Question for the women, trying to understand something.

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I don't think it's really about automatically staying away. Speaking for myself, when I think a guy is interested in more than friendship, he will typically be flirtatious and playful. I don't think that NT's (I'm one by the way) usually just come out and say, "I like you. I think we'd make a good couple". Not literally. They do it with flirting and playfulness.

Aspies, on the other hand - the ones I know anyway - tend to be more straightforward and literal. I'm not saying this is a bad thing, it's just not the typical dance we're used to.

Oh yeah. I've happily got one at home too!

On the up side, some women are actually starting to associate the awkward gait and odd mannerisms of AS with the "geek" factor, and "geeks" have recently started to move up from the low end of the food chain towards the top. Why? Well, "geeks" are smart, can have very successful careers in their special focuses and tend to make smart babies -- all of which are criteria for choosing a mate in the female psyche. Plus, smart guys are just plain more interesting! And something else that AS guys may not be aware of: A lot of you come off as vulnerable and sweet, which is very attractive to some of us. And then there's the baby face some of you retain. Very yummy to some ladies. All these attributes make my aspie husband extremely attractive to me. So, all is not lost.

And just you all wait til after the new movie, "Adam" comes out. Its premise is a love story between a young NT woman and an aspie. A lot of people may learn about adult HFA in a favorable light. That could be good for everyone's love lives, eh? I sure hope so.

Best thing you can do to attract ladies is to do what every mother tells her 20 yr old son: Bathe regularly, comb your hair, wear deodorant, brush your teeth at least once a day, eat with your mouth closed and don't stuff it full of food, don't wear socks with sandals, stay fit, keep your dwelling clean and tidy, don't do drugs, don't get sloppy drunk in public, be polite and respectful to women, don't just talk about yourself, ask questions about her and then LISTEN to her answers, make eye contact if you can, try to hold your back straight, learn how to open doors for women and old people, pull out chairs for them before they sit, help them put on and take off their coats, when you're getting yourself something to eat or drink ask if they'd like something too, buy them flowers and perfume once in awhile, pay more attention to them than your computer, and generally show an interest in them as people.

Sound like a lot? Well, no-one can do all of it all of the time. But if you can at least pick one or two items to really make a habit of, you'll be that much more attractive to the ladies. Good luck!

This post was too funny... and I know what you mean. The first time my aspie husband laid eyes on me he said, "You are mine. You've always been mine. You always will be mine. And someday you'll understand."

Ok.

Well, you had to at least marvel at his straighforwardness. But, no, I wouldn't suggest this as a first line. I remember at the time hearing the *beep* *beep* *beep* of the truck backing up in my head.

Try something like, "Hi, I'm Jeff." instead.

Last edited by Feyhera on 29 Jul 2009, 9:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

Oooh! Hadn't heard of this movie. I'll definitely keep an eye out for it. Probably make those of us with our Aspie guys the envy of the masses!

Well it's an indie movie (I only learned about it because I saw a trailer for it in another indie movie)... I don't think most of the public will even know it exists...

These fit in the category of being a "gentleman", which is a bit old-fashioned and has debatable merits. The opening doors is fine, though I'd personally do it for anyone if the door isn't out of my reach. Flowers and perfume seem to work better with some women than others; I've read reports of women being put off by flowers on the second date. Many women of my generation find the other two gestures excessively crowding or even patronising.

The other bits of advice you mention strike me as sensible, though more for being tolerated than being attractive. Personally, even though I don't follow all of it to the letter I suspect that if I did I still would have just as much trouble with women. I guess if a guy would be attractive but for the fact that he never brushes his teeth, it helps.

Ah, remember: I qualified this list by saying it's what a mother would tell her son, and many moms share these things with their boys. As it happens, yes, some women find it patronizing when men do gentlemanly things for them. As one who went the feminist route myself during my youth, I understand the reasoning. But, some years have passed, and some understanding of the value of the indicators of "chivalry" have shown themselves to me. So now, if I am anything, I am a confirmed "feminine-ist", that is, show me you understand that I'm not just one of the guys, and I won't ask you to wear an apron while you do the dishes. I'm a female of the species, and I'm proud of it, and I feel the feminists had their hearts in the right place but unwittingly discriminated against our innate femininity without meaning to. Plus, I figure the world's got enough men in it already and I have no urge to go toe-to-toe with a bunch of hairy guys in their "man's world". But that's just me. (So, feminists, don't take it personally and get all mad at me; I don't hold it against anyone who feels differently and I'm not here to change your minds)

For safety's sake, if one isn't sure if traditional gentlemanly courtesy will be welcome or met with disgust -- ask. "May I get the door for you?" isn't condescending, and shows double the respect, IMO.



I was in a rock band for a few years and our keyboardist was a complete pig -- never brushed his teeth (they were green!), rarely showered, let his hair go to dreads, shaved like twice a month, wore the same clothes for weeks on end, smelled of BO mixed with unwashed hiney and generally was just gross. Even the flies avoided him. His breath was so bad that no-one would use his mike if one of ours was malfunctioning! It actually stank! And my addition of "no socks with sandals" was a tribute to him. Anyway, as the only female in the group, I was nominated by the other 3 guys to "do something about Scott." In front of him, they unanimously voted me in as "Image Consultant and Hygiene Officer" for the band and right then and there, I outlined pretty much what I wrote here (sans the gentleman stuff). It took about a month for the whole transformation, trips to laundry mats and barbers, a couple of dental appointments and a full out expedition to the personal hygiene aisle at the pharmacy, but *VOILA* to everyone's astonishment, Scott turned out to be a good-lookin' guy with girls paying attention to him! No-one could ever see his good looks lurking there under the stink and goo! I think he lost his virginity that summer at the age of 32. So, for some guys here, who might think hygiene is a waste of time, you never know til you try it. Some of you here could be ugly ducklings who could come out looking like beautiful swans if you just applied some soap and water to the problem! It's a "must" first step at the very least!

Ken you are going to have a hard time getting a straight answer, for the simple fact that people generally don't understand their behaviour they just react. What they may attribute to it is often different from the reality. It is not a conscious thing at all.

The fact is that anxiousness, and other awkward behaviour that is not fitting the situation makes people uncomfortable for animalistic reasons. Just like how some dogs become neurotic around some humans, when in the wild that type of behaviour is pretty much non-existent.

I like your example, but have to disagree with the conclusion that, in the wild, dogs don't act neurotically. Maybe I'm seeing a different thing in my head than what you were referring to, but, nervous behavior is quite common in wolves and is a sign of submission. What may be happening sometimes when an aspie's body language telegraphs submissiveness is that he's triggering an unconscious response from the more "alpha" humans around him to "attack" -- because, in the wild, weakness is often met with domination:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUIRG6aWtXs&feature=related[/youtube]

I do think this applies for humans. Humans just don't bite for real. They may however "bite" your feelings or "dominate" you into isolation. Sad, but true scenario.

Dammit, where are these girls 'cause I sure as hell am not finding them. One of the first things this girl commented on about me when we were on a date is how I'm such a huge dork. Normally, this isn't an insult to me, but it hit close to home, because she meant it. I wanna be really nice, or sweet as you describe it, but it makes me vulnerable as hell, so I usually stop myself before doing anything that could be remotely perceived as sweet. I've had insecure girls fish for compliments from me so many times and they almost always have no luck, because even when I want to say something flattering, I don't because it makes me feel subservient. Like the other day, this girl was telling me how cute she thought her new jacket was and the whole time I was thinking "what in teh f**k, are you trying to make me the gay friend?", so I just told her "eh, it looks alright, I guess", lol. If she were actually into me, that response would've probably just made her more into me (nearly every single girl who has actively pursued me whom I didn't find attractive and was trying to get rid of only started to pursue me harder once I started making those sorts of responses), but I haven't talked to her for almost a week and a half since then, so I suppose she was just using me for male attention.

Being nice is not the same as being subservient. You need to let go of that idea, it is not helping you out. Personally I would avoid females that fish for compliments like the plague. It is a sign that they have low self esteem. Those girls are high maintenance.

Girls that like intelligent, creative guys... Have you tried scouring your area for girls that like P&P RPing games? Or online ones? As a female I did not really have such a hard time finding a boyfriend, however I did have a very hard time finding a guy that really accepted every part of me. The guys I gamed with were generally, "ooo boobies *drool*", the guys I dated that didn't game thought I was too much of a geek and refused to talk about gaming with me or even try it.

We all have relatively compatible parts you know, but not everyone is as easy to match mentally and emotionally. It isn't just an Aspie problem, it is a human problem, but it is compounded by having AS and being male I think.

Where are these girls? On dates with you! And then you reject them.

Some guys, and this goes for NTs as well, make the mistake of thinking that if they show any mooshy-squooshy type emotion or allow themselves to be vulnerable in any way, that all the girls around them will think they can walk all over them. Well, the girls that do that are very immature and selfish and not ready for a relationship anyway. I really hear more of a maturity issue here rather than an AS issue. There's a reason people are cautioned to wait til they're at least older than 25 to get married, you know. It's because at 18 thru 25 most of us are just too young, too inexperienced, too selfish, too insecure to form good, strong intimate bonds with others. Between these ages, people really need to just be learning. And sometimes, hell a lot of the time, learning arrives in the form of pain, disappointment and frustration. Again, this goes for NTs and aspies alike. Believe it or not, that pain is not a punishment, or always a sign to stop doing something or to avoid certain situations altogether. It's not black and white. Getting hurt, or losing out on a situation, if you allow the lessons in, can give you the experience and understanding to do better next time.

And where are these girls who find the vulnerable AS quality attractive? Most seriously dating, relatively mature young women would. Because they're dating to find someone for THEMSELVES, not dating to find someone who their vapid girlfriends will think is "acceptable". So, maybe you should be spending your fleeting youth working on yourself and stop expecting maturity from others when you haven't gained it for yourself yet. And I mean that in a friendly and helpful way.

May I say something about the perfumes?

If I was a mother's son, I wouldn't advise him to offer perfumes.
I've been offered twice; those perfumes smelled wonderful... but they were not my kind at all.
A perfume is very personal so you have to know very well someone to offer her(him) a perfume.
Besides, a good one is very expensive.

But instead, if you want to offer something to someone you don't know very well yet, you can offer sweets and caramels (or chocolates for those who prefer chocolates).
And if she doesn't want to put on weight, she'll share them with people she likes - or keep it on sight to remember the good moment of the surprise.
But she still will be pleased with the present and the attention you offered her.

And also: whatever you offer, mind to wrap it or, at least, put a nice rubbon on it!
I noticed that guys sometimes don't care about it but it's what makes the difference between an ordinary thing and a present.

That was just a little thing I wanted to add to the good advises already shared.

As far as the questionning of ken,

, it's difficult to explain it by written words.

It's a kind of "far away presence" sometimes.