Why do women always like to mess with guys?

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Flirting can be teasing with an eye to building familiarity and closeness, and puttinig each other on the same level.

I feel on the one hand they want a guy to be nice and timid so they feel safe. Then on the other other hand they want a guy to sweep them off there feet, take control, be aggressive and strong. These 2 signals are oppossed to one another. It is very hard for someone with AS to read what women want like that.


If you are too timid, you are friend zoned. If you are too aggressive, you are a stalker. Most women I have dealt with expect the guy to automatally know what they expect without being upfront and honest.

I tend to think one nighters or 'friends with benefits' even deepens the shadows, for me when it has happened in the past I've walked away numb and almost feeling like my world is under water. Really loneliness is resolved or at least most of the way once someone has themselves almost as a duality (self assurance +), the other part is having a long term relationship that's actually worth something. As you noted though, women inherently need that more - and that's even with the fact that, realistically, most guys need it whether they want to admit it in our current culture or not.

My best relationship was a friends with benefits situation. I feel she was the only women to ever be honest and straght with me and never sent me mixed signals. We had a good friendship on top of the benefits. We loved and respect each other. Friends with benefits with the right person can be a very good thing.

If there is some degree of initial attraction, a significant amount of them want to be swept off their feet by you. I mean, different girls fall for different approaches, but my entire life up until a month ago I've been the timid guy. As I've started to move in the direction of being more of a "confident" guy, I've started noticing more favorable outcomes. This doesn't mean you have to be an as*hole by any means.

So many times in my life have I been approached by girls that are initially very attracted to me only to have them lose interest because I used to take a beat around the bush approach that ended up boring the hell out of them. You know, I did typical aspie behavior by attempting to get to know the interested girl intellectually before I got to know her romantically. The thing is, you can do both at the same time, I think.

Nothing wrong with a woman looking for a sensitive dominant man. It does exist, as diametrically opposed as you say the behaviours seems. I like it in either gender and, hell, I even possess those dual qualities--oddly enough, I've attracted straight girls a few times, and I'm a lady. The sensitive-yet-protective type personality is successful because it's adaptable, which makes it attractive.

Also, see my post above: I asked you a question, and I'm curious.

Roadgames, I'm happy you found a new life as one of those pick-up artists, but for most of us, we aren't interested as displayed by the reactions. You gave a suggestion about going to bars/clubs/parties. 99% of the responses were negative. You then in this thread suggested to assume the woman is attracted and go for the kiss or more.

I'm glad your David D Angelo books have given you more confidence, but we don't want to be "that guy." We just want a woman we can relate to. A woman that falls for that creepy/rapist sh*t isn't the kind of woman most of us want.

I asked because I felt she was avoiding me for awhile. She usally liked to come over and hang out, do stuff, ect.. But all of a sudden she only came over when sher needed something. (a ride to and from the airport, a ride to the doctor, ect..) The way I asked her went something like this: " Seems like you have been busy, are you seeign someone new. I know you don't have romantic feeling for me but its OK. I just want to know why you have been not wanting to come over as often as you used to."

She told me then that she was not. Then after the ride home from the airport, after she got what she wanted from me, she told me was seeing someone. She lied to me, did not respect me enough to tell me the truth even after I told her I need people to be truthful with me.

I almost did not pick her up from the airport. She said she would call me when she got in when she flew out. She never called until a couple of days before to comfirm I was goping to pick her up. I was "this close' to calling her to tell her to find some other ride back from the airport. On the phone she said the first few days with her family was stressful as soon as she got of the plane and she forgot to call. she would fill me in when I picked her up. I gave her the benefit of the doubt and picked her up.

While we were walking back to my car, I asked her what happened with her family and she told me that the first day was good. This stopped me cold. I looked right at her and said, "Katie, you told me on the phone that it was bad from the time you stepped of the plane. So you lied to me about that to get me up here to pick you up." It was not a good ride home. When we got onto cape cod, she called her friend that was apt. sitting her place on nantucket. She asks him if he wants anything at burger king because we are stopping before she gets on the other plane. We walk into Burger King and she orders for herself and her friend on the island, pays for it. Only then while they are getting the other food ready she looks at me and asks if I wanted anything. I know enough social skills thta you ask that beofre you place the order.

Was that the question you wanted answered?

I like this. I can detect a pickup artist before he approaches (I'm sure at least subconsciously most women can) and, although they can be fun to practice flirting with, I have no further interest. I'm only interested in people with whom I can form a lasting, deep relationship, rather than someone who's a scientist of moves. If anything, that just creeps me out to no end.



Yes, that answers it. But believe it or not, I've seen guys exhibit this exact same behaviour as much as girls. It's narcissism and abuse, hardly something only women do. Humans are, by nature, opportunistic organisms. If they see an opportunity to exploit resources, it's hard to resist. It seems like something in the way you communicate with people is leaving you a sitting duck, as it were. I do know what that's like, and my mom had the same problem, too.

In situations like that, it's easy to place all the blame on the other person and become the victim. Even if you may be the victim, it's likely you've placed yourself in that position unknowingly. You need to put up 'safety' boundaries, not destructive to anyone but protective at the same time. Unfortunately, that's just how it works with biology, and I agree it's very disheartening.

If you outright try to get any explicit verbal confirmation, you're usually going to kill the mood and attraction is going to decrease below the threshold where they're able to see you as more than a friend.

I've found women that I can relate to and that's simply not enough to create romantic attraction. In fact, I've killed attraction from women I can relate to by boring them with rants about abstract concepts, talking to them like another dude almost while maintaining stupid notions of chivalry and other nonsense. I didn't want to have this to happen again, so I decided to begin the process of socially calibrating myself using a sort of shortcut by going out to bars, parties, and clubs as much as possible and approaching as many women as I'm comfortable with in order to attempt to weed out the behaviors I have that kill attraction in girls who are initially attracted to me.

I don't assume attraction ever, and believe it or not, you can tell if there's some interest before you even say a word just through the patterns of eye contact and concurrent facial expressions (this completely blew my mind as an aspie when I first 'discovered' it). If there's none of that interested looking eye contact going on, I don't approach. 99% of the social calibration process is just becoming a more friendly person who enjoys interacting with many types of people and is comfortable in many situations.

I'm new to the conversing with women thing, but I've noticed what seems to work, and it's just really give and take. Sharing something about yourself, then inquiring about something about her.

For instance, I was getting my haircut and she was talking about my hair. So I asked her if she's ever seen the show 24, and she said she has, and I said that my hair is kind of similar to the character Tony. She then talked about other shows she watches. So I said "I don't really watch a lot of modern TV, I watch Seinfeld and Frasier reruns" so she said "Oh, the stuff that was on when I was in high school." So then I asked her (changing the subject to her) if she ever gets guys going in there looking for mullets, and she shared funny stories.

I was just making conversation, not trying to flirt with her, but the same applies with women you're interested in. A lot of guys on here want women to like their science fiction and cartoons and weird interests. I just share things that are of interest to me that other people have at least heard of, and if they like it, great, if not, they'll share something with me that they like.

And if in the same situation, a girl didn't say anything else after the Tony/24 comment, it's because she isn't that interested in talking, not because you bored her. It's her problem, not yours.

In pick-up language, you can't make a hoe a housewife. Some women are just nice to look at and not much else.

It seems like <10% of them want to talk about abstract concepts on dates, and still, if you don't know the signals they give you when they're interested, they're going to lose interest fast. Even then, you've gotta learn how to flirt and abstract concepts are not good material to get some flirtation going unless you're some kind of master of body language and can be playful about dynamical systems, computer science, or politics. All of that sort of flirting stuff happens over silly, spontaneous things unless you're some body language master, which I'm not. I mean, seriously, at one point, unless I knew a her very well, I had a very, very hard time talking about the stuff girls like to talk about. I'd even meet girls that had the same interests, talk to them like they're dudes about some academic interest we shared, and come out of it with them being almost bothered by me. I was sick of learning to use training wheels with the girls I'm actually really interested in and sabotaging the occasional one who outright expressed interest in me. So, at this point, next time I go on a date with one of these girls, I don't think I'm going to f*ck it up by making the interaction this completely asexual, platonic thing by ignoring her signals and being totally boring by not really letting her get to know me as a person, but rather as a scientist, which is honest to god not me as a person.

KenM, I agree with Dhp.

I went thru a phase in my early 20's when I seemingly ran into the worst examples of womanhood you could ever imagine, then constantly got friendzoned, primarily for lack of reading signals she was not into me (the old body language thing) and partly because I chased, bought flowers and acted needy, scaring them away.

Women really want someone to communicate on their level, which is (not to sound sexist) generally more emotional than men seem to be. Men will tell you about the time they skateboarded and fell over this big cliff and got out with barely a scratch and laugh it off as a rite of manhood passage, whereas women would more than likely talk about the fear of that occurrence that would be conjured up in their mind.

There is a great woman out there - but you will have to work to find her and keep her (even supposing fate lends a hand which it does a lot of the time). Just don't broad-brush all women on this "quality" you seem to be experiencing or that anti-woman aura will reek a mile away and your experiences will be a self-fulfilled prophesy of sadistic rejection.

Please do yourself a favor and read up on "Ladder Theory" and also read "The Secret".

Best,
PMPP

I am working on not looking at all women like this. I'm getting better I think. But when a few different women in a row treat you like this, its hard not to generialize. I am not say that my generalizing is right.

I never heard of Ladder Theory, but to be honest I am not to keen on reading anything endorsed by Oprah like "the secret"

I have been working on trying to read body languge better. But I just can't do it. Unless its a very obvious signal I miss it.

OK here's a link to the Ladder Theory, and it's been around since 1994; and I sure hope it was never on Oprah as I do not like that know-it-all. But if it had been it would still be just as valid.

http://www.laddertheory.com/

BTW every man has seemingly run into a streak of such women but just stay cool and legit ones will show up eventually.

I quickly read that link. To me it looked like how to get women into bed. I am not talking about that. If I want sex i can go out and get an escort.

I am looking for a relationship. I also want women to be honest with me. The one I picked up from the airport I was just friends with and I was fine with that. But I felt she was not respceting me as a person let alone a friend when I catch her in those lies after I asked her to be honest with me.

The women I saw before that we started off as friends and it grew. It was really good, but then I found out she was smoking pot. Alot. I come from a family that have alot of alcohol and drug issues. She knew this was a deal breaker but she would not stop. It got to the point where all she did around me was smoke pot, non stop. I can't be around that.