In love with someone who may be an Aspie

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Hi,

Thankfully I'm no longer having to type (or read) on my tiny mobile phone.

Some other random thoughts I had on your original post (sorry for the excessive length):

It's great that you've found someone with lots of shared interests (video games, animation and science fiction) and that you have a connection with.

It sounds as though the person may have asperger's syndrome though I can't say for sure (I'm probably older than him and have never had a girlfriend and only occassionaly have I had a friend - though I have quite a close knit family). If he does have asperger's he may or may not know this. Speaking for myself I always assumed my lack of social skills was down to a small speach impediment (saying 'r''s is tricky for me) and only became aware of apergers back in October (though I recall hearing the word back when I was in primary school) - and I'm a reasonably intelligent chap.

I think you did really well asking him out (if he's an aspie) - its probably the only way I'd ever end up on date too! Aspie's tend to tell the truth and thereafter also strive to avoid hurting people emotionally where possible (or at least I do). I have really strong feelings for a similar girl as you describe - equally unobtainable (and should she ever be, the love would quickly dissappear!). Bare in mind my idea of relationships stem from A) TV/The Media, B) Early Church teachings, C) Very, very, very limited exposure to real life! As an aspie hell-bend on always doing the right thing/being truthful, spending time with someone who isn't the main focus of my attention (regardless of how unsuited they actually are) actually "feels" wrong (perhaps because I feel that I'm not being fair to the person who is prepaired to go out with me).

I'm half way through (re)reading your first post, and really need to say that though the person you are interested in sounds like a really great person, so too do you. First for asking him out, and for sticking things out even though he's not as responsive as perhaps other guys would be. (I should also add a quick note to say that the above compliment is only something I'd ever be able to do in text - I wouldn't have the ability or wit to say it aloud).



I have a few thoughts about this paragraph. As an aspie I tend to tell the truth and find it hard to do otherwise which would suggest "explaining that he did not feel the same way" was true. However if he's anything like me (which he may or may not be) then this could easily have changed since or he may not really know how he feels about things (I often don't, or my feelings or rather view changes from one day to the next).

The fact that he wanted to kiss you sounds good (again aspies - if he is one - tend to tell the truth or at least I do). Regarding the "cold and distant, a stranger" - unfortunately this is something I can relate to - I can appear as such.

Whenever I feel that I've been wronged (usually due to taking something innocent the wrong way without people realising) I decide to "punish" people by isolating myself from them. I know this is childish, but I can't help it. I would point out though that I'm most like this to people I really, really care about. I can be acting fine to everyone around me, including compelete strangers or people that aren't particularly nice (whom I don't really care about) yet be acting obnoxiously to those who mean the most to me (as they've hurt me, and as their opinion and friendship means the most to me). Note though that this is only me I'm speaking off - the person you love could be completely different. Nonetheless I tend to be really mean only to those I really care about!



The traits that you mentioned does sound like aspergers. Its important to note that people have varying degrees of apergers traits. In my opinion I don't think its possible for you to really predict, regardless of how well you know him, how he would respond if you brought up the subject if he's not aware of it. My own experience is mixed. First - I was happy as it gave me an excuse for the way I am, and the realisation that there are others like me. Next I realised that things "special"/"unique" about me weren't really something special to me at all - but items experienced by others (which can play about with your opinion of who you are, though I was fine with it). E.g. my desire to always tell the truth, and odd things like not being heard when I speak and looking at least 10 years younger than I am (I've came across some aspies like this).

However lately I've been struggling with the removal of a certain hope - that I was simply struggling to get over the smallest of speech impediments which I'd eventually achieve, and become like everyone else. Learning that many aspies don't ever date or marry (I would prefer that I did) was a blow. It has prompted me to shake things up a little and look into online dating etc - so eventually its going to be worth it (I hope!). Either way, you need to tread carefully here.



Its good that he values you, and good that he's tried to explain that he has difficulty showing affection (he must be really comfortable around you and trusting of you - even then personally I think its a really brave thing to say or it least it would be for me). This more than anything else would suggest to me that he really likes you - but you just need to try to confirm his exact meaning of "values" (i.e. that its not just "values you as a friend" alone, which I don't think it is but can't say for sure).

This may or may not be useful - but I tend to have the equivalent of mood swings (again, this could just be me). Sometimes my logical (robtic/unemotional side) is dominant (when doing things alone/or whenever I'm at work), at other times I'm more emotionally engaged (playing with newphews / surrounded by family), while at other times I'm inbetween. My view on the world (and the degree to which I can "feel" things) can change depending on my mode.



Regarding "fear change" comment - personally I think that's true. For me I would also go a bit further and add that I don't even realise that I fear change. I'm currently turning down quite a few interviews for substantially higher paying roles. I suspect a large part of it is to avoid the unheaval and change involved! Ooops.



I've never really been that close to someone - hence others will be better able to advise on this.

Speaking personally though I tend to feel under pressure from social experiences especially when its new and when I don't know how I'm meant to behave (i.e. its not something we can watch others do in public to find out how we are meant to respond. I find it important to "fit in" and not come across as being stupid/vulnerable - probably even more so with someone I care about (especially if it ever got to the more advanced part of a relationship).



On a final note its important to re-iterate that stuff mentioned here may or may not be relevant to the person you love.

My own gut feeling is that I would hate him to lose someone as good as you purely down to not being able to express himself well enough due to his aspie characteristics, hence would encourage you to stick with it until you know for sure. Note too that if someone decided to leave me I would let them go and not chase them - but not for the reasons you may think. As an aspie I could be completely in love and heartbroken - yet (I personally) would not make any move. My understanding would be that the person has left and doesn't want to see me/talk to me (that if they change their mind they would choose to get back in touch). Were I to go after them, then they would feel threatended / intimidated / salked etc - and that's wrong / I don't have the right to do that.

Note too that it might just be down to getting ever closer to the full "physical" side of the relationship. Note strongly that I'm not in any position to comment on this topic, though speaking personally the build up to getting into that side of things would worry me a lot (e.g. should I be making the first move, what should I do, how do I know what she's thinking, does she just want to kiss/cuddle or want more, do I act differently in normal situations if we're getting closer, etc, etc, etc - lots of things unknown that would cause me, personally, worry). Also - if anything embarrassing happened or if things didn't go according to plan I would need to be really reassured that everything was the same as normal and going fine (again though, I'm not the best person to be advising on this area!)

I suspect that any difficulties are just down to communication issues - I hope everything goes well.

Hey Paul and LOTG,

Just wanted to thank you for writing and for being so thoughtful and incisive. I'm so glad I posted here. I'm really busy at work but wanted to let you know I read your responses very carefully and will write back something worthy later.

Thank you so much LOTG for writing -- everything you said is really interesting and helpful.

Well I certainly take a lot of advice from him when it comes to the things he's expert in, so I suppose it's not so different. I don't know; sometimes I just feel weird about the fact that I can call him at like three in the morning and say "Lets go out for waffles!" and he'll almost always agree. I don't want to take advantage of the fact that he has difficulty saying no. I read somewhere that Aspies tend to feel completely out of control a lot of the time, and that that's why they like to stick to routines and avoid change, so I'm wary of making him feel unmoored.



I see this in him a lot. There were a few times when I was crying in front of him, and he literally looked, like, heartbroken. Just completely unable to handle it. It's traditionally said that people with Asperger's have trouble with empathy. But if this guy has the syndrome, then I've found quite the opposite to be true. Although I do notice that whenever I'm going through a tough time, he specifically calls out or compares it to experiences he's had, almost as if he were trying to imagine my mindset by comparing to his own in a similar situation. As if he has to link it to his own experience to understand it.




I know I shouldn't try and change my personality for him. But I think what you said above is good advice for dealing with anyone. It's interesting the words you chose: "safe" and "appreciated." I wonder, do you feel unsafe around people a lot of the time? Is that something you could tell me more about?

Paul, I can't tell you how enlightening your post was. This guy displays so many of the same things you brought up, it's uncanny.

This is a hard situation to navigate even for an NT, and certainly NTs are guilty of the same kind of passive aggression (behaving sulkily and letting everyone guess why -- I've done it myself more times than I'd care to admit). I think most people, NT or AS, try to avoid confrontation and dislike hostility -- I certainly do. I'm trying to learn to be brave and tell people the truth when they've upset me. Fortunately, most work situations have some kind of procedure in place to help mediate disagreements between employees because they don't want to see confrontation or hostility either. Maybe you could talk to a supervisor about your concerns, if there's someone you trust to handle it carefully (someone who will go scream at your teammates is not what you want; it will only make them angry at you). If you want to handle it yourself, I would wait until you're not mad any longer (again, good advice for anyone), and approach one of them to discuss how you feel. I would try to be honest about your feelings and not accusatory, and try to keep the conversation positive ("I could really help with something like this.") and not negative ("You guys can't handle this on your own and need my help."). Of course, I'm saying all this without knowing the particulars of the situation, so take it with a grain of salt.



God you sound just like him! I know that every time I talk to him about us potentially having a relationship, he's torn between telling me that he doesn't like me (being honest) and lying to spare my feelings, which is why it's so cruel of me to keep asking. He also seems to feel wrong about the idea of us just dating more casually. Since we get along well and are attracted to one another, I suggested that we just enjoy that for a while. But for him, as you say, the relationship has to be sort of epic or he's not interested. He does seem to have based a lot of his ideas about love on books and movies and games. At the same time, I can't blame him for wanting to hold out for something more. And I appreciate that he doesn't want to hurt me by just casually fooling around when he's not that interested.

You mentioned that you would lose interest if this girl returned your affection. Can you explain why? He's absolutely the same way -- he keeps saying that if I ever do stop liking him he will fall absolutely in love with me. Why is this?

Argh have to go back to work I will finish this later.

I've personally never been able to understand this statement. I feel that I have "empathy", but to me it feels like a problem with both "reading" someone's emotions, and utilizing the appropriate response to a stimuli.



So do I. I'm not sure why, but I felt like saying that he isn't alone.



I need friends like that.



Honestly, I tend to feel unsafe around people in general. I'm comparatively blind to how they might feel about me, I have no idea if their friendliness is all just a facade, and I can't connect to my peers on any level. Even the smartest Seniors here with the highest grades just shrug their shoulders at any of my interests and say "that's nice". That's why my girlfriend was so comforting, because she listened to me. I knew that she was listening because she asked questions and attempted to keep the conversation going on whatever special interest I was spilling my guts about.

Hey Paul, so sorry I'm just getting back to you. Work has been insane.

This is so, so nice of you to say. As you can imagine, a few months of dealing with this has taken a toll on my self-esteem. Even knowing he may have Asperger's, it is extremely confusing and painful when someone vacillates so wildly between affectionate and distant, and my NT mind can't help but decide that it's something I've done, that he doesn't like me, that he only hangs around me out of a sense of obligation or pity, that he considers me a pest and wishes I'd leave him alone. So I really appreciate you saying such nice things, and I also really appreciate you taking the time to respond to my post so thoughtfully and with such care.

Can I ask, why do you find it so much harder to say things like this when you're talking to someone in person?



This is exactly the heart of the problem. He says over and over again that he doesn't know what he wants. But it's so hard to get him to articulate what he means by that. And yes, part of me feels like, if Aspies are invariably honest, then I should take him at his word that he's not interested. But I've also read, and you also mentioned in your post, that sometimes Aspies will do things to avoid change and can't completely be honest with themselves about why they're doing it. Like they find reasons not to take the job interview, etc., as you mentioned. I don't know. I can't tell if I'm still clinging to false hope.



This is one of the hardest things to deal with, for me. I was wondering if you could try and explain what it is that would make you behave with total warmth towards someone one day, and then become totally remote the next?



I do exactly the same thing, and I'm NT...at least I think I am!



Yeah, and I can see how being diagnosed with something like this could maybe lower your own expectations of yourself. Like, well, I have AS, so I should just give up on ever doing X or becoming Y. At the same time, I imagine that if he met with a professional trained in handling this sort of thing, he could learn coping skills for dealing with an NT world. I also think he may have some co-morbid depression and anxiety issues that he should be being treated for. I want to stress that I don't have any desire for him (or any other Aspie) to be "cured," unless that's something they want. I like him the way he is! As far as I understand it, there is no cure anyway...although I have heard eliminating wheat and dairy can ease the symptoms some.

What you said about most Aspies never marrying? I mean, you have to think of yourself as Paul, not as an Aspie. Asperger's does not define you. And if you want to have a relationship, I'm sure you can make that happen. I wonder if there are AS support groups you could get involved in? You might meet some women in the same boat as you are. That's not to say you shouldn't pursue NT girls too, if you'd like, although I don't know...I'm starting to wonder whether a relationship between someone AS and NT can ever actually work. She would have to be pretty strong and confident and secure in herself. Otherwise she'll end up like me: in constant need of reassurance that you care about her. (I know I have some issues of my own I need to address!)



Yeah, I do think it was hard for him to say that (he said it via text too...maybe he has trouble saying that stuff out loud the way you do). He says he feels more comfortable around me than he ever has around anyone else. But unfortunately, that doesn't necessarily translate to romantic feelings. But then why does he take his face in his hands, and tell me how beautiful my eyes are, and say that he wants to kiss me? He'll come so close, and then say: "I can't." And I don't know if it's "I can't" because he doesn't love me and it would be wrong, or if it's "I can't" because he is afraid, or because it would be too much. Can you tell me -- would the physical intimacy of kissing someone just be overwhelming for you?



This is interesting and made me wonder if the times he seems unfriendly are because he's in a certain mindset (as he is at work). He definitely seems very slow to transition between work mode and social mode. It's almost like he has to warm up. It usually seems to take him like half an hour to become comfortable.




God this must be so hard. I can only imagine the effort it must take to try and conceal this from people. Social cues are so subtle, so easy to miss: the slightest inflection in tone of voice, the subtlest gesture, can carry so much meaning. It must be so hard to navigate. And especially with romantic relationships, it's such a fragile, difficult thing, even for NTs, because so much of it is based on nonverbal signals. Girls especially are taught never to show interest, and certainly never to express it verbally. We're supposed to act coy, hard to get. How hard it must be to read if someone is flirting with you, when flirting is composed of little cues like an extra second of eye contact, a slight giggle, a hand on your arm. I don't know how you manage it.




Thank you again for saying something so nice. I mean it. I've been feeling like the most unlovable person on earth lately.

Gah, and this is exactly what I'd intended to do: sort of give him space and wait for him to call me. Because if he really liked he would call, right? Except that what you said is exactly what I'm afraid of: he will just assume I don't like him anymore, and don't want to hear from him. Or worse, he'll decide that it would be wrong of him to contact me when he's caused me pain. Even if he can't or doesn't love me that way, I don't want to stop being his friend, because he's never had a real friend before, and I really do care about him. But at the same time there was this one week where I kept asking him to do stuff and I got the distinct impression that he was avoiding me or sick of me and wanted me to leave him alone, and I don't want to pester him. He's too nice to ever tell me I were bothering him.




Again, very interesting and helpful. I know that some Aspies are extremely sensitive to touch. I have kind of put my hands all over him without thinking about it, never really considering that he may find that incredibly overwhelming or even invasive. Yes, he definitely seems not to know how to handle it when we're doing anything physical. He is only able to touch my arms and legs and hands and hair. Which he does with some gusto. Once I asked him why he never does anything else when I'm clearly willing, and he said, "It's like there's a wall." Which seems closer to the truth than all he's said about not having feelings for me. I guess I need to do what you suggest -- ignore all the traditional rules of dating which tell you to be coy and mysterious. I just need to be as frank and open as possible.

Thank you thank you thank you so much. I cannot tell you how much better you've made me feel. You've given me a lot to consider. I know, KNOW, that you will find someone wonderful who will fall madly in love with you. I would just recommend taking your own advice: be honest! There are plenty of women out there who don't like playing games; we're just told we're supposed to.

God damn it. I just don't understand. I called him at 8:30 tonight to ask if he wanted to hang out. He said: "Potentially. We'll see." I called him an hour later and he didn't answer. I left a message, texted him again. Half an hour later he texts: "I can't hang out tonight. I'm supposed to talk to someone." At ten o clock at night? WTF? Is it another girl? I mean...I know he's been hanging out on OK Cupid. f**k. Or is he just making it up because he doesn't want to see me? I do not understand him. He keeps hurting me over and over.

Hi Daisychains11,

Sorry for the delay in responding.

The person wouldn't ever return my affection (no interest in me whatsoever). She is really attractive and has some qualities I like, but for all that I'm pretty sure that I only started liking her (in this particular way) when I realised there was no danger of her expressing an interest and no danger of me ever being willing to ask her out. I.e. pure fantasy - I can imagine getting on well with her and that she's the "only one". That's nice and safe, and prevents me from dealing with the reality of being absolutely clueless about these things and having to work really really hard to actually get a real girlfriend, with all the stresses and issues it brings.

Nonetheless I encountered a girl last year for a month or two whom I found really engaging to talk to - loved going into work and stopped looking forward to the weekends. But like most guys in general, I don't really understand my feelings that well (girls seem to be better at this, and can more easily talk to other girl friends about such stuff).



I would echo LunaticOnTheGrass comments about tending to feel slightly unsafe around people in general. E.g. When friends leave me (toilet break or whatever) standing among a group of strangers I pretty much remain silent and not part of things. First, I don't open up as much as I should. Second, I don't have as much in common with peers and others in general. I read the article on http://www.wrongplanet.net/article427.html and it seems really good - going to give much of this a try (life's too short not to take chances/risks).



You need to make sure that you're looking after yourself in all of this. Even if unintentionally done, you need to make sure you're confidence and self-esteem isn't being eroded.



I don't really know sorry.

For me personally I think very much like the way I write - yet I'm litterally not able to say most of this stuff aloud. Combo of Aspergers and a slight speech impediment perhaps. Perhaps there's also an element of responding to others - e.g. in my head my voice is strong and fluent - but its essentially a monologue. When participating in conversation though, other people say things, and I need to process what they say, what they mean, and respond. For me personally I think it just boils down to my brain being more geared towards the logical stuff rather than the social stuff.

I think (rightly or wrongly) that I'm intellegent and perceptive when I'm observing things and not actively participating in them. When I need to talk to others though I become a much dumber version of myself.

I tend to think of intelligence as a big happy smile or curve - the left 50% of which is made up of social intelligence, while the right 50% of which is logical intelligence. Then I imagine that as an aspie my smile is lopsided - perhaps just 10% social, and 90% logical. I employ my logical side of the brain to make up for the small social side - perhaps converting 80% of it into a 15% boast in my social side (as either side doesn't do the other well). This allows me to get by as an "average" person with basic social skills (in the workplace) - but at the same time means my intelligence doesn't always appear as I'm using that side for something else (hence I come across dumber than I am). I'm probably speaking nonsense though - that's just the mental model I've devised!

What I do know is that my brain needs to work harder to get by, employing tricks to do what NTs probably do automatically, leaving much less of my brain power to be engaged in a nomral way (never mind the lack of experience I have in all things social). Normal conversation is therefore difficult - romantic/love type conversations where one slip up can be catastrophic is therefore very risky (for me at least, given my lack of knowledge/social know how, and given that only a small part of my brain is free to check whether what I'm thinking about saying is wise or not).

I guess therefore it comes down to a combination of not really knowing how to and fear (perhaps of being laughed at, perhaps of losing someone by saying the wrong thing)



Yes. It can happen when I opt to really open myself up to someone. It takes a great deal for me to be more open (like an open wound) and I feel vulnerable - therefore any small silly item (or big item) hurts me more and makes me want to clam up. E.g. I tried being open, and you threw it back in my face, hence I'll close off again and be mean to you as punishement. I appreciate that this is childish - but I lack the skills to see trivial things as being such unfortunately.



It can - and there's quite a few books on Amazon that you can get on the subject (including one where an AS and NT partner write alternate chapters to share there thoughts - which might be of use. If I remember what its called I'll let you know).



This wouldn't bother me - but it would for some aspies I believe (whether its nerves or if they are sensitive to touch).



For someone who can read the signs when watching others, I'm really bad at identifying when people are flirting with me. This makes me a little on edge therefore around everyone (girls of flirting age, or who are gay and may not know that I'm not) as I can never be really 100% sure that a person isn't flirting - and hence whether I'm inadvertently sending out things that could be seen as confirmation signals or whatever. I'm much more relaxed around people who are engaged or married.

Some girls also like to be flirty by nature and to keep in practice, which is fine and fun - but makes things more difficult for me personally.



Other aspies may be different, but I fear making many phone calls (though I do though have a small speech impediment which plays a large part in this for me) depending on the nature or if its strangers. I can though do a good job at it - but need to work myself up first.



Thanks! Fingers crossed (and with some active work on my part)!

I'm really sorry that I can't be of more use to you here.

It could be as you say, or it could mean that he's still annoyed at you for something (if he's dropping obvious hints about okcupid etc perhaps he thinks you've being showing an interest in someone else, and it is doing the same in return as punishment (!) - but that's a pure guess).

I suspect its a really bad sign when you reply twice to your own post...

I thought it would be worth starting a seperate thread to see what can get through our thick (aspie) skulls (i.e. what a normal person can do to coach out of us what's bothering us). Its been running for a few days - if anything of direct interest to this particular topic emerges I'll re-post it here.

For me though I tend to be the only one who can alter my thoughts - gradually I realise that I've been an idiot (though it always helps if the person remains open and friendly, and can still take a long while - i.e. no additional barriers to contend with). I do think time passes slightly differently for me than for normal people - by the time I've adapted emotionally to things, things have usually moved on. Probably to do storing/organising memories a little differently from others perhaps.

You are an amazing person - you wouldn't have posted on here unless you really cared about the person and tried you very best to understand him. If he isn't the right person for you, I'm sure you'll find the person who is.

Edit!: I've actually just realised that someone did get through to me ( once I thought things through a little more - http://www.wrongplanet.net/postp4512679.html#4512679 ). A lassie (aka girl/woman) who I fell out with moved dept - I didn't see her as much. That meant I wasn't constantly reminded of what I fell out with her about. She was also very professional and nice to me (she's always liked me). Ahh! A big part of me growing to like her again was as I was working with her alone (or at least away from the entire group I fell out with!). Hence I can be a bit more open with people on a one to one basis, and she did try being polite etc (and I can tell that she likes me). Ever so slowly, I've moved away from "never speaking to them again" (which I still do with the rest of the group) to not minding speaking to to her on most days (and I can see a time when I'll really like speaking to her, though I'm taking things slow and carefully). Bare in mind I've never been in a close relationship.

Somehow or other I mentioned something with just enough edge that she picked up on it, and re-assured me that when the girls went it out it was just for a "girls night out" - i.e. rather than purposefully excluding me. Hence a bit of time apart, in a slightly new setting (away from the problem area), still with others nearby, and still in a safe enough environment, away from the cause of the conflict (her+the other girls), and speaking one to one (mainly on neutral topics at first - i.e. work), I'm gradually becoming more confortable around her. Not sure if that helps any or not.

I also communicated with her a fair bit via email - again on a safe neutral topic (work related stuff). Perhaps a safe, easy topic/discussion/event that doesn't by itself mean I'm approving of her again (or disproving her or anything - i.e. an emotional neutral topic/event), allowed me to kind of pretend it didn't happen (whatever "it" was) and therefore become more comfortable around her again. I.e. A bit like starting from scratch: safe normal topics, though I suspect I'll quickly get to being more open again.

Hey Paul,

So sorry it’s taken me so long to write you back. This thing has just been killing me, and so I’ve been trying not to think about it, as part of trying to let it go. So far, not much success.

I’m not sure I can keep this short. I feel like you all have been hugely generous with your time and help already. Feel free to skim over the boring parts.

A couple of weeks ago, he had suggested that he thought he might finally be getting over this girl he was obsessed with. I proposed (again!) that maybe we should try dating. I told him I knew he wasn’t sure about it, and that I knew he still had some feelings for this other girl, but that I could live with that, and since we get along so well and are attracted to one another, why not throw caution to the wind and see what happens. I said I’d understand if he felt like he wanted to hold out for something more, but at the same time, life is short and he’s already waited 28 years to be with someone. He said he’d think about it.

And he did, for two weeks. I tried not to put him on the spot about it at all. But unfortunately, last week, we went out with work people for drinks, and when he was giving me a ride home I asked him about it. He had been weird and distant all week. And I said, "It’s no, isn’t it." He said, "It’s no. I feel like I have to hold out for something more." [Which is kinda funny, because he used the exact words I did when I initially suggested it; part of me sort of wonders if I provided him with an excuse.] And I said, "Do you think it’s never?" And he said "Probably."

And I just lost my mind. I told him I didn’t know if we could be friends anymore, not as any kind of punishment or revenge, but because it is just too hurtful trying to be friends when there is such an imbalance in our feelings about one another. He said that he’d probably be pining for me in a few weeks. I said that when I was over him, we could try again.

Then I brought up AS. I hadn’t meant to but I didn’t know if and when I’d be able to talk to him again. I wish I hadn’t brought it up at that moment, when I was purportedly saying goodbye, and when I was not sober. I hope I was as gentle as I could be. I remember saying that he didn’t seem in any way different to me, that when my therapist had initially suggested AS I refused to believe it and insisted it was impossible. That it was only after months of spending time with him and actually listening to the things he was telling me that it started to seem like a possibility. He admitted that he’d definitely considered that he might have it. God I wish I remembered more of the conversation. I hope I was nice and careful. I wish I could go back and do things differently.

Then, for some reason (I was pretty tipsy, did I mention?), I said we should go out and get some food, because I didn’t know when we’d be hanging out again and it could be like a goodbye dinner. Which was, in retrospect, completely psychotic. So we went to a restaurant and I proceeded to get insanely drunk. Stupid I know but the pain was just terrible. It was all a chaotic mess. I don’t even remember dinner. The only thing I remember is being in his car after and trying to like kiss him, more than once, and him stopping me.

So yeah. I skipped work the next day. Terrible grief coupled with monster hangover. Monday I wrote him an e-mail apologizing, and telling him that it was absolutely not okay for me to try and withdraw my friendship, no matter what the reason, when I’m one of the few people he’s ever trusted or felt comfortable around. He eventually wrote back the next day, saying he understood because he gets caught up in his own feelings too, and was glad I still wanted to be friends.

But since then? He’s been, like, gone. I mean, he had already sort of been avoiding me before all this happened, which is one of the things that prompted the whole unhappy incident in the first place. But now he’s just completely absent.

He also has some fairly significant stuff going on. He interviewed for an extremely cool job in another department a couple of weeks ago, and hasn’t heard back, although the rumor is that they’re offering it to him. I know he’s terrified about leaving his friends, and a department in which he feels comfortable, because before he came here, he didn’t really have any friends – people who knew him before he worked here say they thought he couldn’t speak – and it would be a completely new and somewhat stressful line of work he’s never done before. Not to mention, it’s all unsettled, he doesn’t know for sure that he’s being offered the position, so he doesn’t know where he’s going to be in a week, or how much time he’s going to have to prepare for the transition. All very scary.

And his few other friends say he’s not calling them back or returning their texts either. So maybe it’s not just me. Part of me wonders if this is what I’ve heard referred to as an Aspie shutdown. I did manage to get him to answer the phone one night last week, and he sounded terrifically stressed, and scared about the job, and kept saying over and over again that he just needed a weekend where he didn’t have to see anybody or do anything. I tried to speak to him very gently and soothingly, and reassure him that he was going to make lots of friends, that everyone loves him, that he is not the same person he used to be, that change is kind of scary but that change is what allowed him to come here and make friends in the first place. He seemed calmer, after. Was even able to joke with me a bit.

Since then he’s responded to a couple of texts. I asked him to hang out on Friday and he didn’t respond for days; eventually he just sent me a random picture. If it was anyone else, I would assume he was f*****g with me, but I don’t think he’s like that. If it is a shutdown, I know I should be honored that he’s tried to make contact with me at all. But then, maybe it isn’t a shutdown; maybe, he’s just sick of me and the chaos and neediness I bring into his life. I don’t know. I have no way of finding out because on the rare occasion I actually get to speak to him, I don’t want to scare him away by bringing up a bunch of emotional stuff about our relationship again. I just try to be kind and lighthearted and calm.

Oh my god this is a novel. I’m going to respond to your individual posts shortly. Thank you again, more than I can say, for listening to all this. It is so unbelievably helpful to get someone else’s perspective.

Daisy

Hi Daisy,

I have to point out that this is just my take and thoughts on it - and I could be completely wrong!

I think its really good that you said everything that you wanted to (regardless if it was in the heat of the moment). I think you did the right thing here, for both of you.

I don't really think there's much else that you can do (or perhaps even should do): you have made it clear what your feelings are for him and what your hopes are (making it clear in case there was any doubt in his mind which is often the case with aspies) - along with raising the possibility of him having aspergers which probably needed to be said too, in my opinion. I think you did really well.

Now that this is done though its down to him to think things through (albeit taking a lot longer than normal with all the aspie stuff to contend with) and decide on how he feels.

This takes time, and longer than it does with normal guys I'm afraid (which I realise is hard on you).

Note though that him wanting to spend some time alone is a non-issue; its just something that aspies do occassionally. While I'm sure your self along with most NTs would typically discuss your thoughts and feelings with friends or family to get their insight, aspies tend to do the opposite. I.e. we like a bit of alone time during which time we'll sometimes just chill out doing some activity we enjoy (that usually doesn't involve much/any social interation), and also to start figuring out things in our heads. This is probably just what normal guys do, if a little more extreme (i.e. "figuring out stuff on your own"). This is just normal aspie behaviour for many (I usually just tell family that I'm going to be busy for the next few weekends doing work stuff from the house, hence won't be coming over - to the point where my family thinks my boss demands too much of me. Ooops!)

I would suggest giving him time and waiting to see what happens - especially as applying for and starting a new position is something that usually fully engages an aspies stress level (or at least with me, I would struggle to cope with anything else happening if moving positions!). Moving internally is often more stressful, as he could be unsure how his existing friends will react to the move. It can also take the preasure off to be in different internal teams within a company hence improve things (based on my own recent experience, even if this sounds a bit odd).

Hopefully with time to consider things he'll come to appreciate you fully and stop being obsessed with someone else (which requires a bit of growing up in an emotional way - I'm not always good at this, and to be honest, sadly failed to do so the first time I had the chance to date someone special). But at the same time (and I hope you don't mind me saying this) please don't sell yourself short either (regardless of how strongly you feel) if he doesn't feel strongly enough for you - you are an incredible person (I can tell this from the way you care from him, and as aspies tend to trust really honest caring people) and you absolutely deserve to be with someone who returns your love (which I do really really hope will be this person)

Oh god thank you Paul. I don't know what to say. Everything you said is so kind. I want to respond in more detail to all your posts. I'm just so sad and I can't seem to muster the energy to respond in a way I feel that they deserve right now. You have been immensely, immensely helpful.

I don't know what's wrong with me that I am so preoccupied with this person. I think part of it is the uncertainty, A few weeks ago I felt safe enough to show up on his doorstep in tears. Now I feel like I hardly know him. I never know what I'm going to encounter when I run into him -- whether it will be my nice, caring friend or a cold, aloof stranger. Sometimes he seems terribly attached to me and other times it seems like he despises me. And the constant change makes me crazy, lonely, dependent. Because I can never be sure where I stand, I require constant reassurance. I'm turning into one of those insufferable needy girls. I keep thinking of Pavlov's dogs, given inconsistent rewards and punishments, but salivating just the same.

I know you're absolutely right and I need to give him time. Pressuring him is only going to make him flee. One thing I've noticed is that he seems to figure time differently than I do, as you mentioned. For me, I have acutely felt every weekend I haven't seen him, but I doubt he'll even notice my absence for another month, if he does at all.

And yes, this is one of the hardest things for an NT to understand: when we are upset, we want to talk about it, because talking is comforting. I can understand that if you experience socialization as stressful, talking to even your closest friends would be anything but comforting. He's been basically saying all the same stuff you do: I have to work, I'm vaguely, unspecifically busy, etc. I hate how much I stress over where he is -- he's out today and I'm like Where is he? Who is he with? I am not generally this insecure, I swear.

Thank you for saying such nice things about me. I really, really can't tell you how good it feels to have someone say something positive about me right now. I just feel wretched and confused and unlovable most of the time. I haven't fallen this hard in so long and I don't know whether I should start doing the work of getting over it. I don't want to abandon him but at the same time, this is hurting me, badly, pretty much constantly. I feel like I am constantly waiting for him: to remember I exist, to let me know if he wants to spend time with me, to see if he'll speak with me on any given day. I hope I can continue to be a support system for him, but at the same time, being his friend may prove too impossible as long as I have feelings he doesn't share.

Thank you again. You will meet someone worthy of you too, I know it. And you deserve nothing less.

So it wasn't a shutdown. He met a girl. They are in love. He has been afraid to tell me and his solution I guess was just not to tell me or return my phone calls.

I have never hurt this badly, I don't think.

...ouch Maybe he didn't want to see you hurt/probably wouldn't be able to deal with your reaction?? Either way, it's no excuse. Your best bet is to forget him for now. Sorry things didn't work out

Hi Daisychains11,

I'm really sorry to hear that things didn't work out between you

He obviously cares a lot for you to try to avoid hurting you, though he's went about things the wrong way.

I agree with everything AScomposer13413 said above.

While I know it won't help you feel any better, I have no doubt that you will meet another person who you'll love and who will love you in return.

You really are a great person so please don't let this make you become more "closed off" or such like (I know it must be really difficult working in the same environment).

I've met some amazing girls that I just didn't have romantic feelings for, and had romantic feelings myself for other girls whom I know didn't have any feelings for me. You need to give yourself some time to gradually come to terms with this, and persevere until the day you meet the right person who's out there somewhere, waiting to love you back for who you are.