Board index › Coping in life › Love and Dating

Nice Guys and Love, what's your take on the issue

Page 31 of 78 [ 1243 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34 ... 78  Next

Previous topic | Next topic

Sound
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 3 Oct 2009
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 746
Location: Seattle

18 Feb 2010, 3:05 pm

Clearly you guys aren't fully reading what's been outlined.



GreyGhost
Hummingbird
Hummingbird

User avatar

Joined: 29 Oct 2009
Age: 44
Gender: Female
Posts: 23

19 Feb 2010, 6:49 am

I have a slightly different perspective: Not every guy who claims to be a "nice guy" really is. The guy's side may be "oh I'm a nice guy and I did nothing but good for this girl and how dare she dump me for him" but that does'nt mean the girl always feels he was so nice.



GreyGhost
Hummingbird
Hummingbird

User avatar

Joined: 29 Oct 2009
Age: 44
Gender: Female
Posts: 23

19 Feb 2010, 9:35 am

dtoxic wrote:
Salonfilosoof wrote:

People who were abused or neglected strangely enough behave in a similar fashion. Don't think you can help someone who was beaten or sexually molested by a family member by giving her your unconditional love. She will take advantage of you and the emotional hangover you get from such a relationship is immense.


I had an experience just like this EXCEPT I would leave out "she will take advantage of you". But the second sentence is absolutely true. I just don't blame the abused person. She didn't use me, but I still couldn't help her with my patience and understanding, and it was depressing that my trying supremely hard to be nice to her was not enough.


I can describe this exact situation from the girl's perspective. I have been abused and neglected and I would never treat someone as I have been treated. In fact, I am so terrified of hurting another person's feelings I sometimes can't be assertive enough to communicate my real needs in a relationship or to tell someone I am just not interested in him. Also, I fought very hard in my life to break free and to have my independence at all costs. I want to be free to make my own choices in life. I don't want or need to be "rescued."
Sometimes, ironically enough, when a guy tries to sweep in and "save" me, his behaviour reminds me of the exact situation I left. It's still control and it's still not ok. And chasing a girl extra hard and trying extra hard when she's made it clear it's not going to work is much more frightening and scary for the girl than it is charming. By far.
If a girl has made it clear she can't give you what you want or need in a relationship the best thing to do is break it off and move on and not try extra hard to fix what is supposedly wrong with her and try to force it out of her. Guys who don't respect boundries are not nice guys no matter what their motivation or label.
Sorry! I just have very strong feelings here.



Electricbassguy
Snowy Owl
Snowy Owl

User avatar

Joined: 17 Oct 2009
Gender: Male
Posts: 131
Location: Mountain View

22 Feb 2010, 5:12 am

Someone who proclaims themself a "nice" guy is not one... of course, I tend to do that, and I think I'm really nice too. :-P


It's really more about confidence.



ntchick
Tufted Titmouse
Tufted Titmouse

User avatar

Joined: 19 Nov 2008
Age: 54
Gender: Female
Posts: 41

01 Mar 2010, 6:07 pm

In defence of the women who "like men who act like []..."

Sometimes your judgement is not to blame.

Sometimes the surface of a person looks very different to what lies underneath.

Abusive men are extremely apt at showing one face in public and another in private. Often, you'd think he was a really nice, sweet guy, because he's learned to be that way to intimidate his beaten down woman even more. "Oh, he's lovely!", everyone else says, because that's what he appears to be to them - and to her at the beginning of the relationship. At home, after a couple of years of verbal abuse (and daily verbal abuse of even the strongest and toughest of people is going to wear them down), he isolates her from her friends and family so she doesn't have a support network. Once she feels entirely dependent on him, he starts to beat her. She feels like she has nowhere to go, no-one to support her but him. After he beats her, he treats her wonderfully, takes her out, buys her things, lulls her into a false sense of security, assures her that it will never happen again. But it keeps going.

It isn't HER fault.

It's his.



PLA
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 10 May 2007
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,929
Location: Sweden

02 Mar 2010, 2:50 am

ntchick wrote:
In defence of the women who "like men who act like []..."

Sometimes your judgement is not to blame.

Sometimes the surface of a person looks very different to what lies underneath.

Abusive men are extremely apt at showing one face in public and another in private. Often, you'd think he was a really nice, sweet guy, because he's learned to be that way to intimidate his beaten down woman even more. "Oh, he's lovely!", everyone else says, because that's what he appears to be to them - and to her at the beginning of the relationship. At home, after a couple of years of verbal abuse (and daily verbal abuse of even the strongest and toughest of people is going to wear them down), he isolates her from her friends and family so she doesn't have a support network. Once she feels entirely dependent on him, he starts to beat her. She feels like she has nowhere to go, no-one to support her but him. After he beats her, he treats her wonderfully, takes her out, buys her things, lulls her into a false sense of security, assures her that it will never happen again. But it keeps going.

It isn't HER fault.

It's his.


Well, obviously.
More interesting would be an actual preference for being treated poorly.


_________________
I can make a statement true by placing it first in this signature.

"Everyone loves the dolphin. A bitter shark - emerging from it's cold depths - doesn't stand a chance." This is hyperbol.

"Run, Jump, Fall, Limp off, Try Harder."


monsterland
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Age: 47
Gender: Male
Posts: 837
Location: San Francisco, CA

02 Mar 2010, 5:24 am

GreyGhost wrote:
I have a slightly different perspective: Not every guy who claims to be a "nice guy" really is. The guy's side may be "oh I'm a nice guy and I did nothing but good for this girl and how dare she dump me for him" but that does'nt mean the girl always feels he was so nice.


Yeah. This thread has the highest amount of self-professed "nice guys" I've ever seen. I don't actually believe that most who call themselves nice guys, actually are. I understand "nerdy". I understand "shy". But what the hell is "nice", except for a bigoted term meant to differentiate oneself as better-than-others ? "There are regular guys... but I'm a NICE guy". Yeah, that speaks volumes.



Sound
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 3 Oct 2009
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 746
Location: Seattle

02 Mar 2010, 5:41 am

PLA wrote:
More interesting would be an actual preference for being treated poorly.
Women don't have a preference for being treated poorly. It's other factors that are keeping them hooked, not the mistreatment itself. s**thead guys could be incredibly sexy, good in bed, wealthy, influential, exotic, constantly mysterious, etc. Sometimes it's more complex, like being invested in changing a guy, and even more weird stuff. And sometimes it's not that the s**thead is so great, so much as the 'nice guy' is simply not nearly as sexy by comparison. In the end, if a guy continually get's passed over by women for some other, lamer hook-up, it's pretty much always the guys' fault in some way.



PLA
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 10 May 2007
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,929
Location: Sweden

02 Mar 2010, 12:04 pm

PLA wrote:
Well, obviously.
More interesting would be an actual preference for being treated poorly.


_________________
I can make a statement true by placing it first in this signature.

"Everyone loves the dolphin. A bitter shark - emerging from it's cold depths - doesn't stand a chance." This is hyperbol.

"Run, Jump, Fall, Limp off, Try Harder."


RossMc
Snowy Owl
Snowy Owl

User avatar

Joined: 3 Oct 2009
Age: 66
Gender: Male
Posts: 147

03 Mar 2010, 12:58 pm

Everything has changed since I was a kid. The idea of a woman not having a regular guy in her life was considered something to be pitied. The culture has changed. Men needed a woman in their life since they needed someone to cook and clean for them. Both sexes needed a steady of the opposite sex just so they could keep their families from bugging them, and not be accused of being gay. Men didn't do housework in the old days. I got a taste of this back in 1985 when I walked into a coin laundry in a poor mostly Portuguese neighborhood, and I was stared at by a roomful of about 25 women.
Back in 1970, when I was 12, there was no AIDS. Everyone knew a few homosexuals. They had to stick to a few gay jobs- hair stylists, gym teachers etc., and they got beat up now and then. Bodybuilders were a weird, despised fringe. Only a few nerds were interested in computers. There was head-banging rock music, but people stopped listening to it when they were about 18. If you were over about 30 years old, you were considered middle-aged and over the hill. In 1976, I remember being stared at for going outside to smoke at a party. McDonalds and Dunkin Donuts had little aluminum ashtrays on the tables and counters.



callumosborne
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker

User avatar

Joined: 19 Mar 2010
Age: 26
Gender: Male
Posts: 53

20 Mar 2010, 9:07 pm

why is it i find that the mean,the jerk ect ect are always the people who get the girls, nice sensible people get usually none and clever as well. :?



FabulousFemale
Butterfly
Butterfly

User avatar

Joined: 24 Mar 2010
Age: 51
Gender: Female
Posts: 15
Location: Down South on the Bay

25 Mar 2010, 3:41 pm

AutisticMalcontent wrote:
Well I'm going to cite off a cliche' that everyone is familiar with- "Nice guys finish last". I am a strong believer in this cliche', the reasons being very simple, according to what I've observed. First off all, nice guys are typically "normal" and are not nearly as interesting/exciting and wild as overly confident guys/jerks/charming guys. Note that I am not using jerks as a synonym for all confident guys romantically, just a select group. Secondly, nice guys tend to be shy and not nearly as assertive romantically like confident guys tend to be. And finally, nice guys, in their shyness, don't understand about how to approach girls/women romantically, and therefore they appear awkward around them.

These are the reasons why nice guys fail I believe. But I also have another belief and I'm curious as to how many agree with me on this. Since nice guys are often rejected because of their shyness, girls tend to go out with guys that exude confidence, and who also tend to be jerks after a while. This is my opinion, I think that girls who reject nice guys and date jerk-type guys more than deserve the heartache they will eventually feel, whether it be a bad breakup, being used, or whatever else. I'm not saying that every girl has to date one particular nice guy, but I'm saying that if a girl rejects a nice guy for a jerk, isn't it fitting that she pay the consequence of her choice? Kind of like the physics principle "For every reaction there is a opposite and equal reaction"? Just my thoughts, tell me what you guys think ;)


I just responded to your "bad boy" post, and here is another from you. Stop trying to excuse your awful behavior.

Nice guys do NOT always equate to being shy and insecure. I know "nice guy" business owners who are very confident and secure, but not in an arrogant way, just a friendly way.

I'd give my right arm for an intelligent, confident, honest, good-looking nice-guy. I've dated more nice guys than I can count -- they were either too insecure or I wasn't attracted to them physically.

Physicality brings those pheromones to mind......I've seen men who, on the surface, look VERY attractive, but when I get in their physical presence, I don't have the desire to sleep with them. Does that make sense? Makes me wonder what all is truly involved in the chemistry of physical attraction -- for me, it's not all about the physical.

Nice guys who are masculine turn me on, but I can't define masculine......sometimes it's the way a man carries the suit and tie he is wearing. Or the way he is standing. A man can be masculine in a suit or in shorts and sandals, but not all men. I dunno. When I figure it out, I'll write a book on the subject. :P


_________________
"If you think you can, or think you can't, you're right." ~Henry Ford

"It has been my observation that most people get ahead during the time that others waste." ~Henry Ford


PLA
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 10 May 2007
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,929
Location: Sweden

25 Mar 2010, 4:29 pm

FabulousFemale wrote:
Physicality brings those pheromones to mind......I've seen men who, on the surface, look VERY attractive, but when I get in their physical presence, I don't have the desire to sleep with them. Does that make sense? Makes me wonder what all is truly involved in the chemistry of physical attraction -- for me, it's not all about the physical.

Smell, I'd guess.


_________________
I can make a statement true by placing it first in this signature.

"Everyone loves the dolphin. A bitter shark - emerging from it's cold depths - doesn't stand a chance." This is hyperbol.

"Run, Jump, Fall, Limp off, Try Harder."


FabulousFemale
Butterfly
Butterfly

User avatar

Joined: 24 Mar 2010
Age: 51
Gender: Female
Posts: 15
Location: Down South on the Bay

25 Mar 2010, 5:21 pm

PLA wrote:
FabulousFemale wrote:
Physicality brings those pheromones to mind......I've seen men who, on the surface, look VERY attractive, but when I get in their physical presence, I don't have the desire to sleep with them. Does that make sense? Makes me wonder what all is truly involved in the chemistry of physical attraction -- for me, it's not all about the physical.

Smell, I'd guess.


Well, it's an odor I can't smell then (and I have very keen senses). There is just something about some really good-looking men that turns me off in a very big way. A famous example I can think of is that Jake guy -- he was on that show The Bachelor (icky) and is now on Dancing with the Stars (what a corny season that is going to be this year!). He seems fake, or plastic -- something I can't put my finger on -- even though he seems really nice and is super good-looking, he nauseates me on some level. He turns me off and I haven't even been in his physical presence (guess it's not ALL about those elusive pheremones).

Maybe I'm just too picky. But we're all turned on or turned off by different things -- can't change that, especially if I can't even identify the trigger.


_________________
"If you think you can, or think you can't, you're right." ~Henry Ford

"It has been my observation that most people get ahead during the time that others waste." ~Henry Ford


milascave
Butterfly
Butterfly

User avatar

Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 9

26 Mar 2010, 5:06 am

Two pounts here:
1: The bad boy routine works a lot better when you are a boy. Bad boys in theire fourties and over are kind of pathetic. Women by that age have usualy outgrown that routine, and the younger ones wont be very intersted in your bad self.
2: Lets face it, being bad is dangerouse. Nice guys finish last because they tend to live longer.



PLA
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 10 May 2007
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,929
Location: Sweden

26 Mar 2010, 5:10 am

FabulousFemale wrote:
PLA wrote:
FabulousFemale wrote:
Physicality brings those pheromones to mind......I've seen men who, on the surface, look VERY attractive, but when I get in their physical presence, I don't have the desire to sleep with them. Does that make sense? Makes me wonder what all is truly involved in the chemistry of physical attraction -- for me, it's not all about the physical.

Smell, I'd guess.


Well, it's an odor I can't smell then (and I have very keen senses). There is just something about some really good-looking men that turns me off in a very big way. A famous example I can think of is that Jake guy -- he was on that show The Bachelor (icky) and is now on Dancing with the Stars (what a corny season that is going to be this year!). He seems fake, or plastic -- something I can't put my finger on -- even though he seems really nice and is super good-looking, he nauseates me on some level. He turns me off and I haven't even been in his physical presence (guess it's not ALL about those elusive pheremones).

Maybe I'm just too picky. But we're all turned on or turned off by different things -- can't change that, especially if I can't even identify the trigger.

Yeah, then it's probably not smell, unless you have smell tv. :)
But there are plenty of smells humans can react to but not really notice.


_________________
I can make a statement true by placing it first in this signature.

"Everyone loves the dolphin. A bitter shark - emerging from it's cold depths - doesn't stand a chance." This is hyperbol.

"Run, Jump, Fall, Limp off, Try Harder."