Ode to Nice Guys

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A friend forwarded this to me last night, and it fits so well with some things that have come up on this board. One particular paragraph of importance is in bold.

Ode to the Nice Guys
This rant was written for the Wharton Undergraduate Journal

This is a tribute to the nice guys. The nice guys that finish last, that never become more than friends, that endure hours of whining and bitching about what as*holes guys are, while disproving the very point. This is dedicated to those guys who always provide a shoulder to lean on but restrain themselves to tentative hugs, those guys who hold open doors and give reassuring pats on the back and sit patiently outside the changing room at department stores. This is in honor of the guys that obligingly reiterate how cute/beautiful/smart/funny/sexy their female friends are at the appropriate moment, because they know most girls need that litany of support. This is in honor of the guys with open minds, with laid-back attitudes, with honest concern. This is in honor of the guys who respect a girl’s every facet, from her privacy to her theology to her clothing style.

This is for the guys who escort their drunk, bewildered female friends back from parties and never take advantage once they’re at her door, for the guys who accompany girls to bars as buffers against the rest of the creepy male population, for the guys who know a girl is fishing for compliments but give them out anyway, for the guys who always play by the rules in a game where the rules favor cheaters, for the guys who are accredited as boyfriend material but somehow don’t end up being boyfriends, for all the nice guys who are overlooked, underestimated, and unappreciated, for all the nice guys who are manipulated, misled, and unjustly abandoned, this is for you.

This is for that time she left 40 urgent messages on your cell phone, and when you called her back, she spent three hours painstakingly dissecting two sentences her boyfriend said to her over dinner. And even though you thought her boyfriend was a chump and a jerk, you assured her that it was all ok and she shouldn’t worry about it. This is for that time she interrupted the best killing spree you’d ever orchestrated in GTA3 to rant about a rumor that romantically linked her and the guy she thinks is the most repulsive person in the world. And even though you thought it was immature and you had nothing against the guy, you paused the game for two hours and helped her concoct a counter-rumor to spread around the floor. This is also for that time she didn’t have a date, so after numerous vows that there was nothing “serious” between the two of you, she dragged you to a party where you knew nobody, the beer was awful, and she flirted shamelessly with you, justifying each fit of reckless teasing by announcing to everyone: “oh, but we’re just friends!” And even though you were invited purely as a symbolic warm body for her ego, you went anyways. Because you’re nice like that.

The nice guys don’t often get credit where credit is due. And perhaps more disturbing, the nice guys don’t seem to get laid as often as they should.
And I wish I could logically explain this trend, but I can’t. From what I have observed on campus and what I have learned from talking to friends at other schools and in the workplace, the only conclusion I can form is that many girls are just illogical, manipulative b*****s. Many of them claim they just want to date a nice guy, but when presented with such a specimen, they say irrational, confusing things such as “oh, he’s too nice to date” or “he would be a good boyfriend but he’s not for me” or “he already puts up with so much from me, I couldn’t possibly ask him out!” or the most frustrating of all: “no, it would ruin our friendship.” Yet, they continue to lament the lack of datable men in the world, and they expect their too-nice-to-date male friends to sympathize and apologize for the men that are jerks. Sorry, guys, girls like that are beyond my ability to fathom. I can’t figure out why the connection breaks down between what they say (I want a nice guy!) and what they do (I’m going to sleep with this complete ass now!). But one thing I can do, is say that the nice-guy-finishes-last phenomenon doesn’t last forever. There are definitely many girls who grow out of that train of thought and realize they should be dating the nice guys, not taking them for granted. The tricky part is finding those girls, and even trickier, finding the ones that are single.

So, until those girls are found, I propose a toast to all the nice guys. You know who you are, and I know you’re sick of hearing yourself described as ubiquitously nice. But the truth of the matter is, the world needs your patience in the department store, your holding open of doors, your party escorting services, your propensity to be a sucker for a pretty smile. For all the crazy, inane, absurd things you tolerate, for all the situations where you are the faceless, nameless hero, my accolades, my acknowledgement, and my gratitude go out to you. You do have credibility in this society, and your well deserved vindication is coming.

Not my words!

Feel free to rip it apart.

You know something...thats a very fair posting. I always liked nice wonderful guys, and sometimes I would wonder "Am I alone here?" My daughter is marrying such a guy, she cannot understand why a woman would say, "Oh he's to nice to date" but we have both heard that. And in our opinion those women deserve what they get. Nice guys should not waste their time on such women. I say good posting, and a smack to all the women who would rather date a jerk, who would break her heart, than a man who she can dote on him and he can dote on her. I tell my daughter...your man treats you like a queen...YOU BETTER TREAT HIM LIKE A KING.

I agree completely with that post as well, though I know where it comes from in your mind, and that part I don't agree with. There are nice girls out there as well who can't find nice guys.

THANK you.

I try to be a nice guy (even though my strong opinions and insecurities sometimes prevent me) and it's really bothersome how girls only seem interested in me when I'm at my worst--when I'm least interested in myself. When I actually act mature and sweet, then I'm taken for granted and not cared for. It's so...odd.

In my mind it comes from bitterness from years of rejection, but it does apply to another recent post of mine that involves certain statistics Or did I miss something?

There are certainly many nice girls out there who can't find nice guys, and perhaps that is why some fall for the jerks. I'm trying harder to find the nice girls, and yes, you do have to dig to find them. There used to be a time when I was prejudiced against girls who smoke, and/or have one or two facial piercings. I was also less likely to be interested in someone with a few extra pounds back five years ago. Now, at university, I have found that most of the girls who smoke are really mature, wonderful people, and the same goes for those with piercings. One of the girls I'm interested in right now is a little heavier than average, but she's still very beautiful on both the inside and outside.

These fine folks tend to be more average people that have experienced turmoil and various problems in their lives, and have turned out to be very mature individuals. They tended to be immature in high school but a few years can make centuries of difference. The other, less mature girls out there are abundent in the snobby rich town I come from, and unfortunately I have had to endure many fine b*tches from there who have perfect lives and have everything they ever wanted.

I saw this once before, and I feel the same way. It applies to me soooo much, except that I don't really have any female friends at all.

That is very well-written!

ELLCIM,

Thank-you for sharing. That was me to a tee in my pre-AS revelation days andI used to meet those kinds of girls all the time.

Nowadays I have no hang-ups asking those choke-artists of girls I still come across: "What do you see in this guy?" You'd be amazed at some of the answers that come up.

My response? I just tell her flat out: "I leave it to you and 'him' to settle your differences in whatever way you see fit. Talk to me about everything and anything that you're into or that you like, but leave your life with that goon out of mine. That's not my department."

Very effective

Being a nice guy and getting rejected a lot as a result, I developed a coping strategy. I date girls at the low end of the attractiveness range, which is 4 or below out of 10. Those girls seem to sincerely like nice guys. (Trying to date anyone that NT guys find attractive backfired numerous times.) So if you're willing to sacrifice glamour, this may be an option for you.

Not an option for me, because there are girls I find attractive that NTs don't go for.

What kinds of things do they tell you?

Serissa might be interested.

You missed nothing. It was the statistics I was referring to

I kind of appreciate, this post, but at the same time, it's like 'why are you celebrating being used?' I have been the nice guy plenty of times, and it totally sucks, and I was a foolish coward acting the way I did. There should definately not be an Ode to the person I was being at that time. It was a waste of my prescious, unfathomably powerful mental energy. Whatever, I guess it's just the way of the world. I just really don't like being taken for ride into a small village in central europe and being promised a pony and getting nothing but a mutated lamb. I'm sick of it.

This has been re-posted on many forums, and to be honest every time I read it I think to myself that it is sad people don't know the difference between being nice and being a doormat. The guys described in this aren't nice, they are spineless. A nice person doesn't mean that they allow women to use them or to treat them like second class citizens. People should quit glorifying this misconception, women do like nice men, however a guy with no self respect, self esteem or personality isn't appealling. (the "nice"guys described in this don't have any of those things)

Well then it appears boys need taught early on how to be nice, but not a doormat? And a little self-esteem? (Everyone needs that to some extent really)

But who's gonna teach them? Thier fathers are as clueless as the boy is sometimes!

While I want to agree with this article, the fact is that it sounds too much like self-pity to be taken seriously. I definitely can relate to feeling like a nice guy in a world of jerks, but real nice guys don't go on and on about how nice they are and expect women to love them in return. Real nice guys are nice because it's the right thing to do, not because it'll " get them laid ".

If a guy masks his true intentions behind a faux veil of niceness, is he really any better than the jerks he's allegedly defined himself in opposition of?