Meaning of "nice guys finish last"?

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So the phrase "nice guy finish last". It doesn't make sense to me. Women in relationships always complain about how their bf is not treating them well and stuff. So apparently women are really picky and they want a guy that is "not too nice, not too mean"? I'm confused

Does that phrase even have truth in it in the REAL world? I am just curious to know, since this phrase got me confused.

Most of the nice guys I know are either engaged or married (to their high school or college sweetheart, too), so I really doubt that the phrase has any truth in the real world.

smarmy, holier-than-thou, using the word 'nice' as an excuse guys finish last.
real good guys are happy and don't have to use the phrase.

It means guys who treat girls like friends give or take a little dont get ass. You gotta be a little bit kick to em'

I think it means that nice guys can be push-overs.
You can be nice, but at the same time know what you want and go for it!
A leader is a leader when they now exactly who they need to be nice to. lol!

From what I've heard, there are many "nice" qualities that women find unattractive, for instance...

- Buying presents and doing unrequested favors, i.e. bribing

- Agreeing with everything someone says

- Putting someone on a pedestal and worshipping them

- Labeling oneself as a "nice guy", i.e. being holier-than-thou

- Not standing out in any way

Jerks are more up-front, less predictable, and stand out more. Jerks are also more sexually expressive and outgoing, which women like because they are highly sexual beings as well (as much as society may tell you otherwise).

That's just my take on the issue. But I have no direct experience with women, so what do I know?

EDIT: I believe this post has been misinterpreted. Please understand that I am not trying to defend "nice guys", only to explain to the OP what it is about them that makes them unattractive. I do not condone "nice guy" behavior, and I'm not using the term "jerk" in a derogatory sense (if someone can think of a better word for the opposite of a nice guy, feel free to tell me). Nor am I making a complaint about women.

Last edited by LordoftheMonkeys on 15 Jan 2011, 9:32 pm, edited 3 times in total.

"nice guys" in this sense are women hating guys who feel entitled, they call themselves nice guys, but aren't. They are who this phrase is refering to.

I'm sorry, maybe I didn't hear you correctly?
Women don't like gifts or worshiping? Women don't like confident men? Oh, Women don't like men who stand out? Wow, I should double check my organs. Wait, yes.... I think I'm female. Maybe I like losers or something. Is it opposite day?

People probably revert to "nice guy" mode as a defense mechanism. They have been rejected over and over due to lack of sex appeal or some other factor, which deals a blow to their self-esteem that they must repair by trying to justify their failures. Trying to blame one's own misfortunes on someone else is human nature.

It reminds me of this adage: "If you view your problem closely enough, you will recognize yourself as part of the problem."

Oh, ya... I'm an Aspergian.

Seconded! It means that if you ignore your own needs in favor of everyone else you will be easy prey for opportunists. (Interestingly, Wikipedia says this phrase was coined in reference to baseball; wonder how true that was. I'm guessing in sports it implies the opposite: you have to be an opportunist to succeed.)

It does not mean to stop being nice; and I doubt that women are really put off by niceness. However, women who are giving conflicting signals in this way may mean that they're looking for a nice partner with a firm sense of boundaries and self-identity.

Hit it on the head. Yes woman are sexual beings but more selective.

What? I never said women don't like men who are confident or stand out. I was merely trying to explain why men who fit into the "nice guy" archetype are unattractive. I am not trying to defend "nice guys" here, and I'm sorry if I gave that impression.

Last edited by LordoftheMonkeys on 15 Jan 2011, 9:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I think the phrase can be extended beyond men.

People, in general, who are pushovers, finish last.

They expend too much of their resources to the point of putting themselves at some sort of unnecessary disadvantage and do not articulate their own needs, so those needs are never met

In Israel, calling someone a pushover, or a "frier" is a massive insult.

From an evolutionary standpoint, a woman may see a man who is a pushover as a bad thing because he is not frugal with his resource nor aggressive in the pursuit of them, or his needs. If she can't trust him to ensure his own needs are met when it's unreasonable that they shouldn't be, how can she trust him to actually ensure her needs, or the needs of their offspring are met?
Because he is not forthcoming with his own needs, how can she trust that he is being honest with her about them? His health and ability to function is vital to the family unit, and she has a responsibility in maintaining him, and she cannot tend to his needs if he does not articulate them.

I guess that begs the question, from an evolutionary standpoint, is it bad for a woman to be a pushover? In a sense, I suppose. If she runs around having sex with every man who wanted her to, she would likely eventually find herself a single mother, which is generally a very less than ideal situation in the context of the survival of the species. Nor would a woman who is such a pushover that she would allow it to negatively impact the availability of resources for her children or her husband, to the extent of putting them at risk, favorable to the species.

In a group setting, for example, a tribal context, pushovers can pose a threat because, though they are submissive, they tend to be unreliable, for various reasons.

You misunderstood him.

Look at the list again and you'll notice that a guy that is like this will, in most cases, be seen by the woman as :

- Buying presents and doing unrequested favors, i.e. bribing

--> Too eager to be with her. = Creepy.

- Agreeing with everything someone says

--> A brown-noser... or 'weak' because its easier to agree than to stand up for their own opinion.

- Putting someone on a pedestal and worshipping them

--> reverse chauvinism at its best. women can feel intimidated and can be fearful of someone who thinks too highly of her.

- Labeling oneself as a "nice guy", i.e. being holier-than-thou

--> This is not self-confidence. Its more of a narcissistic first impression.

- Not standing out in any way

--> this is a big one. most women will fail to notice, see or interact with someone who just melts in the crowd. In short: Passive male. This is probably instinctive since passivity is not exactly a desirable trait... a 'turn off' .

It means that nice guys when doing an egg and spoon race will let their opponents win, because that makes them feel good.