The Problem with Western Men is....

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Well, we’re kind of a culture of dissatisfaction and our relationships are a victim. When everyone is always looking for a better deal….. Not advocating settling but sometimes good enough works.

That is true--a lot of the people in the Western world do seem to be dissatisfaction-centered, and given to complaining and moaning. We experienced a temporary euphoria when President Obama was elected, but now the complainers and moaners appear to be gaining the upper hand.

One thing about Western women, particularly American women--they've grown up with Disney Princess fantasies about a perfect prince eventually coming along, having a dream wedding, and living happily ever after. This does conflict with what "women's liberation" stands for, which basically says that men are pigs and women should have no use for them. So, Western Men are set up for very complex, conflicting expectations.

LOL, and I thought your topic was about western men...

Seems to me many of the views expressed about women are quite the contrary. Some of the men here seem to think that all women are pigs especially the western ones and that men can do without them by marrying an asian wife....which to me is pretty sick given the fact that I've met asian women who've seem just as opinionated and self sufficient as your typical western gal.

Anyway I think you're painting a very...very...very broad brush stroke. Either that or you don't get out much.

Yes, one would think it was blindingly obvious that a traditional society where women stay at home = a society where women overwhelmingly are golddiggers, even more so if it's a society where divorce isn't easily available or is considered unacceptable. But it seems some people are so blinded by romantic (and false) stereotypes about the Third World that they fail to see it (one could illustrate the 'family values' Third World by the going rate for babies in some places....). 'There is no worse blind than he who does not want to see.'



QFT.

You can search the internet to find a variety of perspectives.

For example: http://www.feministing.com/archives/004008.html

Also, it is true that women have overtaken men academically--women seem to do a lot better in school than men. Many academic programs that used to be exclusively male are now predominantly female. So, most women are likely going to end up being the family's primary income earner.

The funny thing about that blurb - even guys who are passionate and have interests/personalities aren't necessarily doing that much better in the relationship world. It seem like there's a lot more at play and a lot more crumbling down around our ears.

To add to that rather than leave it unspoken plenty of good women are having their lives wasted by their environments or what's available as well. Sometimes I forget that it needs to be explained.

My ex use to comment that my karmic debt was to return as a conscientious female. So, you could add lack of ethics to the list of what’s wrong with us. But I’d suggest that western women, while criticizing males, are rapidly adopting/exaggerating male behavior. Check out the movie “Deception,” Demi Moor/M Douglas – somewhat over-the-top, but the idea is there.

This is a solid thread – hope I don’t kill it…

I'm just asking...Sorry.

From what I understand, men vastly outnumber women on internet dating sites. To what can one account this imbalance? Are women much less interested in men than men are in women?

If there are equal numbers of men and women looking for each other, then where are the women looking?

Or, are most women uninterested in men?

Finally a logical question which I too have wondered.

I don't know....

Perhaps it is that women simply find men easier and have no need to use a dating site? It is a commonly accepted societal standard for men to approach women. Therefore, it logically stands that more women are going to "wait" for a man, than to go looking for one.

Never worked for me but I don't speak for the majority of women.

My sister on the otherhand has always been the bold one in approaching guys. I guess it all depends on the type of gal and how picky she is.

Mmhmm, and culture does affect that as well. Most dating sites are centered in the First World, and so are based on those cultures. I'm sure on a "dating" site in Iran, it would have more women, and they'd be posted there by their fathers so young suitors can look over, as that is the culture. Though that attitude toward women is dying out thankfully.

I think that while both men and women have more opportunities than ever before, both the average woman and the average man faces more stresses today as well.

Before, while men and women were restricted to overly rigid and separate "spheres", it was generally easier to find a niche in which to exploit one's strengths and minimize the need to use one's weaknesses, because there was less crossover between people on different life paths.

Now, people are hypersensitive to any kind of inequality or double standard, and it seems that the current alternative is to expect everyone to be at least passably good at every area of life, whether traditionally male or female.

So before it was more or less OK for a man to be clueless about emotional things as long as he was accomplished in some other area, and similarly a woman didn't need to know how to succeed in the economic world as long as she could do well in the interpersonal or domestic areas. The downside was that the reverse didn't "fly". But now, it seems as if neither does. Instead of being able to fulfill one standard or the other, by choice, all standards apply to some degree to everyone, even if not at the same time. So we get a world where nobody can ever really feel at ease with their weaknesses or flaws, even if they also have lots of strengths.

I think this disproportionately affects people in the "tails" of human variability in various traits. So socially clueless but technically brilliant aspies, particularly the males, have a harder time finding a niche, but overly touchy-feely people, particularly the women, have gotten a bad name as well. It seems what's needed is both to become accepting of all combinations of strengths and weaknesses in both sexes, as well as having support structures available in all areas to get people of both sexes passably well versed in whatever area they're struggling in.

Hmm, I think it's the "some day my prince will come" syndrome. To do something proactive is a somehow an admission of failure for some women, or seen as desparate, and there is a bit of a stigma, especially if your friends are all in relationships that occurred in the traditional manner. Whereas I think a lot of men consider it a sensible route if you haven't or are not meeting people at present.

You also have to realize that the women on those sites are really putting themselves out there. Not everyone is honest on the internet. I don't care how many filters or questions or whatever, they're never 100% foolproof. You don't exactly know what you're getting into, even if you've seen pictures, gotten emails, sent IMs. You can never know for sure. Plus, meeting people from the internet can be dangerous. You've heard those murder/kidnapping/rape/whatnot stories on the news about people meeting people they met online. The internet is a wonderful place because it's anonymous, but it's also terrifying because of that.

The idea of internet dating just doesn't seem safe to me. But, I'm a girl and have to worry about creepers and that sort of thing. (although I honestly never think about it and my guy friends are always like 'you shouldn't be walking about at night') Anyway, back on topic, I reckon guys aren't as worried about that sort of thing (though they probably should be) and so they'll join internet dating sites.