Moral dilemma involving a bipolar person

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I have a situation where your input might really help. It's about a girl I just started dating. Like the title of this thread indicates, she has bipolar condition (I won't say "disorder" out of respect for her); she told me during our first date. It's unusual for someone to be that upfront, but I appreciate the honesty. Anyway, go on reading the whole story, and see what you can suggest. This is a long post, but please bear with me. If you must, you can skip down to the third-last paragraph (the one with the numbered options).

I met the girl on a dating site. She seemed quite into me from the first message I sent. We exchanged a couple of messages on that site, then talked on AOL Instant Messenger for a week or so, then on the phone for a few days. Finally, we scheduled a day to meet up. (The new school of thought is meeting someone off the internet rather quickly, as opposed to chatting for many weeks, as it was done in the 1990's, when online dating first emerged.) I met her at a Starbucks two blocks from her apartment. She doesn't own a car, but I guess she still didn't feel comfortable with me coming to her home just yet.

We sat in the coffee shop for twenty minutes or so, exchanging basic introductions and making small talk. Even at this point, she was already smiling at me a lot and touching my hand. I never had a flirt with me so quickly after meeting me, so a flag went off in my head, but it was a yellow flag rather than a red flag. Then we got in my car and drove to a sports arcade-type place a few miles away. It had batting cages, a virtual golf driving range, and a lot of sport-related arcade games. Throughout the whole time there, she couldn't keep her hands off me, and kissed me at every possible opportunity. By then, I spent enough time with her, and she seemed really nice, so I was no longer worried about anything. After we were done playing, we went to eat. The table was in the way, so the physical contact was limited to holding hands. But the conversation was amazing, and it seemed like I never said a single wrong phrase throughout the whole time, even when I mentioned religion and past relationships (typical taboo topics on the first date).

After the restaurant, she invited me back to her apartment. We sat on the couch and watched random things on TV. Things progressed from cuddling to making out to heavy petting. We didn't go all the way, though. I thought things still got too far, but enjoyed them anyway. After we were finished, we rested and talked. Topics got more personal by then, and at one point, she admitted to me she had bipolar disorder; she also made it clear that she takes the right medication for it, and is determined to get her life on the right track. Throughout the date, she seemed a little "all over the place" with the conversation topics, but other than that, there were no clear signs of bipolar condition. Still, I became concerned about what I was getting into (namely, dating someone with bipolar), but felt too comfortable to speak up. The rest of the date went well, and we spend the remaining time just cuddling, talking, and doing light petting. At the end, she said it was getting late, since she had to be up early the next day. I got dressed, gave her a kissed goodnight, and I left her apartment. Then I got in my car, and drove off.

The whole date seemed very out of sync with what I've gotten used to over the years: the girl was very into me within an hour of meeting, it seemed like I could do no wrong, and things got to heavy petting on the first date. None of those things eve happened to me before. And yeah, there's also an issue of her admitting that she has bipolar condition. One one hand, I like her, we got along very nicely, and she seems like a sweet girl. On the other hand, I'm worried about the possible ramifications of her bipolar. Would she act irrationally? Would she fluctuate between highly affectionate and highly aggressive? And in an unlikely but serious case, would I endanger myself in any way? I don't know anywhere near as much about bipolar as about Asperger's, so these are serious questions.

Needless to say, I felt completely confused, disoriented, and shellshocked the whole drive home. My brain was having a lot of trouble processing and integrating the whole turn of events. My thought were racing from one to another, almost bipolar-style. Now, I'm at a loss of what to do: should I (1) leave as quickly as possible to avoid any ramifications, (2) keep seeing her but not get too involved emotionally and watch out for danger signs, (3) assume that she knows how to take care of her bipolar and let my guard down, or (4) not be a perfect boyfriend and hope she loses interest in time. Option 1 seems almost hypocritical, because I myself have AS. Option 2 doesn't seem fair to the girl, because she's a really nice person. And if things get serious, the bipolar issue will always be in the back of my mind, like a nagging worry. So I if chose not to pursue a relationship, her losing interest seems like the most moral way to go about it.

Here's a bit of information for comic relief. I was so overwhelmed by the what happened, that I needed alcohol. So I stopped at a 24-hour supermarket to get a beer and a small snack. I don't know how my facial expression looked like, but on the inside, I felt like I just came back from a battlefield where a couple of mortar shells exploded behind me. All I know is that the cashier didn't check my ID and undercharged me for the pretzels, and a cop standing by the entrance (on night patrol, presumably) held the door open for me. These events made me even more confused, on top of what already happened, so that beer really helped in calming me down.

Now that you've heard the whole story, what would you do in this situation? I didn't make a poll because it's not cut-and-dried like most aspies prefer. But it is what it is. So if you can offer any suggestions, advice, or comments, I'll really appreciate it.

I can help you out, one of my siblings and several of my friends are bipolar.
1. She will act irrationally at times.

I will give you a basic rundown of bipolar. Bipolar manifests itself during adolescence or adulthood. Some of the features I noticed with Bipolar.
1. Incredibly charismatic, and humorous frequently. Can desire both isolation and to be around other people...goes back and forth. Alot of NT traits, but also extremely sensitive.
2. extreme sensory issues.
2. Normal to High Intelligence, were frequently considered gifted as children.
4. Obsessive interests. Rote Memory
5. Extreme mood fluctuation (Manic and depressed is just the tip of the iceberg).

The truth is I am torn whether or not you are good for her. But one of the thing people with ASD and bipolar folks share is a need for routine and structure.
Bipolar people can be extremely affectionate. You know the whole "i love her, she loves me, but she is crazy".

Alot of musicians listed in the "these people could be aspie section" were in fact bipolar (and yes, I have reliable sorces, or I have met them).

Bi-polar and aspergers can look very similar sometimes, except bipolar folks have NT skills. Basically it is as if a NT person suddenly got the sensory issues we were born with, but had all their NT skills, plus a few new ones.

In general...she is no more dangerous than you, but you really do have to watch out for her during depressive cycles...so she doesn't harm herself. If she is on meds...well she is probably pretty good.

Oh one thing...bipolar folks move very very fast, especially when manic.

Generally speaking, its NOT a bad match. Bipolar folks tend to like unusual people. While they are a little harder to manage and may seem crazy, you can always see the positive, I can't get her all the time because she is weird. I would not judge her, because there is more you share than you realize.

Honestly speaking, you don't have to be a perfect boyfriend, the fact is she probably struggles with dating as much as you do. She is not typical in alot of ways. She probably was attracted to you because you were different, and it is a good idea to give it a shot.

if you are interested in continuing to the next two or three dates try and spend some time looking for more in depth info on Bipolar disorder. I think the fact that she has come forward and offered this information is fairly brave (considering it can draw worse reactions than your own), she says she is taking her meds and from your post seems to have been fairly honest and straight forward with you.

I'm wondering a little at this point if the state of mind you were in following this had something to do with the fairly sudden level of emotional and physical intimacy (which you say you aren't accustomed to) rather than with specific concerns about her being bipolar?

also, statistically speaking you face a greater threat of violence from someone who doesn't have a mental health condition than someone who does and I don't think you've said anything to suggest she woul be in any way violent.

go for a second date i say, if you don't feel comfortable with things let it be because you're not compatible rather than for a perceived or possible threat based on poor information.

But... you're an Aspie! You of all people should know not to make decisions like that based purely on a label. It's just a "heads-up," not an automatic "slam the door." Whether she's good or bad for you, you'll only find out after spending time together.

That would be the standard advice in any relationship. Nobody's perfect. The only question is whether you are good for each other. No label can tell you that.

I've had a few bipolar friends, and they've been really great. I find myself really in sync with them. But bipolar people do change around a lot. You've only seen one side of this girl; it's difficult to say how she'll react around you in the future. Sometimes in one of their "odd states" a bipolar person may be unusually affectionate or oblivious of social boundaries. The lack of social boundaries can be advantageous to a socially awkward Aspie, because it's one less thing to worry about. But it might be a good idea to take things slowly, so you both have time to adjust to each other's idiosyncrasies. Decide what you're comfortable with doing for now, and stick to it until your comfort level changes.

How the hell can you say you"love" someone, and be in a relationship if you arent emotionally attatched to that person?
It's not a date then, /care what anybody says. People who are in a relationship, and dont love the person they date/emotional attactment, it's simply not a date, really : /


But either way, back to the OP.
Really, you have Aspergers. Did you tell her that?
Do you think it would be right, of her to run away and cut contact with you cause of that?
Just cause she has bipolar, dosnt mean you have to run away.
You said yourself that she is nice and etc. And like you also said, you would be a VERY big hypocrit if you would run away now.

Imo, you should just keep dating her. Also tell her about your own condition, just like she told hers.
And keep on dating. Actualy knowing those things could make it easier for the both of you (if none of you would run away from the other because of what they have, bipolar/aspergers)

I was just wondering Aspie1 if you told her about your Aspergers? I know your diagnoses of of Asperger's says "undiagnosed" on your profile btw.

I'd go out with her at least once or twice more, just to see how things go.

From things my cousin has told me (she is bipolar), if she is nervous about something or stressed out it can cause her to become slightly manic. If your lady friend is reacting the same way as my cousin, it could be that her being nervous about meeting you caused her to be slightly manic, which could explain why her conversation was "all over the place" and why she was more physical with you than you expected.

If you enjoyed her company, see her again. There's no need to plan the whole relationship out; you know she has bipolar, but you still don't know how it manifests itself in her. From your description, she sounded probably hypomanic, which would make me wonder how effectively her medications are managing her moods. Hypomania may seem attractive now, but if she goes fully manic, she could have several nights in a row without sleep; psychotic symptoms; extremely impulsive and reckless behavior, including physical aggression; and a pressured speech and flight of ideas such that you won't even be able to understand her. It's often mixed in with alcoholism and drug addictions for an added bonus.

I was actually talking about how it might be fun to date a woman with bipolar for a while. It'd be challenging, to say the least, but it could be pretty rewarded too in its own way.

Thanks for the replies so far. You guys are great at giving insights. It's very comforting to know that there is a community I can turn to for advice or simply a third-party opinion. I'm actually feeling a little better, after having read the responses. But here's my take on things.

Tias, I didn't tell her I had AS. I probably should have, but when she told me about her bipolar, I kind of froze up, although I managed to give an appropriate response. But you're right, that's why I said this was a moral dilemma. I'm worried about her bipolar's ramifications for myself, but I know I'd be a hypocrite if I bailed.

TitusLucretiusCarus, I think you nailed it. The instant intimacy was very shocking indeed. But please note that the concept of getting intimate with a woman quickly after meeting her isn't new to me. I've seen escorts on multiple occasion, and that's exactly what happened: I'd walk in the door, and the fun would begin within ten minutes. But in this case, it was on a regular date, and that's why it seemed so shocking. What compounded my dazed state of mind is that she told me about her bipolar after we've gotten intimate. Also, she kept telling me how good I was, and how comfortable she was with me. So as a result, two things, very quick intimacy and being told about bipolar mixed together in my mind, creating a chemical reaction of sorts (think of mixing baking soda and vinegar). If she told me while we were eating in the restaurant, I'd probably feel a lot more calm afterwards, although I'd probably stop the intimacy before it got too far (at making out, most likely).

starygrrl, you're into something here. And I'm sure that it could be a very good relationship, with enough mutual effort from both parties, that is. I've even read somewhere on this site that aspies and bipolars are a good match for each other. However, you also pointed out that obsessive interests and acting irrationally are symptoms of bipolar. So I'm highly concerned that this girl might become obsessed with me, and start acting in ways that could make my life difficult. (Then again, maybe I'm giving myself too much credit here or maybe the movie Obsessed planted ideas in my head, but I think it's a valid concern.) I really would like to give this girl a chance, but numerous "what if" scenarios keep popping up in my head. I think I probably would be far less concerned about this if me and her haven't gotten intimate on the first date. Perhaps her intense physical affection was a manifestation of a hypomanic episode, and that's what's putting the fears in my head.

To everyone on here: I'm probably experiencing an emotional hangover, which is why I had that "just came back from a battlefield" feeling. It's very unusual for a girl (who isn't an escort) to get physical with me so quickly. Perhaps she caught on to my different neurological wiring within seconds of seeing me for the first time, through pheromones or special abilities that come with bipolar, and felt attracted. But perhaps this isn't anywhere as big a deal as my mind is making it out to be. Perhaps she has concerns of her own, like thinking how she could possibly get intimate so quickly with a guy she just met. But either way, this is what's on my mind right now, and any input you can add will be appreciated.

Last edited by Aspie1 on 18 May 2009, 7:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I have had a few friends who are bipolar, and a dance instructor with it. If you really like her, KEEP seeing her. But if she seems to be acting strangely, watch her closely to try and gauge her reactions (I learned to do this with my bipolar friends in time). You may also want to tell her how her unusual level of affection was unexpected (especially if it made you uncomfortable). She said she is on meds? If that is the case do not offer her alcohol, may be a really bad mix! She will probably be more understanding with you than most NT's, so give her the same chance you want her to give you. Learn from each other and see what happens.

I have known several people with Bi-Polar, and I probably have mild Bi-Polar myself. I do agree with other posts that they can be very affectionate, but the biggest problems I had with full-blown BP people are the extreme mood swings and unpredictabilty. So, I would just try to guage the severety of it, and if it is too bad, I would ask yourself if you want to be on a roller-coaster ride the whole time your with her.

I know this one girl that could really sweet, funny, and loving one day. The next day she would be loud, hyper, flashing her boobs to everyone, sleeping around, or just acting totally impulsive and insane. The next day after that she we be way down in the dumps, feeling sorry for herself. Then the next day, her mood would change to being irratable, and not wanting to be around people.

I really liked her, felt comfortable around her, and got along great with her, but when it come down to it, I figured she would probably be bad for my health, if I decided to have a relationship with her. We are still friends, even though we haven't talked to each other for about a year though.

If you really like her though, I would at least remain friends with her, because, like us, even though they may have issues, they can still be good people.

Letting her know about your AS may calm her worries about your condition. AS/BPD is not anathema to romance; it takes communication, awareness, patience, forgiveness. If you want to talk more, please feel free to PM me.


M.

The best advice is see her through a full cycle. Bipolar is a chemistry thing... lunar cycles effect brain chemistry (which is where we get the word lunatic)... and menstruation etc will also effect brain chemistry. If you can run a cycle without anything too outside of your ability to deal with then give it a go for a longer haul.

Like everything else it's a spectrum condition... in that case it basically means it has different episodes and neuro-chemical states... beyond that the range can be anything from being a little more flippant when nervous/ upset/ etc or it can be as bad as rapid cycling (which they can chance moods 10x mid sentence).

Just be careful moving too fast.

I see dating someone with bipolar as being caught in traffic. When a gap opens up you get honked at to move... but as soon as you start to it could close back up and you have to be prepared to slam on the breaks. Drive slow... drive carefully and make sure to wear your seat belt.

I have an update. I talked to her on the phone last night. I called, and she picked up. We talked for thirty minutes or so, mostly about how her day went, and when to get together again. She didn't mention her bipolar condition or the quick intimacy, other than a thinly veiled reference: "I really enjoyed myself last night, and guess who was responsible?" During the conversation, I briefly mentioned a few of the difficulties I have, but didn't tell about AS outright (if I decide to do it, it's better done in person). Overall, she sounded pretty calm and rational, although a little agitated from work. Somehow, she was able to allay my fears and indirectly persuade me to keep seeing her. She really is a sweet girl; I just hope that her bipolar won't make it impossible for me to be around her. But from the way she told me about her past, she was on the receiving end of a bad relationship quite a few times, so even if it doesn't work out, I'm fairly sure it won't be a messy break-up.

I talked this over with one of my NT friends, and he said: "She seems all right, but you know, put away everything irreplaceable when you invite her over. And don't share what you don't want used against you. It sounds like she can control it, but still." His answer seemed a little paranoid (my friend has been through bad relationships, so I don't blame him), but fairly reasonable, so I just might end up taking his advice. It's something you should do with all people you just met, anyway, with or without bipolar. So for now, it looks like I'll keep seeing her for a few more dates, and see what happens.

It sounds to me that you have found a nice girl who likes you a lot. You should definatly give it a go and try and make it work.