Why Not "Just Be Yourself"

Post Reply New Topic

I'm not a very controlling person, nor am I the jackass kind of guy most women seem to cream their pants over. Truth is, I've learned woman say one thing but mean the exact opposite. I dunno why, but they do... Most women want a controlling man, or a man who will treat her like dirt. This is why I'm always getting turned down for hair-brained jocks and s**t. Honestly, I can't be an as*hole like that, it makes me feel bad about myself

The thing about jerks is that they're active, outwards, and exhibit a certain kind of devil-may-care attitude. That's what I believe women are actually attracted to. And you can have that without being a prick.

On a related note, upon re-reading the node on Everything2, I decided to start the Six Rejections Game about a week ago. The objective, basically, is to get rejected six times over the course of a year. I believe this might be a good idea for anyone who finds it hard to be active in this area of life (such as myself). My reasoning is that it sets a certain goal, while simultaneously alleviates the fear of rejection and thus takes out some of the edge from approaching women and helps you be yourself in the positive sense of the expression by turning the whole thing upside down, into a silly game - where you're actually out to get rejected.

Punishing people tends to have two results.

The person punished learns the lesson 'don't get caught', and they tend to not have much respect for people.

Pfft, I've won this game multiple times this year. Getting rejected is easy when you're an Aspie!

There is also no doubt in my mind that it takes being a "bad guy" that girls actually speak out against in order to get 'em. While girls don't look for physically abusive guys, the guys they do look for are usually emotionally abusive, rude, and overall, not nice. Nice guys don't take risks. Girls don't want you to know it, but they want guys that take risks. Risks like kissing. Girls are often saying that they don't want guys kissing them on a first or second date, and they've even tried to make unwanted kisses classified as rape (which thankfully the courts didn't allow).

Oddly enough, I know more single girls as I get older and into my 20s. A lot of girls now want a guy, but can't find a bad enough guy and would rather remain single than go out with a nice guy. They can't figure out why they can't find a guy they "like". As guys grow up and get more mature, fewer and fewer of them are the desirable rapping gangsta that girls dream of.

I haven't. Since I haven't even tried. And that's one of the first problems I need to fix, right?

And, I'm repeating myself, but again, I don't see why it wouldn't be possible to assume all the positive qualities of the "bad guy" without incorporating any of the negative ones. If it weren't possible, then most, if not all, of my friends would be single. Ok, sure. AS is going to make it more difficult. But we already have a lifetime experience of that. And I think most of us would agree that it is possible to adjust yourself into being more functional in other aspects of life, social or otherwise. So why not this one?

So yes. Nice guys finish last. But for crying out loud, can't we get rid of the nice guy/bastard good vs. evil dichotomy already? There's a lot more to human existence than that.

Don’t fool yourself. Woman attracted to men who are good at climbing the social pecking order. They do this by being aggressive to their fellow walves until they can take on the Alpha Male himself.

Last edited by Aspie_Chav on 05 Oct 2006, 2:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

By all means, keep getting defeated in a battle that doesn't exist, if that's what you want. Meanwhile, I'll be focusing on something else.

Been reading sosuave.com? So have I. Ok, a lot of it is total BS that's just about as healthy for men as Cosmopolitan is for women, but on the other hand, a lot of it gives some quite reasonable ideas how to develop your life philosophy, adjust your attitudes and make yourself a more well-rounded person - in all aspects of life, not just women. Here's how one of the more articulate writers describes their ideal man, the "Don Juan", with bold tags added by me for emphasis:

That's the sort of person I'm going to try to develop myself into, to the extent that I can. Not the jerk who's too consumed by his own Alpha Maleness to actually be really in tune with himself and the world.

Many Aspies and NTs are going to agree with you what you are saying. But how does an Aspie become funny, charming, charismatic, funny, become a good conversationalist. There is enough people already telling us what we need but how do we get it. Do we learn just from experience? Some of us have been around with loads of experience without any luck at all.

To learn what an Aspie is suppose to do in a social situation it better to learn about the natural laws of nature because we humans are a part of nature. A part of nature is struggle, conflict and wars. The war humans have to fight in a daily basis the Social Pecking Order and how to climb it high enough to find some attracted to you.

Experience is required, but being the people we are, I believe we also need active, conscious observation and perhaps a bit of underlying theory.

"Funny" is the easiest to theorize. Laughter is basically our brains' way of saying "ERROR: Logical discrepancy". We laugh at the unexpected. We laugh at the seamless combination of familiar and unfamiliar. We laugh when logic is turned upside down, or blatantly disregarded. The next time you observe groups of people, keep this in mind. When someone says something that the group considers funny, make mental notes, accordingly.

The rest are a bit more tricky. For me, at least. However, let's start from the idea that AS is "a blessing and a curse". Now, how can we turn our traits into assets?

Well. Just look at any classic Western film: the "silent type" has always been considered charismatic. It might get a bit in the way in becoming a good conversationalist, but remember that at least half of conversational skill, often more than half, is the ability to be a good listener. Charming? Much of "charming" relies on the "charmee". Many people find an original outlook on the world charming. Most of us have spent enough time inside our heads to have gathered enough original thinking for three lifetimes!

And of course, the amount of social discourse theory and self improvement material available on the Internet and on library shelves vastly outspans the knowledge of any singular person. Research the matter, observe your surroundings, draw parallels. Test your conclusions in practice, and adapt what seems to work.

Besides, that "Don Juan" qualities list is in no way a minimum requirements list. Among my friends I've seen all kinds of people end up in relationships; people with beach ball bodies, people with the charisma of a glass of water, people with all the confidence of a tower of matches. None of them have had to rely on vanquishing and subjugating their fellow man. The one advantage they've all had over me is intuition. We're intelligent people here. We can substitute intuition by learning.

Humour is a tool NTs use for bonding with others. You should see how NTs especially woman laugh at such non funny things. Humour can also be a weapon for mockery of the enemy. This can be done in so many different and creative ways. Because NTs are not logical they don’t use reasoning to put someone down.

Humour is also a very good manipulation tool. You can use it to make a statement or an argument. Then say you are just joking if it all turns pear shaped or use it to make a statement not so serious because you are using it to a friend. I have seen NTs use this many times.

Many Aspies don’t have that kind of humour, and they don’t really laugh at something that is illogical. Since humour is a tool used for socializing (making fiends and attacking enemies) , Aspies have little use for them, they would only be a distraction away from their special scientific interests and hobbies.

Conclusion: Humour is a weapon for climbing up the Social Pecking Order.

I think I'd call that 'being your best self' and yeah, that's pretty much my strategy now not even just with women but with life and just my own overall self-esteem in general. As far as dealing with conformity on that one, the more you pay attention the more you learn and you figure that you can work from within those boundaries.

Back on topic though I really think these strategies are different for every guy/girl, different on what your looking for in who, if you try to look at any one of these things (whether it's the David DeAngelo approach, this approach, or the approach your mom or dad told you to have) as a catch-all your looking at a myth. Part of becoming your best self is also figuring out what kinds of people help you empower yourself just by the kinds of energies they provide and even then you really don't wanna mess with it until you can at the least do the same for them.

What I'm really starting to note about women is its not really just how flawless and defined your aura and presence are, its way more the emotionality you have in it. I'm still a bit shy to glow with confidence but it feels like that sort of emotion is starting to well up in me and I'm really starting to see major changes in who's attracted to me. If your unhappy, in emotional pain (especially if its longterm), not feeling validated in general, it really doesn't matter what your reasons are or how valid they are - if it shows on the outside then someone of the opposit sex (guys probably work this way to an extent too) will see someone who's in a lower emotional state and they don't want to be around someone who'll bring em down. Might sound a bit childish but its one of those things people give into so globally and unanimously that I think it can be written down as just another component of natural law.

I read the article, and it's consistent with what I've been studying about psychology in dating. You have to adapt to new ways of interacting with others if you want to be successful. People don't respond to what they 'should' do--they usually respond on gut-level, primal instincts, and many of these instincts are not logical to individuals, but instead have served a ruthlessly effective purpose in selecting ideal mating material within our species, leaving many individuals frustrated and alone.

I finally hit the breaking point a bit over a year ago when I did what I 'should' do in the conventional sense, and just being myself as a nice guy, and I was thoroughly abused as a result, over and over. I realized that as an Aspie, I absolutely had to study, practice, and do whatever it takes to do better socially. Since then, I've learned more about human nature than I ever wanted to, and a lot of it is disappointing, frustrating, crazy, ruthless, and sometimes just plain evil. But human nature is also a system that follows certain rules, and those rules and the skills that use them are all learnable.

cobalt, the real killer though is that even know-how can only be utilized if your nervous system has the routing or mechanisms to support it. I started on that same route you just mentioned pretty hard back when I was 20, have been at it for 6 years, and far more of the barriers are the things that no amount of practice or sheer willpower seem like they can drill though. Very good advice and I agree that to have any hope at all (unless you just hit those lotto odds and meet an aspie significant other just right for you in your area) you have to play their game as best you can, roll your aspie flaws off the way they'd roll their flaws off, use the same devices to set the necessary scenareos up that just have to happen for people to feel like your words have any meaning.... all that stuff that while making life way harder than it needs to be part of the test to see if your even alpha enough to deserve someone is encoded into making it that complex. Not to negate what I said earlier, I think both aspects go hand in hand and it is natural instinct at the bottom line of it all, but one size or one angle or approach doesn't always completely fit all.

I've come across this site before. I admit, I like to read stuff on it and post time to time. It's not that I believe this approach works, or would even use it if it did, but getting a glimpse into the minds of guys that do think this way is pretty interesting. I'm sure girls read it too for that.

It's kind of a balance I suppose, between control and using psychological tactics and stuff in relationships to make them work and so you won't lose them. But at the same time, it gets so mechanical with guys like this that they seem to do it just for the sex, and do they even enjoy it?

At the other end, you have people who neglect attempting to maintain or remain with some degree of control and lose the relationship or get obsessful or something like that. Love can be like an addictive drug so you should retain SOME independance.