How do you ask girls out and begin relationships with them?

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Hell, you're likely onto something here. I'm just thinking out loud as usual. I remember always being so pissed off that I'd just want to be friends with a woman who rejected me and then they started acting like I had the plague, and would just use me to dump all their problems on. Basically like I was chopped liver. After years and years of this happening and also always being made fun because of my language impairment and my looks, I got to the point where I was just like "screw it." It completely killed my spirit and made me feel worthless. Thus why I'm now in the "DGAF" camp. I also find it difficult to have female friends anymore because of this as well. (I apologize if I came off like I was saying all women did this, that's not what I was trying to say, I was trying to say pretty much all women in my experience. I'd hope that not all women were this way!)

I had my share of complaints too, don't get me wrong. It's just in my case I was willing to listen to others vent about theirs too.

I know you didn't mean all women, but in my (albeit, limited) experience, a certain, specific type of women is like this. Unfortunately, it's the exact type of a woman most men go after.

Like another poster said, be comfortable with yourself (you don't have to love who you are, just like yourself enough so it you don't ooze self loathing) and just talk. Also, don't expect a relationship. I have been rejected dozens of times until now and I met my current girlfriend because I talked to her as just another person. If you go into it expecting something you will most often be disappointing. Low expectations, high hopes. Sounds like an oxymoron but it works more often then you think. Girls are people too, not just potential partners. Also like was said, see if you can find a group of friends with common interests (TCG's, Gaming, whatever) and make regular friends, more often then not you meet girls this way. Even if they are not interested in you as more then a friend if you show you are a decent guy they will probably introduce you to a friend.

Life is not fair. Why even bother trying? I am retired and live off the disabled pension.
I was sick to death of being bullied, set up and harassed by jerks in the past that made by disabilities worse.

Because trying is better then doing nothing.

I have tried and failed in the past. I was set up, taken advantage of due to my disabilities. I now claim the disabled pension and enjoying retirement. Win, win for me.

Why bother trying when you may end up failing or worse off than before?

Are you blaming everything wrong in your life on your disabilities? (which I don't see AS as, btw). What you are saying is you suck money from the government without even wanting to try to improve your own life? That's called being a leech and it is also something people who don't want to spend tax money on SSI have to use as ammo. Unless I have misread all of your posts and you are being honest in your views, you come across as fairly despicable. You seem perfectly capable of typing on a computer, learn to program or such. I can't imagine you have a very high quality of life if what you say is true. I have AS and I have never used it as an excuse. I have been set up, bullied, taken advantage of, teased, rejected.... so what? You say it's a win-win but I don't know how you can really believe that. Everyone wants a free ride, and I have seen people with much more severe handicaps than AS at least try.

i live in Australia and I am 29 and will be 30 next year. My life is almost over and I should be allowed to live out my life in peace. I have social anxiety disorder, psychosis, paranoid schizophrenia, bipolar and borderline personality disorder. Life has not been fair for me and I have given up.

I should have clarified about my original post on page 1. This is the idea behind the site that I gave a link to.

I apologize for being so harsh in my post then, I thought all you were dealing with was AS.

Truthfully, just put yourself out there and try and be as natural as you can be, especially if you have a mental health issue (I don't mean tell them all about it, but put yourself out there in a way you feel natural), it's not always going to work, but even putting on a vague persona to meet girls is just going to end in tears unless you meet an angel who understands why you did what you did to get together with her, which is kind of rare. Also, start the relationship casual (I don't mean casual sex) but do things that are neither overly personal (Romantic dinner) or to impersonal (Going to a movie, unless she brings up she would like to, then you can go for coffee and it becomes that perfect amount of each). Get to know her, for couple weeks, month, then when she has a good idea of who you really are, ask her out. She may say no, you may end up with just a good female friend, so you just try the whole process over again with another girl you meet and like down the road.

Do not go actively looking for a relationship, I know this from way to much experience. You will come across forced, tying to hard, sometimes needy or clingy and that' the quickest way to end the whole thing. Just go about your day to day life, eventually you'll meet someone, and you go ahead with it. I know, it makes NO sense to me either, seems like magic and it doesn't seem like it'll ever happen to you, but eventually you turn around and think, "Damn, it did happen that way!" It's all about being aware it's going to take time, sometimes a lot, just don't give up.

Always keep in mind that hearing no is really brutal for anyone, but people with social difficulties take it harder, but you have to take your time to get over it and just try again when you're ready. Also, it's never to late to meet the right girl/guy for anyone.

I've read a lot of your posts in other threads, just wanted to say something. No one can tell you you're wrong cause you have decided to give up, that is your choice and your choice alone, always remember that. Cause it's also your choice to recognize that life can be a mountain of misery, but you can either be under that mountain and bearing the weight of it all by yourself, or you can try and make your way to the top so you stand over the misery. It's your choice man, and everyone should respect it, just want you to know that my life hasn't been easy, most people on this forum haven't had it easy, I have Acute Anxiety Disorder, Aspergers, OCD, Severe Bipolar, symptoms of personality disorder, rage disorder, severe agoraphobia, and lots of other exciting quirks. I'm 25, with a good job, not much for friends, and haven't had a relationship in many years but honestly, I just figure my life is starting, not ending.

I hope you can maybe find it in yourself to slowly change that perception of life is over to one where you recognize you've had some bad times and some unfair set-backs but that you can still proceed with your life and find some semblance of happiness if you just put the effort into recognizing your difficulties and faults and making an effort to learn how to best deal and function with them so that when you're 50 years old you have something(s) you care about and think, "I still got a lot of years left in me". Best of luck man, I respect your decision to feel you're done, given up, it's not worth it anymore, just want you to know there are people, like myself who know you can continue and achieve some good things given time and hard work. Take care.

Many people can sense when you're not feeling so gret about yourself. Try to work on that; if you don't feel good about yourself, why should anyone else? (I'm not talking about being cocky, hich is usually a BAD idea)

Work on being interesting by pushing yourself a little at the edges of your special interests. What else is out there? What might feel interesting that you have never considered looking into doing? I sometimes spend time on Wikipedia trying to figure out what I might not know that might be a new source of delight

Meet lots of people -- in person if you can stand it, lots online if not. Attempt to treat women as people/friends, not necessarily potential dating targets... if you focus too hard on the "woman" part and not enough on the "person" part (i.e. the "friendship" part is just a sham) many women will pick this up and find it uncomfortable, as if you're a vulture hovering over them or the like.

Try to see and appreciate what the women you meet are actually like than on what you want them to be. This is a big, big deal, and by doing this you will already be ahead of many NT guys. Learning to listen (check out "active listening", for instance) is important as well.

(Incidentally, many women surround themselves with male friends because they tend to have more in common with men (this is true for me, probably due to my particular special interests as well as growing up with brothers, not sisters). It's not necessarily about the attention, although I agree that seems true in some cases.

The men with whom I have connected most quickly and easily have shared many of my interests and have clearly spent time and energy becoming interesting, intelligent, competent people who were comfortable with themselves and others. And, fyi, several have had AS, many have been depressed or bipolar, most have been ADD, and ALL of them have had anxiety disorder. So, mental "features" don't have to be dealbreakers.

I often hear NT women saying similar things, btw...

Good relevant article from David DeAngelo today:

most men HATE the idea of "rejection".

I'm not talking about "don't like the idea" or "wish it didn't happen"...I'm talking HATE here.

The idea of walking up to a woman and having her REJECT you causes most men to instantly feel sick in the pit of their stomachs and literally feel a horrible combination of nervousness and confusion.

A guy can psych himself up for an hour to go talk to a woman, but when the moment comes to actually DO IT, EVERYTHING changes.

The heart rate shoots up, breathing quickens, eyes dart back and forth, thoughts of rejection fill the mind, and eventually the pressure becomes too much to bare.

Most men find this state so scary that they end up deciding to forget about approaching the women... just to end the discomfort.

The temptation is great to just "walk away" because just as quickly as the intense nervousness is triggered by the moment one decides to ACT, it goes away when you decide to "forget about it and walk away".

The fact that "choosing to walk away" leads to the "instant gratification" of the nervous feeling going away makes it the most popular option.

Most of the time (and I'm talking about probably 99% of the time here) men just walk away. They give up before they've even started.

I find this topic fascinating.

If I just think about it, I can remember MANY times in my past where I wanted to talk to a woman, but I just didn't do it.

In fact, many of them are so vivid that I can remember the exact setting, what the girl looked like, who else was there, etc...and I'm talking about situations that happened YEARS ago.

These moments obviously made an impression.

I can also remember kicking myself for DAYS afterwards for not approaching and talking to these girls.

Can you relate?

THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ACTUAL REJECTION AND THE FEAR OF REJECTION...

I think it's important to realize that there's a BIG difference between ACTUAL rejection (having a girl who is offended, upset, rude, etc. to you when you start talking to her) and the FEAR of rejection (how you feel when you imagine a woman rejecting you).

I've found that for me PERSONALLY, my FEAR of rejection is actually FAR, FAR more painful and difficult to deal with than ACTUAL rejection in the real world.

The main reason for this is that most of the time when a man starts talking to a woman, she is actually rather nice about the whole affair.

Men aren't "rejected" very often!

If a woman isn't interested, she usually just says "I have a boyfriend" or "No thank you"...or she'll just walk away without saying anything at all.

Out of the hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of times that I've approached women, I can't remember any time that a woman has yelled "Get away from me you loser! You are unattractive and the very thought of going on a date with you makes me sick to my stomach!"

I'm sure it's happened to SOMEONE, but it's never happened to ME.

The worst I've had is a woman making fun of the words I used (telling me that my pickup line was lame) or just walking away.

No slaps, no boyfriends beating me up, and no yelling.

But here's the kicker...

You can experience an intense FEAR of rejection EVERY time you consider approaching a woman.

Imagine, something you can predict with almost perfect accuracy.

You can be in any situation, anywhere, anytime, and still have FEAR of rejection...which will prevent you from approaching a woman.

Ah, the power of the human mind.

HOW TO DEAL WITH REJECTION...

A lot of guys ask me, "How do I deal with rejection?".

The answer: Don't worry about it.

If you get "rejected", you'll be fine.

Really.

It's no big deal, and it doesn't happen that often.

And when it does, you'll recover shortly thereafter.

You'll find yourself telling your friends about it, and laughing together. Rejection from a woman is about as painful as getting a "D" on a test.

It's basically insignificant.

The REAL question is "How do I deal with my FEAR of rejection?".

If you can overcome your imaginary FEAR of rejection, you'll be on your way. (Some guys have a type of fear that they might call "terror" when thinking of approaching women.) If you have this level of fear, then you might want to take a minute and check this out before reading on:

http://www.DoubleYourDates.com/OnBeingAMan/

WHY WOMEN REJECT MEN...

Now let's talk about those rare instances where a woman actually REJECTS a man.

For the sake of this discussion, I want to define "rejection" as a woman doing something that lets you know that she's upset and offended that you started talking to her, and she responds in a mean or vicious way to make you go away.

I do NOT consider a woman walking away without stopping to talk to you, her saying "No thank you", or any other time when a woman just simply doesn't engage to be "rejection".

If you DO consider these things to be rejection, please stop reading now, call your mom into your room, and tell her that it's time you grew up and moved out...and that she'll get over the fact that she can't choose your clothes for you and hug you when you have a boo-boo anymore.

I digress...

I've found that there are a few main reasons why women actually DO reject men (by the way, it's VERY rare that I actually get "rejected" anymore...it's probably happened to me once in the last 100 times I've started a conversation with a woman...because I don't do dumb-ass things anymore).

Here are the main ones:

1. The guy isn't paying attention, and he does something stupid to begin with.

Some guys think it's appropriate to walk up to a woman, put their arm around her, and say, "Hey baby, you sure do look hot tonight".

Some guys don't see anything wrong with following a woman around all night, staring at her constantly, then walking over with a nervous, sweaty-palmed, stalkerish look and saying, "You remind me of my sister".

These are bad ideas.

2. The guy doesn't stop when he should.

If two women are sitting alone at a table in the corner, and one of them is obviously upset, and you walk over to them and say, "Hi, can I buy you a drink?"...and the upset one looks at you and says, "No thanks, we're in the middle of a conversation" (then looks away from you back at her friend)...and you say, "Aw, come on, have a drink. You need to lighten up and have some fun"...and she looks back at you and says firmly, "We're busy"...and you say, "What, are you in a bad mood or something? I'm just trying to buy you a drink"...and she says, "We don't want a drink"...and you say, "Well maybe your friend does"...and the friend says, "No, I don't want one either"...

OK, hopefully you get it.

If you ever do something like this, you are a dumb ass, and you deserve to be slapped and have 47 drinks thrown in your lap.

3. Making a woman nervous with your body language.

If you start talking to a woman, but your posture is weak and slumped, your eyes are darting around but not meeting hers, and you're wearing an unbuttoned flannel shirt with one of the tails tucked in, you're probably not going to get a favorable response.

If you creep a woman out, things aren't going to work for you.

4. Not understanding a woman's body language and other communication.

When you start talking to a woman, she will let you know within a very short time if she's receptive to talking to you.

If you've been reading too many books that say "A woman will signal her availability and interest by flipping her hair, licking her lips, and cocking her head coyly at you", then get over it.

This stuff happens to Brat Pitt, not to YOU.

And if it DOES happen to you, then skip this part.

When you first start talking to a woman she's either going to keep talking to you in an open, comfortable way or she's not.

She's either going to act like things are cool or she's going to act like they're not.

This is an amazing thought, but women get nervous too. They will often stop talking just because they can't think of anything to say, etc.

But you need to pay attention.

Experience is the best teacher here.

My simple point is that MOST GUYS CAUSE REJECTION by what they're doing. They aren't paying attention, or they're doing things that are offensive.

If you just avoid a few major mistakes, learn how to start conversations with women, and do a few simple things RIGHT, you'll all but totally avoid "rejection" from the women you approach.

HOW TO OVERCOME FEAR OF REJECTION

The REAL obstacle here is the FEAR.

As I mentioned, FEAR of rejection, or IMAGINING rejection when you should be imagining success, leads to walking away.

You miss 100% of the shots you don't take.

Ironically, I've found that the best way to overcome my own fear of rejection was to see that it wasn't going to actually happen.

The more times I approached women and started conversations and the more I saw that women usually responded positively, the less I imagined things going wrong.

This led to a positive feedback loop of me wanting to approach more women and have more success.

Here are a few ideas for overcoming your own FEAR of rejection:

1) Go out to a bar, and watch men approaching women.

Take a Saturday night, and just go out alone. Find a seat at the bar where things are busy, and just watch.

Make sure you visit a place that is REALLY busy, so you can see a lot of people interacting.

Now, pay attention.

You'll begin to pick out the guys who are approaching a lot of women, asking them to dance, buying them drinks, etc. Watch what happens.

You'll be able to see for yourself that most of the time, even if the woman isn't interested, nothing bad happens.

You'll also see that when a guy tries to grab a woman who's walking by, makes a crude sexual comment, or just keeps talking when a woman isn't interested, that the woman's feelings might escalate and she'll respond negatively.

You can watch what works and what doesn't right in front of your own eyes.

This will start to reprogram your mind that women don't usually "reject" men, even in the most intense situations where they're being approached all night.

2) Start small.

If you have to, start by talking to women who are PAID to talk to you.

Go to a mall (one of my favorites).

Stores in malls hire attractive young women.

Walk into every store, and start conversations.

Practice making eye contact.

Come up with a few jokes that you can use in any situation ("So, do you own this store? Perfect, then you won't care if I just take some things...")

Ask the salesgirls to smell your new cologne (the one you sprayed on your wrist next door) and give you her opinion.

The more you do this, the more you'll get used to starting conversations with women you don't know, and having comfortable conversations.

3) Choose one default thing for each situation.

It amazes me that guys don't think ahead.

They don't plan what they're going to do.

As the old saying goes "By failing to plan, you plan to fail".

You really need to figure out a DEFAULT thing you can do to start a conversation with any woman, anywhere, anytime.

Once you come up with your idea, mentally rehearse it until you could do it in any situation.

Then get out and do it.

HOW TO AVOID REJECTION AND INCREASE SUCCESS

Human beings tend to want to "save face" when it comes to relationships.

We don't like the idea that another person has outright "rejected" us, and we ALSO tend to not want to "hurt other people's feelings" by rejecting them.

This is one of the reasons why women will often lie and say "I have a boyfriend" when they don't.

You must become aware of these "subconscious" processes and motivations, work with them, and eventually become the master of them.

Learn to recognize when a woman is "politely saying no thanks", and move on.

If a woman isn't interested in you, forget about it. It doesn't matter.

Go to the next one. There are plenty.