Sigh...Frustrated and confused.

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I seem to be in a funk. I desire to approach other guys and start dating again. However all of my social oddity's are coming back. I find it much easier to approach someone I have not met before that I am not romantically interested in. Every time I find someone who interests me romantically I freeze internally, sometimes i'll get drunk and "spill the punch," so to speak. (i.e. I will say too much and push them away unintentionally.)

A great example of this would be my birthday party on Tuesday night. There is a neighbor boy (He is Bisexual.) that I have a keen interest in and according to others it also seemed to them he felt the same. (I should mention I have known him for about 4 months now and we have formed a really strong friendship.) I guess it was obvious from the way we were all over each other on Tuesday night. We were embracing each other rubbing on each other, non sexually, and over all teasing each other. My sister told me that she thought there was an extreme interest, even after watching his behavior with me for a bit of the morning the day after. However my sister was not the only one who noticed, another good friend randomly came up to me and said, "Jon, I think He really likes you. You should pursue him." The problem is I thought I did the right thing the next night. I pulled him aside and told him that I was sorry for my silly drunk behavior. To which he responded that did not remember, so I refreshed his memory. Then he looks at me and says "I bet it was pleasurable." I told him yeah it was, thanks for the random drunk birthday present . He smiles and said your welcome, gave me a hug and put his arm around me. I then decided to invite him to the College World Series the next day, he said that it sounded like fun and he would be here in the morning. Now here is where I put my foot in the mouth, I then apologized again and told him about told him about Asperger's a bit and said it was likely that I had it. He seemed genuinely interested in hearing about it. He told me he really wanted to hear about Asperger's and what it entails. Then the next day comes and he does not show. I asked him about it last night and it he gave the same excuse he did before. "I'm sorry I don't know why." I replied back, "Yeah you do, you had friends come in from out of town yesterday." (It is true that he has friends in from out of town. I figured it would be polite to brush it off on that for him.)

My question is, where did I go wrong and how can I better avoid this in the future? Or am I possibly reading into it at this point?
I am thinking I am not reading it wrong as he seems to be avoiding coming over and when he does, it just feels awkward, and it seems to be awkward for him as well.

Really even if it does not work out, I value his friendship too much to not have him around.

Well, if I were the guy in this situation, I would have taken your apology for your "drunken behavior" as an excuse to accomplish any of the following: pretend that what happened didn't happen; give the impression that what happened didn't mean anything because you were drunk; imply that you wouldn't have engaged in the same type of behavior if you'd been sober....none of those options seem flattering to me. Instead of taking advantage of the flirtation to advance the relationship, you did just the opposite: moved it right back to platonic friendship, and added a hint of rejection.

So if this guy interpreted your actions the same way I did, I'm not surprised he blew you off (although I don't condone standing you up at all - that's just rude). But what's with the mind games? Why didn't you just tell him what happened between you two made you realize how awesome he is, and ask him if he felt the same way?

It always amazes me how easy it is to unknowingly convey the veneer of discursive unspoken social language without having any idea of how it works or what it happens to be doing to you at that particular moment.

Update:

I waited a couple of day then I handed him a letter I wrote. I explained Asperger's a little bit and how I think it effects me. I also told him that I realized after seeking some advice that what I had said was not meat as rejection, that I was just trying to find out if he was interested in me. (Sigh, why I even said i'm sorry in the first place is a mystery to me.) I told him that I really liked him and would like to get the chance to get to know him and that maybe something beautiful will transpire. I stated that I still wanted to be his friend regardless.

I saw him later that night, he held out his arm to give me a hug, was showing all the signs that he has interest in me. Eye contact, changing body position to mimic my own, and other obvious signs. (I decided to research some dating advice websites and found they helped immensely.) We stayed up with a couple of my roommates and his roommates watching Star Trek: Voyager. (We are currently on a Voyager marathon.) Then the night ended with a hug and him beaming from ear to ear.

I saw him the next day (Wednesday) and asked him if he wanted to go on a bike ride tomorrow. (Thursday or today.) He said yeah, but lets make it towards the evening. I told him that would probably cooler and more enjoyable and then he looked at me and said so we can watch the sunset. He came over earlier today and while we where on the porch, he mentioned a couple of times about taking the red pill, or the blue pill and which one to take. Finally I asked if he still wanted to ride and we set up a time of 7:30pm, however he stood me up.

I am wondering as he is a bit younger than me (20) if he has even been in a relationship with another guy. We were talking just fine until my roommates left to go to the gas station and then it was just awkward until I asked about the bike ride. I honestly can not blame him for standing me up, I have done the same. I will internally panic and just decided to not go even though I really want to. My personal opinion is that I should maybe give him some time to adjust to the idea of it while remaining flirty, yet not overly so. Wait a week or two. It is obvious to many people that he is still interested. Sometimes I wonder if he is actually more like me than I thought. I don't know anyone willing to offer some advice. I would appreciate it greatly.

Hmmm.....well this may sound strange, but are you sure the young man is gay? If you're sure he's gay, do you know if he's had any actual sexual experiences with another guy?

Let's put aside the idea that he's just messing with you (while he's definitely sending some mixed signals, from what you've said I'm not getting the sense that he's deliberately trying to upset and confuse you). If we rule that out, a few possible explanations spring to mind: could he be a virgin - or at least someone who has had no same-sex sexual experience to date? That whole "red pill/blue pill" reference (which I'm assuming is all Matrix-y, right?)....meant to symbolize a Rubicon of sorts: either accept that a huge change in your relationship is about to take place, or basically agree to act like nothing ever happened? He seems awfully timid if this is just about taking the leap on a relationship with you - it seems bigger than that to me....so that's why I thought it could be a virginity issue (or at least a same-sex virginity issue).

It also occurred to me that he may also be Aspie (undiagnosed, and possibly uneducated - at least until he got your letter). That whole just not showing up thing is unusual....it just speaks to a higher level of anxiety or discomfort (or something) than going on a simple bike ride should evoke. If not ASD, maybe some other type of social anxiety disorder?

It might also just be plain old "vanilla" abuse/trust/intimacy issues that are freaking him out. What do you know about his past? Do you know anything about his relationship with his family?

I think the idea of giving him time is a good one....obviously at some point you're going to have to talk to him directly to see if he wants to explore a romantic relationship with you, but maybe for now see if you can do a little 007 work and see if you can learn anything about him that might shed some light on his behavior.

I am glad that you wrote the letter and cleared the air between you two. That took courage, and I really think it was the right thing to do - good for you.

This is what Craiglist is for. You'll get all of the guy-on-guy lovin' you could ever want and no one will judge you for it.

Update 2:

Today I was outside doing my morning routine, smoking a cigarette, sipping on a cup of Joe and surfing the internet. He came over and we went inside and just sat and talked about me, my family, my friends, and his family and friends. I found out he is horrible with eye contact as well. His explanation was as vague as one of my explanations. He told me he should just not make plans, as he is horrible about following through. In social events with larger numbers of people we are the cats sitting off in the corner watching others. We took a long walk, laid in the grass in the park, swung on the swings, and I bought him ice cream. At one point he told me he was paranoid, I asked him why, he said that he felt he was sharing things he should not be normally sharing. However the walk continued. He told me that he was close to his family as well and has recently disconnected himself somewhat. Overall it ended on a good note, a smile and the possibility of going downtown later for a walk or possibly reggae night at Bones. We have very complimentary viewpoints and seem to agree on most things. He has a passion to leave a footprint on the world. We are both "hippies" in that we refuse the corporate culture and want to see a return to the American Dream. Starting your own business and living your life. Every time I am with him he seems to have to touch me on my arm or shoulder. After talking with some of my friends and his friends, I believe, although have not been told, that he is a same-sex virgin. I do know there is an attraction to guys, he has showed me plenty of pictures of guys that he thought were hot. He remembers previous conversations and asked me about many previous topics today. He is definitely interested, however I feel he is feeling similar anxiety as I am. I also know the last relationship he was in was a bad break-up. So that also is playing a role.

So I have currently decided to give it a week or two of just hanging out alone and talking and then possibly confront him depending on how he responds. I don't know any thoughts?

Sounds like he could be an undiagnosed Aspie (considering the eye contact, the level of social interaction, etc.)? You may be "kindred spirits" in more ways than you know.

Sounds kinda like progress to me, although progress in this relationship may come in starts and fits, particularly if he is a curious, same-sex virgin. But it seems like you're okay with that, and giving him time and space, so...I'm kinda (cautiously) happy for you! Let us know how it goes, okay?

Update 3:

He came back over Thursday night. We sat on my couch for hours, talking about Asperger's, in which he self identified, to Fibromyalgia as he described his body pain reminded me of it incredibly. As well he self identified. He also opened up and now I know why he has not decided one way or another. He had a relationship similar to my first extremely sexual relationship. (Took me a year to get over it.) He opened up saying "I really don't want to bring this up but..." Then explained he was in a very connected relationship between June 09 to December 09, during this time he impregnated her and they went the abortion route. Also they had considered moving in together. She is very passive and does not communicate directly. Whenever he tries to spend time with her she makes an excuse, like her apartment is too dirty, or last night over at hs house she stopped by briefly. He asked her to stay and she said she needed to get a block of cheese and everyone laughed at that. (Not him though obviously.) He went into the details about how everything was just conflict and arguing. However it was magical at the same time. Then we started to talk about our families and friends again and just continued sharing with each other. Then one of his roommates came over and we watched anime and drank some beer. He started squirming and making it obvious his back was hurting. (I should mention that I told him I give the world's best back rubs earlier in the park.) So I said "This may sound odd, however would you like a back rub." He looked at me smiled real big and said "Yeah!" So I had him on the floor in front of me, however I was working on his back and he said shouldn't I lay down, so I told him to lay on his back. I proceeded to give him a back rub for about an hour. My roommate during that time even came home with a couple of guys from the bar she was at. One was incredibly gay and the other was not. I have a feeling she thought I might find him interesting, sometimes I see her as a cat occasionally bringing home "presents." I had no interest, I had a one track mind. Obviously, I was giving a guy I liked an amazing back rub he seemed to be enjoying so throughly that the gay guy stated, are you sure you're not gay? Earlier it was asked, as I was giving him a back rub the entire time this invaders were here, if he was gay by the gay guy my roommate brought home. Obviously not gay, curious, bi oh for sure. However that was not brought up and the gay guy just sat there shocked. I was loving it. Finally the gay guy asked if anyone had a guitar to which my guy said "I have a two string guitar." So he said he was going to go back across the street to get a couple of things. I figured I would not see him again that night as the girl he likes still was over visiting his roommates. However he came back over, by this time my roommate had taken off with the two guys she brought over to go party more. I was talking to one of my other roommates who has Asperger's, yeah I seem to be like a lighthouse for them. Well he interrupted saying that he was sorry, however he needed to talk. I guess when he was over there he told them about my magical back rub and about Asperger's and fibromyalgia. Well the girl he liked went into what he deems "conflict" mode. She went off about how fibromyalgia is not real and is all in your mind and that completely tore him down. We talked for a bit and then he took off to go to bed.

Yesterday before work I stopped over to his porch to say hello. We chatted casually for a bit then said bye and have a nice day at work probably back and forth 3 times. He went in his house and out twice and then just looked at me funny. I gave him the peace sign with my hand closest to him he reached his arm out and embraced me in a big hug.

After work, I ran into him at the bar as I was buying some tonic water. He was getting some beer so I slipped him 5 bucks and said here is my contribution. I had gone down to say hello to my same roommate from last night, she had a rough night so I thought I should spend some time with her. We all walked back to his house. The girl he liked showed up briefly, he asked her to stay and all she could talk about at that point was going and buying a block of cheese. She completely avoided giving him any reason other than the typical same excuses. After she took off his picked up his two string guitar and began playing, we all took turns,my contribution was Mary had a little lamb and something random. Then he started playing again and I grabbed the bongo drums and played along. His roommate came down and said the guitar was fine but keep the drums out of the mix. So he started playing again and I sang along, we really got into it. I love music it seems to me the essence of everything. We then ended back on my porch listening to music on my laptop and just chatting about bands and particular songs we loved. I choose one song and he asked me to hold his hand, although it was brief. I should mention we were fairly tipsy at this point. He started talking about her again, I know where he is right now, I do the same thing, get stuck in a logical loop and run the same scenario through my head even though I know nothing will come of it. It always makes me feel worse. We then sat and listened to some more music for a bit and finally said goodnight and went our separate ways. (I think he may have been more open last night had my Aspie roommate realized we wanted time alone together on the porch.) Neither the guy I like nor I will tell someone to go away.

So this is where it is at currently. He is obviously interested or he would not be going into such detail and being incredibly honest with me. Especially with the hug and wanting to hold my hand. I have a feeling he is on the fence as he knows if he chooses me, there will probably never be another chance with her again. Also I don't think he has ever had a committed relationship with another guy, I do know he has experimented before though. Thought? Suggestions?

Well clearly this is a complicated situation. Is he straight-identified to his family and friends? Or does he identify as bisexual? My concern is that if he's not out to his family and friends, you and whatever relationship you might have with him could be confined to some kind of "secret life" scenario. That wouldn't be healthy or happy for you.

You also have to consider his feelings for his would-be babymama - and who she is. From what you've described of her behavior, it seems that she's got something going on psychologically, socially, or developmentally. (The whole "block of cheese" thing is very unusual, as you've noted.) I guess what I'm trying to say is that you can't count on her behaving as a mature, rational, healthy person - and he still clearly has feelings for her. So that's another level of complexity.

I'm wondering what her understanding of this guy's orientation is, what she thinks their relationship status is, does she want to rekindle the relationship?

He's also very young, and still in the process of figuring out who he is personally and sexually - and he's Aspie (so he's probably less mature than the typical 20 year old).

You two seem to be able to communicate pretty well - so if you can communicate as successfully about these kinds of tricky subjects (over time), that will be a really helpful asset in navigating this relationship. At this point, I advise an overabundance of caution, and urge you to take things slowly. And based on how smitten you are with this guy, I don't expect you to take that advice. But at least try to keep your wits about you, okay?

Update:

On the fourth of July I had a chance to talk with his best friend about him. I told his best friend what was going on and he was actually relieved, I guess he has been talking about bisexuality recently to him. What I came to the realization was that, even though it was not said. I really feel the best thing I can do for him, since I care so much, is to give him time and space. Hang around him, let him get used to the idea of me, even if it just ends in a beautiful friendship. Another reason I have decided this, I guess word traveled pretty fast about our flirting on my birthday. The girl he like has been coming around more often, including over here at my house when he is not around. It seems a little odd to me that this is occurring and I have decided to err on the side of caution. I feel that this is not coincidence. I can't really put my finger on it, however I feel like she may feel like I am trying to touch her "meat" so to speak. If that is the case, I really hate drama and would rather him come to me than me being selfish and foolishly pursuing him. Could something happen still, yeah I feel it could. He always smiles really big around me when I am around, he is kind of shy a lot of the time around me and not others. Also he'll hand me cigarettes and pay for beer or such frivolous things. He is always polite and states his intentions, example, if he is over and needs to do something he'll ask to use the bathroom, sit down, or let me know why he is leaving. There are still the obvious signs of interest. I feel he needs more time to sort his thoughts out and to get out of the logical loop he has created. From what he has told me about her, he knows it is mostly in his head that there could be a chance of getting back with her. I guess even his roommates and best friend are completely against it. He had a very sexual relationship, with a lot of arguing, or conflict as he calls it.

I finally just started thinking as if it was me in his situation, what would I be thinking and how would I react. So far using this approach he seems to have loosened up around me. I just realized that by continuing to keep pursuing him like I have been may push him away from me even as a friend, that is what I would do. Especially if I still liked someone else and had an interest in a new person. I would want that new person to respect my boundaries and listen to me and be my friend and then when I was ready I may come around.


Also he encouraged me to start laying the ground work for my life long dream, creating an urban farm project that includes community housing, a restaurant, a free community school and rehabilitation center, with a radio station and TV programs. I now have many people backing "Project Omaha." My family, members of the community, teachers, principals, and just about anyone I talk to wants to be a part of this. Time to talk about the issues everyone avoids and help create a better place for people to live. I really like him, we have almost the same life goals, so this is why I must respect him and be cautious and slow. He gave me the motivation I needed to start my project. I just know I can make a huge impact in the lives of many. One day I started crying while telling people how much I care about the world and how I am unusual in how I can see past the flaws and continue to see the person no matter how horrible they might be on the outside. I feel like I have hope again. Wow, guess I am smitten, at least this time I am going to face my anxieties and learn to deal with them. I may have Asperger's however as Michael John Carley said in his book "Asperger's from the Inside Out" use your knowledge of having it as a chance to improve your skills and to overcome your fears and anxieties.


Just wanted to keep ya posted.