What I hate the most.

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I think the one thing I failed the worst as expressing, is this.

I'm not against the idea of having Female Friends.

I have Female Friends, with whom I enjoy spending time, in a strictly platonic atmosphere, I neither obsess over them, or treat them differently than my male friends.


But what this thread was supposed to convey, is that I'm tired of winding up friends with Females, when I'm trying to be more than friends with them.

The only advice I've been given in this thread, is basically one impossibility after another, it all revolves around me changing how I act around women. If I change how I act around women however, then I'm false and I'm roping them in. Either way I'm still not doing it right. It still won't help me. I'll still wind up feeling miserable and getting more bitter and angry about the whole thing which makes it more likely I'll have the same problems again in the future.

It's reductive and unhelpful to tell me I should change my approach when I cannot make myself change my approach since the way I do things is done specifically to maintain my comfort level enough so that I can even talk to them in the first place.

The more frustrated I get, the more I come off like I have some sort of problem. But I really don't. I'm not needy, clingy, desperate, or obsessive. I might get to excited occasionally. My only problem is bad timing.

I suppose thats true. But really I'm just coming out of a whole period of not dating. Like.. from 13 to 26.. I only went out with 1 girl. I've tried on and off in that time to attract them, but, it never seems to work. All of my female friends I have now came from my last attempt.. Every time it comes with a lowering of standards and less rigorous adherence to the standards I have.. I don't want to wind up getting so desperate i make a mistake I regret but I came really close to it once already last year.

This guy radiates woman hater from a mile away.

I have little to no respect for guys who pretend to be interested in you as a person and then cast you off when you don't give them what they want romantically.

Unless you approach these women, ON A ROMANTIC DATE right off the bat, you are faking being friends with them.

You don't know me. You don't have any idea what you are talking about. You are tarring me with a terrible brush when all I came here for was to vent my frustration at having yet another women I was interested in decide she wasn't interested in me. Fine, Fair enough, but don't expect me to continue to maintain interest in her when I never wanted to simply be her friend in the first place. Continuing on under a charade of friendship as a consolation prize is misrepresenting myself to her.

I WILL NOT simply approach some random woman and offer to take her out on a date without knowing anything about her. If there is no reasonable chance of us having anything in common, I'm not going to bother. I'm not going to suffer through a night of inane commentary about coach handbags or something equally ridiculous on the off chance that she might actually like me. I don't understand why that is a problem, I'd expect her to do the same with me. If she doesn't like the fact I don't drive, then I want her to say so up front. Get the shallow stuff out of the way so both of us can go about our lives.

I'm being extremely patient here. I'm not the one jumping to conclusions. I've spelled out my views repeatedly, consistently and contritely using the best language I can muster to avoid as much confusion as possible. Yet apart from two people everyone else in this entire thread has jumped on the bandwagon to blame me first.

Yes I was given advice, it effectively boiled down to "Be some one other than yourself" which to me is doing the very thing I'm being accused of. Being disingenuous.

Simply put, None of you know the first thing about me yet plenty of you seem more than happy to cast aspersions on me. Seemingly perfectly willing to condemn me when you don't know all the details.

I want to know too, if I'm such a woman hater, why do I have so many female friends?! I have no fewer than 9 on my phone's address book. All but two of them were failed attempts at starting something more, All but two of them turned me down but still stay in touch with me as "Friends". They all know where to come to when they need to talk about their man, or lack of. They all know who to call when they need something fixed, need help on a paper, need help setting up a new TV or have a virus on their computer. Yet I'm the one who's taking advantage of them? I'm trying my best to be their friends since thats what they want. Friends help each other. I don't ask them for money, I don't ask them for favors, I don't even ask them for advice on women. But I simply don't need any more of them. What I need is a romantic partner who shares at least 50% of my interests or I hers, is interested in forming a stable relationship thus allowing both of us to have an outlet for a basic biological human need of companionship.

It's impossible to be interested in someone in a romantic way without being friends first. It would seem a lot of people in this thread are getting legitimate attraction confused with lust and generally shallow ideals. The most awkward and strange thing anybody could ever do is just walk up to some random stranger and ask for a date.

Well, I'd think about whether you can truly be friends. I think of relationships as a SUBSET of friendships. If you would not be interested in a woman as just friends, then don't bother trying to get in a relationship with them. In all likelihood if you are "friend-zoned" and lose interest in the woman as a person, you have only felt lust, not love.

In the correct situation for me (when I know she's single and she knows I'm single), it would be:

Relationship with her > Friendship with her > No contact with her.

Unfortunately, too often with people (probably more often for men than for women) it ends up being:

Relationship > Friendship = No contact

or even

Relationship > No contact > Friendship

thanks to lust.

Comp_Geek_573, hallelujah. i believe a romantic relationship should be a friendship with an extra aspect. so if a friendship doesn't survive rejection then it wasn't truly a friendship to begin with. if someone is just suffering my company in the hopes of something developing, then it is not a real friendship and i dunno why they'd even want a romantic relationship at all.

I hate the Liar's..

^^I can see from that point of view, but from my own experiences with a few different people, the rejection itself has been so hurtful that I feel I wouldn't be able to sustain any kind of friendship. It's not so much suffering friendship than it is that it's sometimes hard to face someone who doesn't feel the same way that you do for them, and they know it. Perhaps it's not a very decent analogy, but I feel it's similar to how an adult might treat a child, or someone who's generally smarter than another. That doesn't necessarily have to be true, but I've felt that I've been belittled, and even if it's not intentional, it would only go to make the friendship worse and there's little that can be done about it.

I guess that's probably not true for rabbits, here. Just playing devil's advocate. There are too many different reasons for similar courses of action to shoehorn anyone into one specific group of people.

Well I will try to help you out with the "issue" you've dispelled as best I can from my perspective, although I can't promise you that my perspective is normal or resulting help your "odds' the most. However, I am a female and there are certain approaches that tend to frustrate, annoy, and repel me from guys.

Firstly, despite my childhood autism, I am now quite an intuitive and knowledgeable person. I am extremely annoyed/repelled by men who treat me like I have the mind of a child or belittle or dismiss my concerns as those of a mere child. In tune with this, I do not like men, who as you have projected, do not have equal respect for the intelligence and needs of women and who cannot form regular friendships with them. From my experience, men like that seem to be even worse about respecting the wishes/ideas of an autistic woman. I don't know why, it's just been my experience. Nevertheless, I have historically had few friends with men who are not wholly gay.

Further, I am extremely turned off and disturbed by men who I get some creepy sensation that they are sexually attracted to me or have the potential to be (fear based or not) through that intuition I spoke of earlier, but who only seem to care about me for that reason. That seems to be the kind of person you are and for that very reason I would not give you a chance or if you threaten me then perhaps sabotage to no end. My experience indicates lust is not a good relationship motivator or sustainer. It lasts awhile but then it fizzles. And it seems you are not only ok with this but perhaps this is what you want.....further you state you are the kind of man to only pretend you want a friendship with a woman but for other motives (relationship....which we can only imagine what entails). The thing is, a lot of women will get the feeling what you are about (autistic or not) and they will be disturbed when you further show weakness of character or even worse dangerous character by not handling it in a forthright, upfront manner that respects their wishes as well... by beating around the bush or using manipulative tactics to try to gain their friendship for what they later discover are ulterior purposes. Basically, you cannot blame this as a character flaw of THEIRS. It might take them a little while to figure out what you're about (which you've clearly indicated in this chat), but when they do they and state they do not relationship and perhaps even the friendship no longer as well (if, as you've stated here, you have no desires for anything else) , you cannot and should not be surprised.

I'm sorry this is confusing for you but I do believe that being straightforward and honest in your desires is your best bet with any friendship or more (especially more). And I don't understand how you can say @ "well I can't be dishonest to her and be friends with her when she wants nothing more than a friendship" but also "i'm only pretending to be friends with her because I want a relationship..." So it sounds like you CAN be dishonest but only in ways you think may benefit yourself at the expense of potential relationships (ie feigning friendship in hopes of something more and then rejecting friendship when she won't give you more)? Perhaps these women are just seeing through your double speak??