Curtis was, er, "4 real" as they say in rock 'n' roll. But there are plenty of other troubled souls out there to choose from.

Rarely while I was growing up up (with undiagnosed AS) did I hear a song that spoke to me about the particular difficulties I was having, although I did hear some. Plenty of artists claim to be misunderstood, but I guess it's just too dull (and a little bit pathetic) to write songs about having no friends and being unable to maintain conversations. Tourette's Syndrome, for example, is far more rock 'n' roll than Asperger's (at least it is to Nirvana and the Manic Street Preachers .. and maybe some others).

I've never met a Joy Division fan, but some of my peers were fans of Nirvana and the Manic Street Preachers. I often wondered what exactly these members of my peer group had to be so angst-ridden about. On the other hand, looking at what happened to Kurt Cobain and Richey Edwards made me feel guilty for being so self-absorbed.

But do I really need to hear rock songs about Nazi brothels and torture chambers to realise what a cruel world we live in?

By the way, is it true that the lyrics to Transmission are about the decline of pirate radio? It seems odd that someone can sing with such anguish about such a subject.

Ok, favourite Joy Division songs (from memory - it's been a long time) ...

1. Atmosphere
2. Heart and Soul
3. Disorder
4. Dead Souls
5. Decades

That's one of the last films I'd ever want to see.
As a Mancunian once memorably said to me at a Fallowfield bus stop, "club culture? Who gives a f**k?"

I have a lot to say about Joy Division, but now I'm so tired I'd articulate it all badly. Expect an exhaustively long post some time in the near future

With regards to what has been said about Ian Curtis, the crux point i'd like to make is this:
Manchester as a place, shaped enormously the attitudes and poetry written by Curtis and the music of the band. This is particularly true of the debut album Unknown Pleasures. If you listen to only one Joy Division record, I recommend that one above all the rest. In unknown pleasures they documented what life in an urban cityscape was all about. They decostruct the emotions, prejudices and anxiety that are inherent to the despair felt by someone who is growing up rapidly into a landscape of change and urban decay, young men who have lost control of their destiny. The music and lyrics defamiliarises any notions you thought you knew; solidarity, pride, brotherhood and self-preservations are philosophies torn apart. The sediment left is placed in an ether of production genius by their producer Martin Hannett, who built soundscapes that, I believe, perfectly paralell the processes we all hate; that of wasting an entire day searching for a feeling that you don't know that you know would give meaning to your life, of destroying yourself temporarily because you know you are the architect of your own downfalls and depressions. Living days as though you were dead....its a phenomenal, groundbreaking album that has a unique place in History. It is life in a city in the late 70s.
Now, of course, capitalism has changed the cities, the situations beyond recognition. But Joy Division's music will endure, because it is so absolute and ethereal as to be relevant to everyone; or should I say, those who have that germ of inner pain.
And in that huge reply I've only described a fifth of their songs...oh dear

My favorite compilation is Substance, partly because it includes the best tracks from the Warsaw EP and I prefer the version of "She's Lost Control" on there to the one on Unknown Pleasures.
I echo your impressions of the group and its lyrics. Ian Curtis was a poet who was unafraid to depict the twin Hells of the bleak, gray urban landscape of Manchester and his inner landscape of turmoil, confusion and disappointment. His battle with epilepsy caused him to feel damaged, inadequate. Through his lyrics he found a voice for his despondency and anger. Interestingly, "She's Lost Control" is not purely autobiographical; it is apparently mostly based on a young woman Curtis met when he briefly worked as a kind of youth counselor at a local clinic. She also had epilepsy, and in her struggle he saw his own mirrored.
There is a book published by an English house that talks extensively about the making of Unknown Pleasures, bookended by brief discussions of recordings prior to and after. I can't remember the author's name, either, but you can find it at Tower, Virgin, or any good record/bookstore.
Haven't seen 24 Hour Party People, but would like to. I've heard a lot of good things about director Michael Winterbottom's work, and I'd be interested to see how Ian Curtis and Martin Hannett are portrayed on-screen.

I should point out that Joy Division only appear in the early part of '24 Hour party people' The film primarily chronicles the career of Tony Wilson (factory records/the hacienda) and as much time (maybe more) is spent on the Happy Mondays.

Indeed she was. In fact if you listen closely to the substance mix of SLC and the extended ending, the lyrics seem to relate the woman's troubles to his whole life;

I could live a little better with the myths and the lies
When the darkness broke in, I just broke dowm and cried
I could live a little in a wider line
When the change is gone, when the urge is gone
To lose control, when here we come



Both are very good, particularly Martin Hannett. But his activities with Joy Division are limited to only one scene. John Simm is equally good as Bernard Sumner.
(as psych suggested)

...currently downloading the discography - cant wait

I think my favourite Joydivision song is 'No Love Lost', and as far angst ridden singers go I personally think he is much more revelavent than Kurt Cobain.
Curtis seemed a much more extreme personality, and I think this is perhaps because of the extreme environment which he inhabited.
In Twenty Four Hour Party people he is portrayed quite well. The band members usally attest that he in realitty wasn't as morbid as is usally made out and I think the skill is that most truly depressed people can hide it quite well from their contemparies.

Am I truly depressed as I seem then old friend?

Also its worth mentioning(to those who are less aware of Joy Division in context) that songs like 'No Love Lost', 'Warsaw', 'Leaders of Men', 'Failures' and (to a lesser extent) 'Ice Age', 'The Kill', 'Walked in Line' constitute their earliest, less cerebral work and as such are worthy of comparison with other punk groups of the late 70s
I'd still recommend Unknown Pleasures as a starting point though