Nice Guys and Love, what's your take on the issue

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You're right - most of them *should* be.

I don't consider "playmates" a negative term. In fact, those are the only one I could only say positive things about. I DID, however, mean "playERS" in a negative manner when referring to guys. Of course it doesn't have to be, but in my description it is. And most women use "nice guy" in a derogatory manner too. But feel free to substitute any of those three words you mentioned for the "players", if you like.

And don't forget, if you do not think of sex as a means to get money, commitment, or anything else, you cannot be a whore or a b***h by my definitions .

this all really comes down to figuring out what you want and going after it. If you're tryinh to pick up women in a bar or club for the sake of picking up a woman, than of course there is competition and the more masculine 'alpha' type males are going to win most of the time. Realize though that the women sitting in a bar loking to get pciked up are looing for just that, and not a long term relationship with a 'nice guy'.

"Once we can get past caring about what the rest of the world thinks, and care about who we are and what truly matters, only then can we truly live!" ME~!

One reason that women often seem to not like nice guys is that often their niceness is more like passivity, or it is seen as manipulative. Also, the one thing that helps women in the battle between the sexes is that their sex drive is much weaker than mens'. The evidence for this weaker sex drive is simply overwhelming. This often allows them to use sex as a bargaining chip. In sex, just like door-to-door selling, aggressiveness and persistence pay off for the man.
Another interesting finding from psychological surveys- Women who have frequent sex with a wide variety of partners are more likely to be unhappy and depressed, while men who similarly have frequent sex with a wide variety of partners, show up as being more happy than other men.
There is then a bit of truth to the old idea that sex is somewhere where women "give up' something and men get something. If you look at what women actually like, i.e. romances and chick flicks, the ideal man is not a super-masculine thug type. Instead, he is most often independent, non-conformist, and hard to get. In short, he is manly enough to represent a challenge without being really scary.
To all nice guys out there, if you get hit with female dissing- accusations, tantrums, orders etc., just withdraw fast and start looking at other women. You don't have to a tough guy. If you can take what life dishes out without whinng, you are ahead of the game.

Hey...I haven't read all the replys to your post, so I hope this is not repetitive. I was guilty of going for the bad guys. I dated someone very sweet and kind who treated me like a princess. He wrote me letters, gave me small sweet gifts very often, stood when a girl came to the table, opened doors for all ladies...was a perfect gentleman in all areas. I wish I could say I stayed with him and married him, but unfortunately for me I didn't. I had my own problems. Let me tell you and any girls who may read this: Don't be stupid like I was! He is just the kind of guy most women want including me, but it took me too long to figure that out. He found someone else who appreciated him for who he was.

Not all girls are stupid like I was. I wish I could turn the clock back, knowing what I know now. Nice guys deserve a real chance girls! You will wish later that you went for a nice guy, but you may not have another chance at that kind of special guy. I can't remember the exact words, but from one of my favorite movies a mother is telling her daughter something about wasting your chances. We always think we will get another chance...be careful ladies....you may find out later that you missed out on the love of your life.

And to you, Mr. Nice Guy? Don't give up! There are girls and women who are looking for you. If someone doesn't appreciate you for who you are move on and find someone who will appreciate you.
Good luck!
Trish

Hehe, this statement is best described as a horrible, horrible lie.

I think this sentiment really comes from how intense and complicated our world is. We're all so amped up, we can't just chill out and have a *nice* time, but don't give up hope. I read on some other blog one time, that the reason girls like the bad boy is because he's willing to fight for her. So, even though he treats her like sh*t, she feels safe with him. I am in a relationship with a "nice" guy and even though he is strong as an ox, I don't feel safe with him because he's kind of clueless. There are other things I am unhappy about with him, but this in particular, is a big turn off. I want to feel like he values me enough to worry about me in certain situations. Once, when we were out, someone in a group of guys groped me. I didn't see who it was but I knew it had to be one of four guys, and my boyfriend didn't do anything. Kind of made me feel like he's not much of a man. Sorry if I sound like a b*tch for saying that... that's just how I felt/feel. I didn't expect him to fight for me, but he could have at least run to my side, SOMETHING.... but he just stood there like he didn't know what to do. I'm just venting now, but hopefully this will help nice guys better understand what *some* women want.

Yes doing something is very important. Most aspies seem to think the safest thing to do is nothing well I can tell you now that doing nothing is always the wrong thing to do when it comes to women.

I think this doing nothing trait, it extends to all parts of aspie life, comes from the limbic responses of freeze, flight or fight. This is how everyone responds in a new or threatening situation but I think aspies only get as far as the freeze response some break in the connection between the lizard brain and the mammalian brain going on there that means we do nothing at all (freeze) when what's actually required is positive action (flight or fight).

In other words 'if I just ignore it it'll go away' is never the case, as I say this extends to every aspect of life.

Agreed and I will share some reasons why:

#1 reason: the man who was forced to wait too long (whatever that limit might be) will not wait any further and will eventually become something of a misogynist and will ironically not see that the particular lady who happens to come into his life is interested or will reject her out of hand in a general sort of "revenge".

OR: #2: even if he does not act as in scenario #1 it will happen too late for him to marry and have kids.

OR: #3: the woman who has woken up to this truth about her past behavior and tries to reform will be too old to hold his interest.

And in general: #4: women select men due to peer pressure and either: A): most likely will see other women reject him and word of this gets around and so most women will continue to shun him because they don't want to be perceived as chasing unworthy material, or B): his self-image will suffer to the point where even if he does not become the misogynist under scenario #1, he will send out "loser" vibes and women will shun him - just as they would if he acts bitter.

So sorry to tell you tpal, your urging for the nice guy to hold on is a wasted effort. I suggest you play the Beatles' song "I'll Follow The Sun". This is the song I play or think about every time I've gotten thick with someone like you. In fact it might sound cruel but my fervent prayer is that everyone like you should have a horrible, miserable life. Oh wait...you already are!

The thing is the "nice guy" thing is often code for men who are often misogynistic, creepy, chauvinistic, etc. Its a turnoff not because of the passivity, but the other things under the surface.

I have met alot of truely great guys who got married pretty quickly (in thier twenties), the reasons I can sumarize for them getting married is not because they were alpha males/or as*holes. Instead it was the fact they were actually completely respectful from the start of the relationship towards thier female partner, became her best friend, had a complimentary sense of humor, shared similar interests/background, and they were generally good compliments to each other. Did they have an activce sex life: absolutely. When it gets down to it, its not about being a nice guy or alpha male or anything like that...its about treating women with respect, and realizing that sex is part of the relationship, and an important part, but not the only part. This is why you get alot of people from similiar professions/education levels in relationships...honestly just look at Barack and Michelle Obama, thier relationship is pretty similar to relationships of people I have known in my life that have been successful.

Alot of the problems with what I see posted is that its overly misogynistic (biostructure) or kind of misses the point. You are the first person who kind of gets it. The thing is this is not as black and white, or easy to follow. This takes work and understanding.

I had a male friend put successful M/F relationships in this way: She is always right, and use the bread plate. And this is very much a loaded statement with lots of hidden meaning. Figure out what it means...maybe just maybe you will have a chance.

Nice can mean several things:

1: Caring. Those guys don't finish last. But..
2: Weak guys, or rather, shy/paranoid-to-offend guys DO finish last because they are...well, they're no fun.

Being nice, fine.
Just don't be shy.

Shy guys finish last.

As though it's a choice...

Nice guys should never change who they are. They will find the right person, it may just take a little time. I think its the same for girls too - when you are younger you go for the opposite - nice girls tend to go for bad boys, nice guys tend to go for nasty women. As you get older you look for a deep connection (not just physical) I always used to go for the good-looking guys but often got hurt - there was always another pretty girl to catch their eye. However, when I met my husband I was attracted to the whole package - his personality, his political and moral values, his laid back nature, his kindness, his sexy charm. And he is short and bald not tall, dark and handsome, lol! When you meet the right person, you meet the right person. Good guys always win in the end, in my opinion.

The fact that only a few girls have like me because of me being the the nice guy/gentleman, is now leading me to believe that those few females around my age (18-23) that DO like the nice guys/gentleman are very mature, while the rest who only want the bad boys are just immature little brats. Even though I'm the "nice guy" type around a bunch of immature freshman (lol), mentioning being a Senior somehow sparks their interest lol (probably because that's considered "status", right?)

Just to not sound sexist/misogynistic, I can say vice versa about my own gender and going after the real trampy/slu*ty dressed females. (I've never liked that slu*ty type either)

My friend has advised me to look for "women", and not "girls", that is, females who are not into head games and want to be mature instead of skanks who get drunk at frat parties every weekend.... he mentioned I should look for women whom are like 24-29 range.... Then again, I'm only still in school, with no job, so how could I put myself at high value with a woman who's already out of school and has just began to work?

Being a guy in the 25-29 range, finding the right woman isnt any easier. Its especially hard since i lack a decent job and an overall direction in life. I just want someone in my life to prove that there is a reason to wake up each morning . . . and its possible the lack of something meaningful with another person (outside the family) could be hindering my thoughts and focus. Gah, getting depressed because of this topic again . . .

I am keen to understand more about this alleged problem that females find themselves in. Are you able to elaborate on this 'inability to admit lust in a socially acceptable manner' dilemna?