NT female needs advice about aspie relationship

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Even an email or message counts as social interaction. An email can sit in my inbox for 7 days straight without being answered, or it may take me 30 minutes to answer one - it depends entirely on how much interaction I have had that day and whether my brain is in "social" mode enough or not. Everyone has their own preferences. Some are better at talking than email - I happen not to be one of those, but he may be. He obviously sees emails as for work related purposes.

He considers them dates. He would not go to the trouble otherwise - asking you, paying for you, trying to stay as long as he can, offering to help you with your work, etc.
There is no set progression. Just muddle through it together. it's part of the fun.





Maybe try "I really miss our conversations and your sense of humor right now."
It's easiest if you take the confusion out of the equation, by making it specific instead of abstract.
Actually that is a common thing - we are often confused by abstract things. If he is ever confused, just be more specific.



Not necessarily. The last person who told me that they missed me simply managed to confuse me. So no - we don't always get it.

I say away from people with strong perfume - I can smell it off them from 20 ft away.
I have literally run away from people before because of the their perfume. (You know the people who practically shower themselves in it? - it's okay, we know you would never do that )
But you don't know him or if he has sensory issues or what types - the best thing is just to ask him.
We can't answer for him, all of us are different. Some of us are hypersensitive, some of us are hyposensitive - some only have issues with one or two of their senses where as others will have trouble with all five - so just ask him.

Last edited by Kjas on 18 Nov 2012, 4:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Kjas, the olfactory issue? It's *really* bad in me. At work, I can retch if someone smells "wrong". I wasn't even aware this was seen as rude by NT's, and had to be told. I still don't get why people think it is something personal? I just happen not to tolerate the smell, but if it's a perfume, they can either stop wearing it, or move me somewhere where I can't smell it. Same goes with eating. Why do some of my colleagues eat at their desks? (open office). I'm wondering how I haven't been sacked yet? But I see it as them being able to change these things, whereas I can't change how I react to them.

Sandra is right, we can try to understand, but we also need to get to the literal point. you should only have to worry if its something important though. saying "o crap i have something i need to do" he will probably start trying to guess what that something is, but only if he really cares. but down the road you might say something like "get dressed where going out", which would be really bad without knowing EXACTLY: what is the attire is, the expectations, how long you'll be there, how cold it is inside and out, will there be lots of walking, etc.

kjas is dead on accurate, the only way to know his sensory differences is by asking.

i hate most wool, i cant stand high pitch noises, and i shave my chest because the feeling of a shirt tickling my hair is very annoying and actually causes my skin to get a rash (even if i dont scratch).

speaking of tickling, if there is one reason i would ever punch a girl, is if she tickled me. i make it very clear up front and i will and i have followed through. oddly though im not ticklish after sex, probably related to some de-sensitizing thing.

for food, i do notice that i find it disgusting to watch someone eat, but only if im also not eating.

Last edited by ManicDan on 18 Nov 2012, 12:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ManciDan, yes, the name *is* Sandra.

Same here with the wool. I can't tolerate loose clothes on my torso, and when I am aware of it I just want to strip wherever I am. This is a problem, as you can imagine. Also, one of the main reasons why I can't sleep at night. I need to have real tight tops on most of the time. But even those can become irritating.

Tickling is a big NO. But as men don't tend to do the tickling thing, it's not a huge issue and rarely comes up. If a woman does it to me, I will spew profanities Tat's the next best thing to hitting someone.

Oh god, do not get me started on tickling - or massages.

Or for that matter - any kind of scratchy material = hell.

95%of the time I'm walking NT repellant.

Thank you for all the help. I am sorry for making you my support group but I looked around and found very little in terms of people who understand the issue.

It was one thing to read your comments—it was quite another to experience what some of you were talking about. I was in a meeting today and he came late. Both seats next to me were taken but he sat as close as he could. I leaned out of my seat towards him but since I could not say anything (presentation was under way), I looked at him with the special NT facial expression which is reserved for members of the opposite sex and stands for “hey sweetie, I am so glad to see you.” What registered on his face was more informative than anything I could ever read about Asperger’s –he did not get any of the warmth of excitement I was conveying with my eyes and my smile. He did not get it. Instead he looked confused, sort of hurt, and was working so hard to understand what my face meant. I shook my head, gave him one last smile and leaned back. It was sort of devastating.

Afterwards we exchanged a few emails--I kept in mind what you recommended about clear communication, I accepted his offer, depite being aware of his schedule, and we are meeting this Wednesday. I really hope that I will not mess this one up.

As per facial expression - I know it is hard when you're in that situation. *hugs*
It's hard for us too - sometimes we know we screw up but we just can't figure out how - so frustrating, I have often gotten mad at myself for it.

One of the people I told about my aspergers tested me after I told him - just for his own amusement and curiousity I guess.
He smiled at me and then counted the seconds until I smiled back. Then he tried with his 2 friends, separately, again counting how long it took. The first time with his friend I didn't react - I saw it but failed to reciperate in time. The other friend, I managed it, but it took me 5 seconds (2.5 to process it, 2.5 to force myself to make an expression in response). With him when he did it with me - I know it's easier for me to be around him than normal people - I responded in 2.5 seconds, so in other words the time it took me that amount of time to process it but the reciperatation was completely natural and instant instead of forced like it usually is around people.

Since then he has been working on my reciperatation skills in regards to facial expressions and other similar things. I can now respond most of the time as soon as I process it and realise what's going on - at least with him I can do it easily now. If I'm paying attention, I can do it to other people also - although ti still takes 4 seconds or so for normal people. This is a good thing - it means if you can get him used to certain facial expressions or signals that you need him to reciperate to - that can be learnt, and learnt quite quickly, I think it normally takes me 15 minutes worth per new expression / face / sound etc. There will always be a delay in processing time and probably a delay in response - but it can definitely be done.

In fact - I think it's probably a good idea to try it with him and count his response time. Just make it into a little game. It gives you an idea of what is normal for him, and you will be able to tell if he improves also if you keep track of it. It will probably be somewhat important if you end up in a romantic relationship with him - reciperatation is particularly important in that aspect.

Kjas, thank you for your input. I have to tell you I am still a little in shock because this is the first time I was conscious of what I was observing and understood the implications. His lack of nonverbal communication made me questioned the nature of our relationship in the past. I thought he was not interested because he consistently failed to answer to my nonverbal encouragements. In reality, he was dragging himself through an urban minefield to see me every week in a noisy café. He hugged me over my alpaca-wool shawl and offered his help even when he was himself on the point of physical collapse. But I had no way of understanding the extent of his dedication because he rarely smiled, constantly criticized my work, and at the end would bolt out of the café and remain totally silent for a week. There is an NT word for a man who behaves like that and it’s not a polite term.
So my question is…and please don’t take it the wrong way but how do Aspies show emotions? What does it mean when you smile? Does it have meaning or is it merely learned? More importantly, are there any clues that I could interpret to understand what he is feeling when I am talking with him?
It occurred to me that while people with Asperger’s cannot interpret and respond appropriately to NT emotions, so the NTs have no access to Aspie’s emotions. And I think I know what you will say—this where an explicit verbal communication comes in. But NTs are here disadvantaged because words without the nonverbal cues are less clear for us—we are taught early on not to trust words alone and look instead to a person’s body language.
I am really interested in building this relationship (I am assuming that this is a relationship at this point) but I feel that it will not work unless he comes clean about himself. I cannot work on this and pretend that I don’t know. More importantly, I don’t want him to feel cheated or hurt when he realizes what I have been doing. Any thoughts?

We aspies tend to drive women nuts and for good reason I suppose. This is how NT women see us as and I guess we do get like this!![youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqHQPUE42_w[/youtube]The 2 men representing the aspies and medusa as the NT!

I know, it is a big adjustment to make.
Us telling you about things is always going to be completely different to you experiencing them. Words do not accurately convey it. Telling you about an overload or meltdown is totally different to you being on the recieving end of it first hand. In theory having trouble with facial expression and body language - when you say it like that - seem to be something thats not a problem. But when in an actual situation and considering something like over 90% of communication between humans is non-verbal.... that puts a whole different aspect on the same situation.

I doubt his criticizing your work is him trying to be rude. Simply logical... it's his way of attempting to help practically (yes that must seem twisted to you - but there have been threads on this site where people correct others corrections, of corrections, of corrections, of the original correction - and actually thank each other at the end of it ).

We are more likely to show expression among those we know well and trust - and our facial expression tends to be much more subtle, but it is there. Just extremely minimised. My friend of 10 years (and current housemate) can tell the difference between my blank face and when I am confused, upset, concerntrating or happy - he can tell basic emotions by looking at my facial expression, just not the more complex ones. But to my colleagues, they all look like the same face. It takes some time to notice and get used to. Even with other aspies - I have to pay more attention because it is minimized. Once I work out theirs, it's not a problem - but even when interacting with another aspie it can be off-putting at first until I get used to theirs.

I tend to show emotion (if it's strong enough to bother me) in a more physical way - I stim or fidget, move around a lot more. Which stim or way I fidget depends on which emotion. We do understand what a smile means - we do smile, it's not learned - but I have to force myself to show expression around people I don't know or trust. We just have to learn how to identify it when others do it, depending on how bad we are are understanding facial expression - some of us are actually sort of ok at facial expressions, some of us can decode them intellectually rather than instinctively, and for others people mos as well be walking around with a paper bag on their head for all the good it does us. In your example - he was obviously trying to decode it intellectually.

One of the key things I have noticed is that an aspie is listening to me - really listening hard and concerntrating on what I am saying - often they will not look at me at the same time. Because if they are looking at me, it means they can't focus on listening - it breaks their concerntration if they do. But they will stare at the same spot while they are listening to you - often in the same direction, just not looking at you.

Well think of it this way - NT's are taught not to trust words because words lie. And NT's like to lie to each other a lot - they encourage each other to do so by putting social nicities above the truth.
We tend to be more radically honest - all those nice little social lies that you guys tell each other is exactly what we don't do (and usually why we are considered rude or difficult) - therefore words probably will be a better indicator. But you will come to put together our mirco facial expressions, and what little body language we do display together with the words in a way that makes sense. It will just take some time and practise.

Maybe you can if you do it gently enough. It's quite a confronting thing for someone to do - so I would be emphasising that you understand and simply want the truth if you attempt it.
I'm not sure what you can expect as a reaction though. But it might be best so you can start asking him questions more freely.

wow Kjas i just learned something about myself, lol

my symptoms are rather relaxed compared to many on here, and when im listening to someone, i will usually stare off into space so my visual senses are numbed allowing my brain to use that extra power to translate what im hearing. if i do look at someone in the face i usually look past them, or its very easy for me to be distracted and actually end up ignoring what they said.

and Kjas is also right about how criticism is not out of arrogance. many people think im being rude when i have the right answer to something, but really im just trying to be helpful. the key difference is WHY someone is correcting another person. NTs might do it for many reasons. to try and appear as smart, to stand out with a right answer for impressing a boss, to prove they are better than the other person, etc. for aspies its just cause we overheard or saw something that was wrong and simply want to provide the right answer.

some of those i cannot answer because i dont have that much trouble smiling when im around someone close. and as i think about clues that im interested from past experiences like dating, im coming up with a total blank. (it must be harder than i thought). ive been trained that conversations shouldnt put any sexual pressure onto the other person because it might drive them away. but at the same time i also know that without any kind of 'spark' they will just not be interested in me. the way around that is through flirting. on a date i can be talking about work or hobbies and somehow also be sending clues that im attracted to them. well thats something i still dont know how to do for crap.

what you could look for i think is nervousness. when im doing stuff that im the best at, im usually in full control and focused. when im doing something scary, like dates or interviews, i get nervous because i have the ability to lose something. for me its laughing or smiling at the wrong times, fidgety with stuff (although sometimes that happens in a meeting when im bored. butt the differences is that with boredom my eyes are also usually looking at what im fidgeting with)

honestly i think the only way your going to know how interested he is will be by asking him to something a little more intimate, like dinner. to prevent it from sounding too aggressive, say, "i owe you for all the work youve helped me on and want to pay you back". he could accept and might show a little excitement or hesitation. which could help identify how interested he is (be cautious, the idea suggested could be the hesitation, not the offer). or he could decline. but he might decline because of the idea suggested where you then ask "how could i pay you back". or he declines simply because he does not want to know you better. you will need to be ready for this, but the good part is that there should be no tension between you guys because you kept it casual. you could just leave as "i wont forget how nice and awesome you were helping me though".

It's very true. I was listening to someone talk to me today (a colleague) and decided to see if I could understand the facial expressions. In the end, it just turned out I didn't, and because I was concentrating so hard on that, I hadn't paid attention to anything she said. If you try and explain this fact to NT's, they don't get it.

Another point (just trying to be helpful to the OP). A customer asked me today how they were meant to pay a debt. I answered with cash. People around me started laughing and I couldn't understand why. Apparently there was more to the question and the person thought I was being rude. That's not really fair because I answered the question that was asked.

This is why it is so demanding to live in this society, you have to second guess everyone. and why I need to be alone when I am not at work.