Women and their desire for kids

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Io
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25 Jul 2008, 7:52 pm

LePetitPrince wrote:
Phasianoraptor_hirvisaloi wrote:
I find the idea of human reproduction pretty avoidable, partially because of the overpopulation that there already is and even stronger for the fact that my potential children would certainly inherit AS or at least its genes from me - with all its mental impairments. If someone in the future meets similar difficulty in life because of AS, I don't want to be responsible for it.

For these reasons, childlessness is to me more than just an adherence. It's a commitment over which I don't negotiate.


I just think like you. No need to spread more autism genes and Earth is already overpopulated by humans.


How many should be the limit?



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25 Jul 2008, 8:27 pm

I want a son or daughter of my own. Their first word would be "Xbox". Cute.



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25 Jul 2008, 9:29 pm

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These are not healthy attitudes! I can't believe that this is what motivates people, to have kids. Both of these statements have the phrase "I want" in them.


Very true. I guess the urge to breed is a primal drive that can be very difficult to logically explain, and people often don't take the time to consider all the consequences beforehand.

For example, that story in national news a little while back about the 17 girls at Gloucester High School in Massachusetts who made a "pregnancy pact", in which they all decided to try to get pregnant, have children, and mutually raise their babies together. Last I saw of that story on CNN, all 17 are now expecting children, and one of the fathers turned out to be a local homeless man who more or less just basically acted as a sperm donor.

Who can logically explain these things?



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25 Jul 2008, 9:38 pm

women in general want kids for the same reasons that men in general want kids. Why are better than half the guys that are interested in me a decade or more older than me, who have suddenly decide that they want to spawn?

I have known from the time that I realized that I would one day be capable of reproduction that I did not want to do so.



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25 Jul 2008, 9:53 pm

No_YOU_get_over_it wrote:
Motivate, as in pressure from outside oneself, sure. But an actual drive from within? Other than hormones (which are relatively easy to manipulate)? Not a clue.


The same reason a man has an erection, it is a built in response to hormones and genes. There is really no other reason for life but to reproduce its self, now is there.

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25 Jul 2008, 10:01 pm

I agree with you 100% on this Aspie1.However people are basically selfish and self-interested and this actually doesnt change simply because they become parents. I think that people have children because of their innate biological drive to reproduce and they will come up with all kinds of other reasons to try to justify it. The reasons given by Diamond_Head quite often DO factor into why people have kids. Many adults are dysfunctional and still have rather immature emotional needs that they havent outgrown since childhood.


Aspie1 wrote:
Diamond_Head wrote:
However, there are some outliers. I have a female friend who recently had a kid at 19, but always wanted one since she was around 16 years old, because she always wanted something to love her unconditionally and never leave her (she had a rough life when she was younger). In addition, a guy I used to work with wanted to have at least 3 or 4 sons because he has a "I want a miniature version of myself so I can teach him how to play sports, drive a car, etc etc etc" type mentality. Everybody has individual reasons.


8O 8O 8O :? :? These are not healthy attitudes! I can't believe that this is what motivates people, to have kids. Both of these statements have the phrase "I want" in them. The woman in this scenario wants to make someone fully dependent on her, which probably means that she won't give the child much independence. The kid will end up living at home at age 30. The man in this scenario wants to make someone in his image (playing God, perhaps?), which means that the child will probably be forced to do things he doesn't want to do. If the kid won't turn out athletic, <sarcasm>we all know what good relationship</sarcasm> that will be.

My recommendation to the people in question is to get a dog. The woman should get one of the lap dog breeds, so she can enjoy its loyalty and unconditional love. The man should get one of the active dog breeds, so he can enjoy its athletic skills and results from training. An average dog has the intellectual capacity of a 6-year-old child, which would fit these people's needs quite nicely. In addition, most dogs can communicate with humans on a decent level, so lack of companionship won't be an issue. But most importantly, dogs' emotions aren't complex enough to feel the toxic effects of codependency or manipulation.

The only reason to have a child should be a personal willingness to give one's time, money, effort, and love to another human being; and this should be the most important reason. The reasons shown above only lower a child---a living, breathing, sentient human being---to the status of a pet, or worse, personal property that can be molded to one's wishes. I realize that I sound like I'm attacking, but the selfishness in the bolded statements really hit a nerve.



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25 Jul 2008, 10:09 pm

Diamond_Head wrote:
Quote:
These are not healthy attitudes! I can't believe that this is what motivates people, to have kids. Both of these statements have the phrase "I want" in them.


Very true. I guess the urge to breed is a primal drive that can be very difficult to logically explain, and people often don't take the time to consider all the consequences beforehand.

For example, that story in national news a little while back about the 17 girls at Gloucester High School in Massachusetts who made a "pregnancy pact", in which they all decided to try to get pregnant, have children, and mutually raise their babies together. Last I saw of that story on CNN, all 17 are now expecting children, and one of the fathers turned out to be a local homeless man who more or less just basically acted as a sperm donor.

Who can logically explain these things?


actually, after the sensastional news went away, they found out that the girls did not know each other until AFTER they had become pregnant and THEN they bonded together to help each other. . . but that doesn't sell advertising, so they dropped it.

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25 Jul 2008, 11:09 pm

I am female and I don't want children. This isn't a case of "I'm not sure if I want them" it's a case of "I definitely don't want them". I value my career to much to risk it for the sake of them, and I like my alone time far too much to have it ruined by a little person who is absolutely dependent on me.
The issue broke up my last relationship: he wanted children.


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25 Jul 2008, 11:22 pm

Parenthood is over-hyped in our culture. I think that a lot people (both men and women) are encouraged to become parents because it's seen as a kind of "rite of passage" thing... as though you won't be a "complete" person until you have children. But I don't agree with that, and I have no desire to have children.

sinsboldly wrote:
actually, after the sensastional news went away, they found out that the girls did not know each other until AFTER they had become pregnant and THEN they bonded together to help each other. . . but that doesn't sell advertising, so they dropped it.

That figures... :roll: Can't trust the news these days, can you?



Phasianoraptor_hirvisaloi
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26 Jul 2008, 1:55 am

Io wrote:
LePetitPrince wrote:
Phasianoraptor_hirvisaloi wrote:
I find the idea of human reproduction pretty avoidable, partially because of the overpopulation that there already is and even stronger for the fact that my potential children would certainly inherit AS or at least its genes from me - with all its mental impairments. If someone in the future meets similar difficulty in life because of AS, I don't want to be responsible for it.

For these reasons, childlessness is to me more than just an adherence. It's a commitment over which I don't negotiate.


I just think like you. No need to spread more autism genes and Earth is already overpopulated by humans.


How many should be the limit?


Two billion is the upper limit for a human population that can avoid environmental problems, but to be honest, it'd better be just a fraction of even that. A hundred million or so.



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26 Jul 2008, 2:09 am

Cyberman wrote:
Parenthood is over-hyped in our culture. I think that a lot people (both men and women) are encouraged to become parents because it's seen as a kind of "rite of passage" thing... as though you won't be a "complete" person until you have children. But I don't agree with that, and I have no desire to have children.

sinsboldly wrote:
actually, after the sensastional news went away, they found out that the girls did not know each other until AFTER they had become pregnant and THEN they bonded together to help each other. . . but that doesn't sell advertising, so they dropped it.

That figures... :roll: Can't trust the news these days, can you?


Well Cyberman, if it werent than we would become like Europeans who have effectively stopped having children and their populations are in rapid decline in the since that more Europeans die each year than are born. If they dont do something about it they'll go extinct. BTW Who_Am_I, if you dont wish to have children thats Your perogative and you certainly dont have to :wink: . Here in the US we have plenty of women and a large(enough)population that it isnt necessary that every single fertile woman have children since Most women are doing so already.



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26 Jul 2008, 4:34 am

If everyone had your attitude then none of us would even be here on a messageboard.

Also, who better to parent an autistic child than someone who understands? People on the spectrum and those not on the spectrum can be good or bad parents. It all depends on your attitude about it and if you have no compassion and no patience then by all means get yourself neutured. Problem solved.



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26 Jul 2008, 5:49 am

Quote:
Parenthood is over-hyped in our culture. I think that a lot people (both men and women) are encouraged to become parents because it's seen as a kind of "rite of passage" thing... as though you won't be a "complete" person until you have children.


QFT. I think in the media, espeacially with celebrities like Britney Spears..pft, you see so much of it. Also, not to sound anti-religious, I also can't help but wonder if culture plays a big role in it. Not to sound anti-religious but I find churches or mono-theism when it comes to the emphasis to have a family. I think this trend is somewhat slowing down but I still see it in slogans.

Of course it's going to be in every creature's instinct to procreate, it's just that we live in a civilization now where we want to be careful as children are not raised in poverty or in abusive homes which is sadly something you can't control. I think poverty or low wage is a huge factor. You can't making a living off minimum wage or plain ole hard work where I live. You have to spend tons of money just to get enrolled in college and some of us have to work while going to college. Add children into the equation and that equals more responsibility as it does financial stress.

I luv children so I hope this post isn't coming off as the anti-children act. I just believe it's wiser to be prepaired financially and emotionally before you decide to have children. I've seen so many kids taken away from their families because of drugs and some of the conditions they were living in.


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26 Jul 2008, 7:32 am

Haliphron wrote:

BTW Who_Am_I, if you dont wish to have children thats Your perogative and you certainly dont have to :wink: . .


:)
It's good to see someone who doesn't act like there's something wrong with me for not wanting them, or tell me that I'll change my mind. Those are the usual reactions.


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26 Jul 2008, 7:55 am

Who_Am_I wrote:
Haliphron wrote:

BTW Who_Am_I, if you dont wish to have children thats Your perogative and you certainly dont have to :wink: . .


:)
It's good to see someone who doesn't act like there's something wrong with me for not wanting them, or tell me that I'll change my mind. Those are the usual reactions.



I've always believed it's personal choice, I wanted kids and had them. I'm not going to look down on anyone for not having kids, but I do feel bad that there is no way for them to experience things firsthand and all to be able to make sure for those that are "undecided" if it's right or not right for them.



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27 Jul 2008, 1:32 am

I don't really understand the question. I am not trying to be flippant, but it seems you answered you own question by asking it. It's probably the same reason you want a girlfriend. The end result notwithstanding, every species that inhabits the earth (and more than likely, other places as well) have a biological drive for (at least) the act of procreation. It would stand to reason that humans are no exception, but there are differences between a human and a tree, or mammals and some lizards. A tree engages in the act of reproduction by flinging pollen (Crude, I know, but I am keeping it brief) into the air (yes, sometimes, bees are involved) and hoping for the best, whereas a human reproduction is a bit more, uh, cumbersome. I am not a fan of children, but that is not to say I don't have a paternal instinct. When I see the baby sea turtles furiously scuttling to the ocean on TV, my greatest wish is to be there and gently toss as many as I can into the water. (It is not that I don't like seagulls, but, come on, they eat garbage as well as baby sea turtles! Show me cute garbage!)
So, what I am trying to say is: unless you are looking for something platonic with a female, the idea that you are some how different from the grand group of females that "want" children is a smidge misguided.