relationships, closeness and distance

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I've been trying to write this for days, but I keep getting sidetracked with the game threads... so I thought, to celebrate my 100th post, I might actually try and write something useful, instead of the usual silly stuff and failed attempts at humour. I'm sure one serious post in 100 won't kill me. so I've been thinking about relationships, and my confusing experiences of them. it's been almost a year since I gave up on that area of life, it was just so confusing I needed a break to sort my head out. only I am no less confused now. sorry if this post is also confusing, I am just thinking out loud. (treat anything I ask as a topic for discussion rather than specific questions to be answered)

what I kind-of want to ask is this: what do the concepts of relationships and friendships mean to you? and what's your experience been of them, particularly when it comes to emotional closeness and distance? I remember before I'd had a 'proper' romantic relationship I was so lonely I prayed to god (that's really really bad for me!) to get into a relationship... then when I was in one I was praying to god to get me out of it!! !! ! it was so emotionally close I hated it. my own emotions are oversensitive enough already without having someone else 'love' me and making things emotionally overcomplicated. it made me neurotic.

I made some friends after that, it was easier but still sometimes it would get me neurotic. especially when friends (as they do) share their problems - I would get worried and anxious about them, on top of my own problems. it doesn't help that I'm a highly 'empathic' person, only my sense of empathy (like most of my senses) is oversensitive, so I feel others' pain more strongly than they are experiencing it themselves! which is silly I know, but there really isn't anything I can do about it. so again it's too 'close'.

if you had the freedom to define your own classifications for interpersonal interactions, how would you define them (or would you make any classifications at all?) ... suppose there's no pre-existing society, no social rules and norms, no already defined concepts of "romance" or "relationship" or "friendship"... I know I tend to treat everyone exactly the same - whether I know them intimately or if it's the first time I've met them or if they're in a position of authority, I treat everyone with casual familiarity. it's partly a survival mechanism - basically I don't know who I know and who I don't know. and where on earth is that boundary between 'friends' and 'something more than friends'???? I don't see it (and I've been made to feel like I'm some kind of moral failure because of that, or people make attributions)... to me it's all someone else's classifications, it doesn't seem to reflect my own emotional experience of interpersonal interaction. 'Friends' already feels over-intense and extremely intimate.

I met an aspie at an autism conference once, we meant to keep in touch by email, which I did for a while with the usual struggle, then we lost touch. then by surprise we bumped into each other at another autism event, we ended up spending most of the afternoon chatting. we got into a conversation on this topic of friendship and interaction... turned out we both had similar difficulties with keeping in touch with people! so I asked her what would be the best arrangement for her, and she said ' just bumping into each other occasionally by accident like this!' in a way that would be ideal for me too.... just being able to enjoy a nice meaningful conversation with a familiar person when I was up to it, but not having to worry about them once they were out of sight, so it doesn't get too close. unfortunately it's not very practical, we live so far apart we wouldn't bump into each other by accident often enough.

I wish I could just be happy being single but I can't... it's too distant, the loneliness is killing me it's partly why I still live at home - I really need to be part of a family, yet our family isn't particularly close, so it's just nice... only mum and dad are getting old, so I really have to think about moving out yet getting involved in relationships is too neurotic and confusing, it's too close. and physically it's just as confusing, I really *need* physical closeness... but that gets too much, I need physical distance too... I just wish I could find some way of balancing it all.

Great post man. I've always wanted to reshape the way society does things. Here's how I'd have it:

Semi-friends - People you know, talk to less than once a day. Example: classmates you don't really know too well

Friends - People you joke around with, have a good time with, hang out. (Only normal one carries over)

Lover(s) - A single person whom you share a direct one-on-one emotional bond with.

Now, with the lovers thing, I'd really want it to be like this:

No "courtship" in normal terms, as in dating by going to restaraunts (I've got that eating in public places-phobia) or going to crowded places. A real date is just the two of us together, either at home or alone...say on a walk through the woods.

Really, the AS symbol of the puzzle piece is semi-symbolic to me in terms of a loving relationship. I feel that I'm half of a two piece puzzle, each piece having only ONE connection, so that each is giving and recieving 100%. I can't seem to find anyone who feels like me on that issue. =\

Fascinating post!

Here's how I define it:

Acquaintance - someone whose name you know, and whose face (if you're lucky! ) you'll recognize on the street. You've had at least one conversation with them. If you saw them sitting alone at a table during a lunch break, you could feasibly go sit down beside them. Silence is key here - neither person speaks unless they have something to say.

Coworker - someone you are polite to, regardless of their personality, for the express purpose of completing a business transaction. Mutually beneficial and 100% impersonal. Involves zero smalltalk - more like interfacing with a computer.

Buddy - a person whose company you enjoy, at specific times, for a specific purpose - but have no desire to deal with them outside of context. For example, other members of a D&D group, someone you go jogging with.

Ally - the people whom you can go to in any emotional state, and will come away feeling better. Maybe they don't yet know everything about yourself, but you're in the (highly exciting and enjoyable) process of revealing more little by little. Totally platonic, but spills over easily into sexual intimacy if both parties desire it. You would feel honestly sad if they died.

An ally is not discovered by progressively moving through the stages, starting with smalltalk between acquaintances - I think the tactic of randomly throwing conversation topics into the open until you find one the other person responds to is bizarre and unwieldy. Instead, allies are discovered by watching the person's interactions with others, reading any writing, blog, or creative work they've done, and seeing how they spend their time. That way you can discover a kindred spirit without any awkwardness, and immediately approach them on a topic you both will find fascinating.

You just described my current situation to a large extent. It IS pretty cool.

Enemy- some one who has earned 3 strikes in my head say, for bigotry, or for being overly stupid, or aggressive

Stranger- pretty obvious, I tend to try to ovoid these people

Acquaintance- any who will stop and say hi to me at a party or on the street whose name I don’t know

Friend- people who I will go to the parties of and talk to at the pub and who I know the name of.

Pack mates- the 5 or 6 people in my life who I want to always know, I go to there houses for no reason and talk about crap till the sun rises thease people help when needed no mater what

Stranger: Person I don't know.

More-than-stranger: Person I've talked to once or twice. Small chance of recognition if I see that person again.

Associate: Person I'd recognize but only talk to occasionally. Many classmates fit in this category, though most remain strangers through the end of the class.

Friend: Person I talk to somewhat often. Also person whose name I'd remember. Don't talk that much, and only talk about practical things (like "what did you do for this assignment", "what do you think about the new parking rules", etc).

Buddy: Person I hang out with. Talk is either practical or on topics that I'm not really interested in but talk about so I don't get left out, like sports. [Don't know anyone who fits in here anymore. They've either become close friends or I've lost touch.]

Close friend: Person who knows everything about me. I share everything, talk about more intimate stuff, and I usually don't bother trying to pay attention to what the other is thinking. (These people sometimes get bored with my conversations.)

Romantic interest: Usually a stranger or an associate, a female who I'm completely crazy for. What most people would call a crush. I'm actually pretty bad at choosing romantic interests, because I tend to go mostly for looks. I have no idea what kind of person would be compatible with me personality-wise.

Lover: I'll tell you what this is when I meet someone who fits into this category.

for me the most important classification stems from my mutism: People Who I Can Talk To and People Who I Can't Talk To. this is far more important than familiarity or status. to give an example, my father is a Person Who I Can't Talk To - not because I don't want to or because I don't like him, it's simply that whenever we try and talk, I can't seem to manage to speak reliably enough.

yet it sometimes happens that a complete stranger talks to me and I find it's easy for me to talk back reliably. I don't know why it should be like that but it is. I suppose that everybody finds some people easier to talk to than others, it's just much more extreme in me, so the most difficult 90% of people are hard enough for me to communicate with to make it completely impossible. but because of that, it does mean that being a Person I Can Talk To is a more important classification than anything like Friend, Family or Stranger!

I even get this on message boards, I find myself replying to the same people a lot - it's the same thing, I hope nobody finds it weird

I generally find people can't be catorgorised too easily, particularly as I try to assure that a catagory is all encompassing. But here it goes...

My aquatic listing. This list detmines their tendancy to interact with me.

Jellyfish: Spinless, arrogant or aggressive. These people dislike me (for whatever reason). I pity these individuals.

Fishes: Dullards, fools, waffle and meat puppets. This is most people, sadly. Often it's because I just don't know them and I dislike thinking of people like this. These people who, ultimately, just don't matter to me and I don't matter to them. When I have abandoned all hope for that person's redemption as a decent human being, they fall down to this level.

Eggs: Demi human, people why try but suck, friend of a friend, potentially a good person. This is the slot that people fall into when I just meet them. I may know them, and if our eyes meet and I recognise them I'll give then a friendly nod but they generally don't come up to talk to me.

Molusks: Friends of conveience, attatchments, accessories. These are the people that like me and talk to me, that I entertain (or find me entertaining) and appreciate my hospitality. They often like the attention I give them and my general accepting nature. These people seek out my company.

Treasures: Family (non-biologically), compatriots, brother/sisters in arms. These people are a very rare few. They trust me and I trust them. They respect me and I respect them. These people also seek out my company, but it is always welcome. These are the people that'd help me in any situation.


Now my desire to deal with them (note: these often change day to day):

Viruses: I don't want much contact with these types. These are the people I DON'T want to see. These people are NEVER 'Treasures'. But even Molusks often fall into here.

Enzymes: Indifference is the word. If I see them or not doesn't matter to me.

Anti-bodies: These are the people I WANT to see. If I go a week without contact I'll actually search them out. Perhaps just phone message to keep in contact but atleast SOMTHING. There are about three to five people whom fit here.


The only other factor to consider is respect. This is a list of things that modify my level of respect.

1) Judgemental.
If you try to judge me or anyone I simply will disregard your entire existance. You are in no place to make decisions on what another person does with their own life (provided it doesn't effect others).
If you are accepting then you have done well.

2) Individuality.
I'm not interested in knowing ten million of the same people at once. Forge your own personality.
Be unique. This interests me and proves that you are willing to think for yourself.

3) Creativity. (please note that it isn't about being ABLE to create, just trying is enough)
If you don't create you just consume and destroy. Your existance is stale. Learn an art! C'mon, you can do it!
Well done, you can express yourself. I appreciate all things made, and the people who made them, moreso.

4) Resolve.
I don't DISrespect those without conviction but it is a TRUE sign of self-respect. You must repect yourself first.
Determined? Ambitious? Good. Having dreams is a wonderful thing... Pursuing them is divine. (be assured to confer with number 5 though)

5) Selflessness and compassion.
Those who think of none other about themselves are to be ignored. I can't care about these people simply because they are already doing enough of that.
Just considering others is a redeeming trait in anyone. They say nice guys finish last, but that's only if they work by themselves. I try to be a testament to how much one person can achieve with kindess.

6) Self improvement (not just physically).
Once again, stasis is the enemy of enlightenment.
By growing we become better people. Humans have vast potential and you are at least TRYING to tap into that vast resivour of ability.

7) Open mind. (I know this closely ties to 'judgmental')
Fine. Close your mind to the infinite experiences. That is your choice to make. Not mine.
An open mind allows thourough exchange if concepts and ideas. It's our experiences that we measure our life in. Collect them with my blessings for I shall inqure about those that interest me and perhaps I shall emulate them.

Sexual contact.
This doen't truly belong here but I chose to put it here because, unlike most other people, sex just doesn't emotionally matter to me. As far as I'm concerned it should be as casual as a game of tennis on the weekend (with proper attention to health of course). Too much of society is focused on getting sex. People spend a lot of money getting the 'right' clothes, buying an 'impressive' car and being seen in the 'proper' place. People have even weathered physical abuse just for sex. It's unhealthy for society. Which is funny because it's the only excercise that some people get.

** As an edit to the post, it was pointed out that the intent behind this paragraph was obscure a best. To re-iterate: Many people have an extra catagory for individuals they are sexually intimate with. I do not and can't understand how this person means more to tems becasuse the "service" they render. Reading back on it I realise that I had completely meandered off point. Sorry.**


Well that's it for me. While I could continue talking, I'll stop now.
Thanks for plowing through my rambling.

Last edited by Quoth on 30 Nov 2005, 8:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

Hey, me too. That happens a lot to me.

For me, there are:

People I just know by name and/or face, and people I've met a few times but don't properly speaking know at all;

Acquaintances- just people I know from school or wherever, and will chat to in an impersonally polite and pleasant way;

Warm acquaintances- people I genuinely like, and whom I talk to quite a bit;

Friends- people I spend a lot of time with by preference, have inside jokes etc. with, am genuinely fond of, and actively want to go on knowing for as long as possible. I have one friend I'm actually close to, whom I feel I can trust and rely on, but in general I try to demand as little as possible of my friends in order to keep them as friends.

Nobody wants me around, so there are only two kinds of people. People I have to deal with, and people I don't. If my presence is forced on anyone, they will get pissy and violent. Caring for anyone only made things worse--for me anyway.

That doesn't leave any room for friends, no matter how casual.

I have become a lot less judgmental. I think that has more to do with my lack of pride than anything else however. It hasn't helped in terms of relationships; it wasn't my cocky attitude which was the core problem.

TheOrangeMage: For an NT (me) this sounds very nice:

Unfortunately, the traditional way of getting to know someone is through going out with them to public places. A public place is "safe," especially for women. My AS boyfriend and I weren't looking for another person. Neither of us wanted to get involved in the dating ritual. We simply got to know each other through the topics that we wrote about. We knew ABOUT each other and then starting writing TO each other, found things in common and wrote about a LOT of things.

I think there ARE people out there that share your feelings. They are just hard to find simply because the gene pool keeps getting murkier and murkier. LOL

I don't believe in having only ONE connection with only ONE other person. I'm not a religious person, but I would hope that the good Lord made more than one person for each of us, so that if we lost that person, we would be able to share our lives with another.

But I DO agree with giving 100%. In fact, I read somewhere that each person in a relationship should give 110% so on the days when one can/is only giving 90%, the relationship still has an average of 200% going for it.