The Philippines

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I agree. To an extent, I kinda see mail-order brides as the marriage equivalent of the direct and more platonic "Do you want to be my friend?" I mean, it's something that can work for some people so if it does work for you, hey that's great... but I feel that a long-term emotional relationship like that takes time to build trust. It's something that happens naturally; being too aware of it can put an awful lot of undue stress on it that ideally shouldn't be there. By the way, Filipina women can be very assertive in relationships. The submissive appearance is partly due to the culture emphasizing the "good girl" appearance. This allows them to do funky stuff behind closed doors like have screaming and crying episodes in their emotional arguments with you, and still have their friends come to their aid to support her as you stand there, scratching your head going "wtf??" Just kidding. Sorta.

I should also note that Filipino culture has an extremely large sense of shame. Appearances mean a lot. A lot of skeletons get shoved in the closet. Don't even think of doing anything that may look bad to friends, family, bosses, etc.. If an Aspie is unlucky and unaware, this can be a significant sticking point.


Could you provide the source of these figures, so that I may take a look? Anecdotally it's always been the notion that mail-order brides are more likely to be victims of spousal abuse, but it'd be nice to see actual statistics.


What kind of "entertainment"? Again, there's always the more anecdotal "usual thing" that happens at the military bases...


Ouch. I don't think that Filipinas necessarily think that Filipino men are unfaithful, lazy and bad... but prevalent in the country is definitely a "white is right" kind of mentality. Part of that is due to historical reasons: the Spaniards were the economic and political power in the country for hundreds of years, and the part-Spanish part-Filipino descendants still living in the Philippines still hold a lot of the power and wealth in the country. At least throughout the urban areas, people look down on their own brown skin and try to lighten it in an attempt to look more Caucasian. For years my NT mom from Metro Manila told me not to play outside for fear that I would get dark, and would pinch my nose in the hope that it would be more pointed and less flat. Anyway, couple that with the better economic opportunities in Western countries and it's kind of a no-brainer that Filipinas will end up thinking that Western men are more attractive. Other than that, engineer, what you wrote does seem to resonate true, especially the parts where you clearly indicated that a mail-order bride from the Philippines should not be seen as an easy way to get a wife without lifting a finger to make the marriage work. All relationships take work, no matter which route one takes.


Sigh... definitely agree with you here! Filipino culture is very gregarious and talkative and emotional/irrational and not individualistic, and that definitely rubs my natural AS tendencies the wrong way. Like you, I have always felt somewhat detached culturally from the Philippines, even in those few attempts when I tried to hang out with other second-generation Filipino-Americans who were always so gung-ho about Filipino pride and stuff. I have enough social skills to fit in sufficiently at Filipino social events, and am comfortable enough in visits to the Philippines to hold my own, but I don't speak Tagalog and I only know enough to know when somebody is talking about me. But in contrast, I don't really feel isolated... I like to think of myself as a human being, first and foremost, not "American citizen" or "ethnic Filipino-American" or even "Aspie". While I don't do anything with the Filipino community on any regular basis, I feel like I can always get back to it if I wanted. All I'd have to do is talk to my parents and I'm sure they'd provide me with the hookup (yuck).

Interestingly, in looking for a dating partner, NT Filipinas are completely out of the question for me, for largely the same reasons non-Filipinos might be attracted to Filipinas. Something different is nice. In addition, having grown up with the culture and looking the part (sort of), there are just too many things about the culture I don't find appealing, but that's just me. NT Filipinas would remind me too much of my mom!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8QErCSwi9w&feature=PlayList&p=7A0643538ED9CED1&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=19[/youtube]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8QErCSw ... L&index=19

Hahaha that was great. Really liked the accent, the Catholic reference out of nowhere and the Eskinol (skin whitening product sold in the Philippines).
I met Rex once long long ago. Thanks for the video!!

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/jour ... 1&SRETRY=0

http://gabrielanews.wordpress.com/2008/ ... ted-hazel/

Hmm, the first link just gives some kind of internet browser cookie error.
The second link is... well um... I hope not quite the entertainment they were hired to provide.

Well, anyone who has witnessed the activities of the prostitutes outside of the big US military base in Seoul will tell you that it ressembles a cattle market.

I lived in South Korea for a year and found the women to be really nice. I only wish I'd been a little less shy and asked a certain girl out. She was so dam cute and kind (not a dominant trait of aussie women)... she later got married to another (korean) guy We originally met in Australia (language exchange).

I found it easier to understand facial expressions of Korean women... and I was often told I was kind (never told that by an Aussie woman which makes me think Koreans value kindness)... and they value loyalty too. I feel that australian women want so much that i could never fulfil their needs... Korean women seemed to be happy with someone who wasn't unattractive, works hard, is kind and loyal, and spoils them every now and then. I can do that.

There seems to be a bit of a stigma associated with dating asian women, which i was conscious of for a while... but i've come to the conclusion that your happiness should take precedence over other people's misdirected views.

Last edited by tonka on 24 Aug 2009, 2:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

Thanks for all the good points. In particular Stinkypuppy has raised some good ones. I can understand you are of Philippine descent, I only wish you had another tag. It seems a little bit silly to write to.

First about this violence against women. I live in Denmark, and found out that most information about foreign women marrying Danish men came from shelters that took care of women with problems. I have compared figures from a report from the Danish shelters with the Danish immigration statistics and found that it is 1.8 times as likely that a foreign women married to a Danish husbond seeks assistance in a shelter, than that a Danish women does it. However, this does not take into account, that most Danish women had friends or family where they could stay, so they did not have to go to a shelter. I therefore compared the figures from the shelters with figures from emergency rooms and the murder statistics. They are normally considered the most reliable information about rates of violence. I found that the figures from the shelters showed that the relative risk of violence for foreign woman was at least two and possibly four times as high as the other statistics. In addition, the other statistics rule out that the relative rate of violence is as high as shown in the statistics from the shelters. It may even be that foreign woman married to Danish men are less subject to violence than Danish women. I have published an analysis of these figures, but only in Danish.

Then about the Philippine men. I am not writing that all Philippine men are lazy, cheating and drinking. I have met a number that have impressed me with their dedication to both their families and their duties. However, as in Western countries there is a larger proportion of women who gets a college education, so it is difficult for all of them to get a man they consider to be at least on their own level. In addition, a substantial number of Philippine men spend their money on drinking or a mistress. It is not uncommon and young woman talk about it. I have also seen that life in Philippines among the middle-class - the children of school children and office workers - is difficult. Some young woman do not believe they can have children and live the life they want to in Philippines, and I am not talking about luxury, but simply to know they can afford to buy antibiotics if their child gets ill.

I agree with the attractiveness, even though I think it is more the size and build than the pale skin that is seen as attractive in Western men. And sometimes Philippine girls discuss fairly openly among themselves that Western men have what they call a big "bird". I have even been surprised about this attractiveness. For instance when a young girl on one of my first visits expressed a deep interest in the Danish political system. It was only later that I realized it was just a pretext to be able to speak with me.

Finally about meeting someone. I met my wife in Philippines through luck, and we had only known each other briefly when I proposed, and she said yes, and it has now worked out well for more than ten years. I guess the important thing is, to be open towards who you yourself are and to the potential partner you are together with, and that both of you feel ready to get married. I have found that it is better to know each other for a short time, and to know you enjoy doing things together, rather than doing a lot of asking and planning. You may become more critical the more planning and time you spend, and you may at the same time become more reluctant to give it up, because of the time you have spend.

There are a lot of Filipinas (and some Filipinos) who come to the USA to work as nurses.

Even people who have advanced medical degrees and work as doctors in the Philippines find that they can make MUCH more money in the USA as a nurse than as a doctor in the Philippines.

A lot of them appear to like to buy expensive European cars and big houses, and often fall into considerable debt.

But, they're also accustomed to a certain lifestyle in the Philippines--i.e., having loads of domestic servants to take care of the cooking and housework--that is unattainable in the USA, even with their much larger salaries.

But, they also have a lot of money to make their families happy in the Philippines.

You're welcome! As for the "Stinkypuppy" name... it's of course in deference to my awesome dog. I also chose it precisely because it was silly. It raises a lot of chuckles from people on the Internet and helps defuse any tension... which is important as most of the time I like to deal with very serious issues like my own or other people's problems. It might help if I had a picture of myself instead of my dog in the avatar, but my mere gaze makes birds fall out of the sky and babies cry.

About spousal abuse: I agree, statistics regarding violence against women, domestic and foreign, are always going to be cast into doubt to at least some extent, because of the uncertainty about women reporting such violence to authorities in the first place. Are your findings online somewhere that I can look? It's fine if it's in Danish; my reading knowledge of Norwegian is not great but ok so I might be able to garner something from it.

What you wrote about Filipino men in the Philippines is not completely untrue, but that's how it is with many stereotypes. The problem I find about the stereotype is not its element of truthfulness, it's that if there is a problem with the men, then it's cultural, and it's a little ironic of the Filipinas to complain about it when they also subscribe to the same overall culture. It is definitely true that a large population of Filipinas are well-educated, but I'm not sure that more women than men are college-educated. If it is true, I wouldn't be terribly surprised for a variety of cultural reasons, but for one thing it'd be very much in line with women having a lot of power in everyday matters. You are also correct about a tendency for many Filipino men to have mistresses or to waste money, but you can find that in any culture. The question I would have is whether there is something intrinsic about Filipino culture that promotes this? Where does this come from? It's something that remains in the back of my mind whenever I think about some certain philanderers and money-squanderers whom I know there, or when I visit the country.

Yeah, socioeconomic conditions in the Philippines are rough, but there are a lot of things about day-to-day Filipino life that make no sense to me. The gap between the upper class and poor is incredibly huge, and their physical juxtaposition as you walk throughout Metro Manila is very striking and rather disconcerting, although truthfully not all that unusual among urban areas in third-world countries. A feeling of not being able to meet true potential is pervasive in the urban areas, not only among the women, but also among the men. That's why there are so many Filipino overseas contract workers; the opportunities for people just don't exist at home. For example, men can go to East Asia or the Middle East for construction and engineering, poorer women can do more domestic work in East Asia or Europe, but these are typically only temporary or seasonal assignments... or they just overstay their visa. More well-off women can train in medicine or something else, as pandabear mentioned. And some go the mail-order route if they feel they have to do so. To some extent you're right, it's not about luxury but about meeting basic necessities. However, just from personal observation there is also an element of wanting to live in luxury as well. All these overseas Filipinos are pretty much expected to remit money back to the Philippines. It's the primary reason they look overseas for work in the first place, to improve the quality of life for themselves and for their family at home. But then why do so many Filipinos at home ask for so many luxuries to be shipped to them in the big Balikbayan boxes? They want expensive watches and gifts and of course Spam! Or they use remitted money for servants or other luxury items, and not necessarily on basic necessities. Why?? It might have something to do with the cultural idea of "impressions matter", thus people may have to appear well-off financially to onlookers even if they aren't really so. Alternatively it could just be that they want a comfortable life without really working for it, expecting overseas relatives to do it. There is a problem I think of people in the Philippines getting too dependent on foreign remittances, which may perhaps reinforce a kind of "less hard-working" mentality among Filipinos left at home. I don't know if this might contribute to the impression of the Filipino guys at home appearing lazy? This is not to say that there aren't honest Filipinos using remitted money responsibly, but pandabear does have a point about being used to a certain lifestyle back home...

Indeed, I don't think most Filipinos think very pale skin is particularly intrinsically attractive. However, light skin is generally exotic there and associated with money and power. There is a distinct sense of glamour and class associated with it, as movie stars and models are invariably of lighter skin tone. Skin color is a very big deal in other mixed-race locations like Brazil; lighter is "better". For certain, a lot of Filipinas are attracted to the height/build of Caucasians compared to the average Filipino guy, but this could also be partly due to Asian guys being stereotypically "less masculine" than Caucasian guys. Haha, yeah there is a general impression people have about, well... Asian vs. Caucasian "manhood"... I can't really comment. But there will be variations in physical attributes within every culture. As in the Rex Navarrete video, "we are the first multicultural people"! and attributes from different races will be evident here and there. I myself do not conform to the stereotypical build of the "average Filipino"... I have a medium build, not very dark, and quite tall by Asian standards (5'11"/180 cm).

I think it's great that you found something very special and unique in your Filipina wife. Again, I don't think there is anything necessarily morally wrong with trying to find life partners in this particular way. The only concern I have about it is that although you have a very balanced view about the compromises you had to make about your relationship, not every Aspie guy out there contemplating a mail-order bride has such a view. The impression I have though is that if a guy is capable of making a marriage situation like this work out with happiness from both sides of the relationship, then it's probably likely he could have made a more traditional marriage situation work out as well anyway. It's the willingness to compromise that makes or breaks a relationship, the fine specifics of how the two meet can make unhealthy situations worse but don't make the situation unhealthy in the first place. Aspies who think this will be a magic bullet for their relationship woes will be in for a very rude awakening.

Quite true..I was brought up w/ a maid beside me..But would you consider my condition? My mom and dad are separated and have their own families (plus I don't have a social life at all).Is being born because of an accident considerable?!

PS: I'm not lazy..I usually help the maid as often as I could

I agree very much with Stinkypuppy's analysis of Philippine society. I have together with my wife sometimes wondered about the women who worked as cleaning maids in Chicago and then came back on vacation to their home baranguay balancing with their jewellery and high heels down the gravel road.

I can add, that the information about college education is from the National Statistics Coordination Board in Philippines. There may be a newer figure. The one I have say that 10 % of Philippine women and only 8 % of men complete a college education.

However, I will like to get back to the topic about asperger and marriage. This is after all the theme of this thread. I agree, that if a Western man can get a marriage to work with a Filipina wife, he can probably also get it to work with a woman from his own country. Not that a marriage with any woman will work, but that it is possible. However, the problem is to meet someone. Most people meet their partner through their work, through friends or by going out. Probably the most common characteristic of Western men who marry women from another country is, that they have a work where they in their daily life only meet few women. If you are asperger or a borderline, you may only have very few friends, and you cannot go out in crowded places and make a good impression. In addition, there is this thing about romance. It is much more complex and sensitive, than to get a marriage to work. So many aspergers can get a marriage to work, but find it difficult to get a partner to be interested in them.

When meeting someone from Philippines it is in some ways easier. You want to find a partner who is young and attractive, and she wants to find a partner that also is attractive and compared to her well off. The mutual advantages are much bigger, and you may experience much less of game playing just for the sake of playing. This does not mean, that you will not have to be kind and make a good impression and that there is no space for romance, but it means that you are looked on as whether you appear to be able to be a good husbond, and not whether you are fun or entertaining.

I have met and heard about a number of men, who have been in contact with, or married Filipino women. It is my impression, that there is a much larger proportion of men with asperger among them, than among the general population. Maybe something like ten percent are at least borderline cases. Some of them had a succesful marriage. It seemed to be those who had some resources, and who regarded the marriage as a project they had to spend time and learn about to get to work. Similar to when they had bought a new computer. Some of them turned a prospective bride away, by being too blunt during the courtship. For instance by telling a woman, that he was now down to five prospects, and that she was still on the list. For some reason, she did not feel proud.

Finally, the only case that I have experienced that really went bad, was in a marriage where the husbond had several clear traits of asperger. He found it difficult to understand that he had married a woman with her own needs and feelings, and he became hostile and abusive, when he did not know how to handle a situation.

Have you ever seen Silip?

I know it exists, but haven't seen it. Do you recommend it?

It is one of the sexiest movies that I have ever seem. For a small part of the movie, a woman brings her American boyfriend to her village. That isn't the main focus of the movie, though. There is another movie (2007) of the same name--this one is from 1985.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0292236/

Hi

I am interested in meeting a lady in Thailand or the Philippines. Is there a topic on this forum about Thailand, 100 pages here. Or the Philippines. Or can someone give advice? I can live there, I think the ladies often prefer this too. Thanks.