how the hell do you even have a conversation with girls?

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You'd think it's like how you talk with your male friends or anybody else, but with more goofiness. It really isn't, though. I don't think I've ever been beyond being acquaintances or colleagues with a girl in my entire life and I'm nearing 22. It's beginning to frustrate and depress me some now, lol. I always figured I'd have a girlfriend by university, but here I am almost a senior, and I've got nothing.

I guess the whole point is to really talk about nothing (most of it is nonverbal anyways, right?). That's something I'm horrible at with either sex. I can't talk about totally random things. Even with girls I seem to have a lot of common interests with, I still can't talk for more than a few minutes. I have a bad feeling I'm deaf and blind to something here.

I sympathize. I really do.

I myself don't understand small talk, flirting, innuendo's, etc. Just doesn't make logical sense to me.

I have found that avoiding people in general except when necessary has helped me a lot in existing. My stress level is lower, and I can focus on whatever I need to do. However, I don't recommend this for you.

How do you talk to women you ask? Have you ever observed other people in conversation? Do you listen to what they ask each other, how they respond, and answer? (That doesn't sound very good idea, does it?)

Well, I know there are some knowledgeable folks on this topic here, hopefully one of them will respond to this.

Yea, I've done a bit of observation. The devil seems to be in the small details (prosody, eye contact, facial expressions, gestures, the way you carry yourself etc) and spontaneity.

I do the avoidance trick myself, too. For instance, a few weeks ago, I made a good impression on this cute chick in one of my classes. I was actually small-talking a bit, making her laugh, etc. It was all in this sort of formal context (physiology lab), though, and it was the first time I actually talked to her. That's the only time I can make any sort head way. Once I bumped into her while walking to another class, she looked like she wanted to shoot the s**t with me, but I took off after saying hi and asking what we had for homework, because I hated the thought of blanking out and putting myself in an awkward situation for the millionth time.

yeah, I understand about how females switch all the f*****g time to other subjects and other people. I think it's not just Autistics who complain about it.

EDIT: There's also the environment. If they're in a party with groups it WILL be harder than if it's a "one-on-one" thing (or she is in a hallway/building/etc but can't/won't talk to others as she's talking to you or she's surrounded by strangers). Depending on whether she's social n said environment, etc.

Though you might get nervous in extended "one-on-one" conversation. Why not go to a place/do a think you enjoy (Sorry for the stereotypes, but for example Sci-fi Conventions, Anime Conventions, etc. Meet like-minded females there )

Yeah, it definitely isn't just autistics that complain about it, but somehow NTs manage. The problem is way bigger than just talking to girls, though, I think. It seems like you need to at least become established in some circle of friends and start talking to girls outside of an academic or professional environment. Being a commuter transfer student I have zero friends at my university, and barely know anybody outside of the 3 people that work in my advisor's lab. My relationship with these folks is basically at a colleague level, because I don't talk to them about anything besides cognitive science or other nerdy things.

edit:

As an aside, does anybody know if there is any psychological research on this facet of Asperger's? You'd think social psychologists would be all over Asperger's in this case.

The question is, how illogical are you willing to act to get a date?

If you want to get a date, take every file you have in your head about logical conversation paradigms, and throw them out the window. Observe what other people do and say, take note of the illogical nuances and lower yourself to their level. You have Aspergers, which makes you a natural simulation computer. Use your logic and memory to emulate their actions.

If you object morally to partaking in illogical conversation and lowering yourself to their level to get a date, then have fun figuring out a better way.

It's not about what you can and can't do, it's about what you're willing to do to get everything you want.

Hey, I'm a transfer student at a commuter school (no friends yet). And I'm also a cognitive science major. Exciting! Sorry I don't have any really useful advice; I don't know how to talk to girls and I am one. I would suggest not envisioning the worst when you have the opportunity for something good to happen.

My sisters and I are either very aspie-like or somewhere on the spectrum, and we do this constantly. . . interrupt each other to talk about something else. Unlike most people, though, we also randomly jump back to what we were saying, and are able to remember threads from awhile back and follow through. . . It gets pretty confusing sometimes for other people to listen to us.

That said, other girls also often have a weird social bonding thing going on which we are seldom if ever a part of. I remember reading about it when I was a kid, and having sort of a sense of it going on around me--I was certainly enough of a social outcast. . . but I never really got it, at all, till an incident that happened recently.

I was in the park with my sister's (Very AS) son, a brilliant and charming child I'm exceedingly fond of. He was sort of examining various pieces of playground equipment. On one of these, there were a couple of girls not too far from his age, apparently attached to some family's large gathering that was taking place in a nearby pavilion. He climbed on the thing for a minute or two while I stood by, slightly awkward, carefully avoiding interaction with the other kids. Just as he was climbing out to leave, apparently finding it too crowded for his liking, the older of the girls tried to introduce herself to him, but he didn't make eye contact and just kept moving away. I had smiled at her when we first approached the piece of equipment, and had been conversing with my nephew. It was obvious that he had heard her; I called to him that he could have said something back, and then smiled at her and said something along the lines of "yeah, that's my nephew, he's a little odd."

At this juncture, the weirdest thing happened; she gave me this consipiritorial, knowing smile, and nodded back at the pavilion, saying something like, "I understand." I can't emphasize enough how strange the whole thing is; a little body language, the right circumstances, and suddenly there's this tacit "us girls have to stick together," sisterhood/kinship/bonding thing going on. Two seconds, and I was in. It makes no sense.

If only I'd figured out how to tap into that same thing when I was ten. .

I still have no idea how it works, just that it often happens. So friggen weird.

Still, there do seem to be plenty of us who are fairly straightforward, socially, especially for the purposes of basic conversation. . . no need to overly generalize. . .

Language is not by it's nature "logical," not in a clean way; it is not "lowering one's self" to use it in a complex, colloquial, and socially nuanced way.

That's a good point. In fact in a way it's my point. From the point of view of an Autistic, spectrum dependant of course, language can be and often is used in a logical way. I'd say that's alot of the problem right there. An Autistic mind can potentially have a vast vocabulary and flawless grammar, and communicate a point effieciently and concisely. The problem is, "normal" communication is corrupt, and by its nature inefficient. I'd say going from a vast and efficient lexicon to "nuanced" corrupt dialect is "lowering one's self". It's still necessary to communicate with the majority of society.

Much like a computer. A computer communicates in value based Binary. Vastly more effiecient than human speech, a computer communicates to each component an amount of information in a second that it would take several hours for a human to say. Yet the computer must ultimately display information on its monitor in human dialect. It is lowering itself to our level, but it must do that in order to fulfil its ultimate purpose.

Not so.

A computer is vastly more efficient at communicating numerical values, but the things communicated in social discourse are far more subtle; that cleanness becomes a disadvantage, because in it strips our language of its nuance, richness, and yes, much of its meaning. It is less efficient because that "efficiency" looses data.

You seem to vastly underestimate the massive quantity of data represented by that "flawed" grammar, inefficient word choice, and the complex interactions of body language, facial gesture, and even breathing patterns. If one only wishes to communicate a text, the kind of "efficiency" you refer to is, in fact, efficiency. To access that wealth of subtexts, however, would often take several times as many clean, logical, efficient phrases as well chosen colloquial ones full of inefficient pauses and interuptions.

And it does! That's the struggle involved in fitting in with a neurotypical conversation. A neurotypical intentionally corrupts normal language to put across multi-layered intentionality. Conversely, your average Aspie will simply add another sentence for every new point. The efficiency gained with the transmission of the information is lost in the time it takes to say it. The information is cleaner, but it takes much longer to say it. Much like the aforementioned computer monitor scenario. Sort of.

You see, I agree with you that Neurotypical conversation contains more information, but I disagree that you aren't lowering your standards to partake in it. To that end, it's a matter of opinion. Nevertheless, I am in total agreement of your point.

Hmn. . . I suppose it seems to me that what you consider to be a corruption of language I, I consider to be language. . . I don't think stripped down technical speech is "normal".

I guess it is a thing that you learn. Sometime it is easier with a chatty lady. I mange to have a 5 hour conversation with a girl on my last date. And I consider myself an extreme aspie case.

I don't see it as necessarily lowering myself to any level in reality, but perhaps in my own mind, yes.

Interesting points here. Like anything in my life, it seems like I'm going to have to direct a considerable amount of attention to learning how to overcome this. I think I pretty much know what I have to do :\, but the details of it elude me. The details probably aren't even consciously learned, anyways.

Talking is not the f*****g issue. Anyone can talk, they aren't some god, they are just people like you and me. Girls tell me I just need to open up, but other than that I'm fine. Well that doesn't help me much. I can tell you one thing though, from my limited and ret*d social knowledge. Don't f*****g talk AT someone. If you don't have anything to say, don't say it. For God's sake don't talk at her for an hour about your interests. I mean most girls know I'm a goof ball, but some girl will like that one day. Make small talk, get her to talk about herself. Then at least try, and ask her out. I mean I've been homeschooled for 12 years, I've not really had much experience. Although I haven't gotten a date with the job, I have learned some social skills. It's pretty easy for me to make friends with other guys, if they aren't really cliquey, or just jerks. I just kinda follow along and that works well for me. I always have had a feeling, that I'm going to meet my first girlfriend in college through a set up date. (as a lot do, including my grandparents).