whats diff in avoidance AS v BPD

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hi

In reading peoples posts it seems people are agreed that people push people away and avoid emotional intimacy if they have BPD, however I thought it was viewed as common for people with AS to also push people away and avoid emotional intimacy.

Please could someone enlighten me as to the differences?

Considering my ex-girlfriend and my two best friends have BPD and I'm an Aspie, I do think I can help you answer your question.

Neurotypical people filter most of the information that enters their brain subconciously with their left amygdala. This filter tells them how to react to any external stimuli. It basically provides humans with instincts/intuition and empathy towards other people is one aspect thereof.

People with AS don't have such a filter for some reason. The amygdala is less active or less developed than among neurotypical people. As such, they have to learn how to reproduce all the information the amydgala produces by means of rational though patterns, which is very exhausting and often insufficient. The lack of empathy and the ability to pick up social cues makes Aspies often quite uncomfortable among other people and their bad experiences with other people often makes them very unwilling to trust anyone and/or shy.

People who have BPD do have a, active filter. However, often because of abuse and/or neglect during early childhood, their filter has become oversensitive in some areas and insensitive in other areas. As such, neutral situations instinctively feel dangerous and small character flaws become huge issues whereas intense emotions of people close to them are often ignored even when they're the very cause of those emotions (e.g. my ex-girlfriend put me through hell by giving me a "maybe" instead of a "yes" or a "no" with regards to getting back together and she doesn't seem to care about the fact that I almost went crazy because of it). Because of this oversensitivity to emotionally sensitive content, people with BPD are also often overwhelmed with many contradicting but equally strong emotions they cannot really pinpoint....

So basically.... people with BPD are have greater empathic input than NT people but tend to have incorrect intuitive input, whereas people with AS have no empathic input and no intuitive input whatsoever. The symptoms are oposite but related because they take place in the same parts of the brain and both are socially ackward in some ways....

when she messed you about saying 'maybe', how would that different to an AS person messing you about by not commiting?

I find it hard to compare because I'm a "steady relationship" kind of guy and I've never considered any girlfiend I've had as anything but the potential future mother of my children.

People with BPD tend to have a problem commiting because they feel more comfortable with people when they're at a safe distance. It is possible that some people with AS have developed similar mechanisms to cope with their anxieties, however the neurological root cause of the underlying anxieties is pretty much the exact oposite for people with BPD and AS.

So you think it would be the same behaviour with differing neurological causes?

Do you think if AS people displayed that behaviour it means they also had BPD?

Similar behavior with both different social and different neurological factors involved.



No. I even doubt that combination is possible since they seemingly have oposite causes. However, there does seem to be an overlapse in symptoms between "Giftedness", "Asperger's Syndrome", classic "autism", "ADHD", "BPD", "bi-polar disorder", "scizophrenia", "geeky/nerdish behavior" and various other peculiar conditions of the mind. Also, you often find various combinations of these conditions within the same family. For example, a girl or woman with BPD often comes from a family with men who have Asperger's Syndrome or some other Autism spectrum condition (somehow BPD is more common among women and Asperger's among men).

Compare and contrast:
Asperger's syndrome vs. borderline personality disorder

• Typical emotional aloofness vs. hypersensitive emotionality
• Dearth of social relationships vs. chaotic, intense relationships
• Intense interest in systems (physical/mechanical, theoretical, etc.) vs. intense interest in human relationships
• Inhibition and preference for routine vs. high impulsivity
• Self-stimulating or calming stereotypies vs. emotion-driven self-harm and self-mutilation
• Logical thought vs. highly emotional thought
• Indifference to social identity or simple, well-defined identity vs. identity confusion

As an Aspie I'm not empathic, but I do have a very vivid emotional life.



I actually end up in chaotic, intense relationships but due to my choice of women.



Once I came to see the intricate web of human relationship as an organic system, I became fascinated by it.



Although I do need a lot of routine in my daily life, I can be very impulsive at times.



The more extraverted Aspies like myself actually tend to get on people's nerves for talking too much about the same topics no one is interested in.



That's a major difference indeed.



Some people with BPD seem to have a pretty clear picture of themselves... They aren't all totally messed up.

To me it seems like your comparing charicatures.

Not every aspie is introverted or unemotional, but these are common associated features. If the aspie in question is more extraverted, their behavior is nevertheless likely to be a bit awkward or unusual (the "active but odd" category of aspies). These days, I may fall somewhat into that category at times myself, but I nonetheless have some difficulty telling whether I am boring or annoying people. Impulsivity is less common among people with Asperger's syndrome and more common in disorders along the ADHD/novelty or sensation seeking/acting-out spectrum, which includes borderline personality disorder.

Aspies may actually be more likely to end up with a woman with borderline personality disorder because of her rush to get into a relationship and her rapid idealization of her partner. This may make her more accepting of an aspie male than the typical woman. This could result in unstable relationships for the aspie too.

As I said, the more extraverted Aspies like myself actually tend to get on people's nerves for talking too much about the same topics no one is interested in. It's a totally different social problem from the one introverted Aspies have but the causes as the same.



You have to learn to pay attention to their verbal cues. Once you learn to pick up the signs, you might eventually pick up this sort of thing as easily as an NT person.

Many Aspies just continue to ramble on when really no one in the room is paying any attention. I used to do this myself and I know some Aspies who still do this. The trick here is to decrease your focus on the subject you're talking about and to increase your focus on your environment. If people are not really listening to you, they'll send out all sorts of signals. The most obvious ones are simply not making any comment to whatever you're saying (hoping you'll shut up if they don't intervene) or turning their body and/or face into another direction.



According to an official IQ test I've taken (WAIS-III) my mind processes data faster than about 99% of the human population and ever since I was a teenager I've sought for thrills every now and then. Spontaneous behavior from my part should be explained by these criteria. You could see it as a mixture of pseudo-spontaneity and risk-seeking behavior.



Interesting theory.

Neanthuman has exactly the theory I've had regarding AS men attracting BPD women, actually, and I've seen it first hand quite a few times. But the intensty of BPD women also attracts AS guys, I think, and the same may be true for AS women to BPD men.

Salon, you have pretty good points regarding the differences, I think, especially with regards to intimacy. But overall, I've noticed that the emotional avoidance of someone with AS is very stable, whereas with a BPD'd person the avoidance is part of a pendulum of extreme 'clingy' intimacy. I don't think the emotional outbursts of some people with ASDs look the same as someone with BPD. and although I'm sure they have their similarities, the triggers are often very different.

I searched some sites on BPD relationships to see what it said, i found it quite descriptive of my relationship. Some of it not, like making up lies and crazy stories, but some it rang very true, like always breaking up and wanting back and changing being extremely loving or pushing away. And always accusing of not caring enough and the like.

While I agree that someone with BPD will swing between extreme love and extreme distancing, you cannot generalize in the case of AS. Lack of empathic impulse processing is a symptom of AS but avoidance is not. Avoidance is common among people with AS because of that lack of empathic impulse processing and the problems it creates having normal social interactions but not everyone with AS has this behavior. In fact, I'm very extraverted and actually pretty needy when it comes to intimacy. Living on my own is a nightmare for me and I can barely wait until I find a new girlfriend.....



True.



How old is she? Teenage girls and women around their 20s may behave in a very similar way just because they're too immature. It doesn't always imply they have BPD.

I accuse you of not caring as when Im upset and trying to stop smoking you send very nasty text messages, that is not the behaviour of someone who cares!! !! !

Alot of when I dump you and then get back with you was because you convinced me to get back with you, however this time you have convinced me never to talk to you again so 'messing you about' wont happen again ok!

I tried to be loving to you because that is what you wanted but its not me so I cant keep it up. You always criticise and be mean unless Im being not myself so it makes me try harder to be loving and what you want. But I cant sustain it and end up being grumpy and resentful.

we were never suited and I wish I had never met you, I shall not forgive you for all the nasty things youve said to me in texts/phonecalls when im going through such a hard time and trying to stop smoking.

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Again we see why WrongPlanet.net does not support people trying to hash out their off line life between members on our forum.

Conduct
-----------
The following activities are unacceptable on WrongPlanet:

*Unacceptable content includes
behavior intended to provoke or belittle other members;and anything else that purposely causes conflict with other members.

* Personal attacks against people or other sites are not permitted. If you have an issue with someone, talk to them about it somewhere other than our forum.


this thread is locked.

Merle
Moderator