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Telling the difference between dating and socialising

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The_Face_of_Boo
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06 Aug 2013, 7:36 am

JanuaryMan wrote:
I'd like to point out that paying the full bill doesn't mean you won't get friendzoned or aren't already in it and are being used.


+1

Correction:

Splitting bill = 100% friendzone (unless the guy is millionaire and the girl is trying hard to give the impression she's not gold digger)

Paying full bill = hope. :lol:


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yellowtamarin
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06 Aug 2013, 6:04 pm

Tyri0n wrote:
One of them I didn't know well at the beginning.

And I think most women would think that might be a date. At the very least, they would be wondering about it.



LookTwice
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06 Aug 2013, 6:10 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Splitting bill = 100% friendzone (unless the guy is millionaire and the girl is trying hard to give the impression she's not gold digger)


I believe most PUAs would disagree with you.


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yellowtamarin
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06 Aug 2013, 6:17 pm

That's horrible to think that every time I try to split the bill*, which is almost every time, the guy is thinking "nooo she's friendzoning me!" :(

*by which I actually mean 'pay for what I ordered' - are the rules different there?



Tyri0n
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06 Aug 2013, 7:05 pm

LookTwice wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Splitting bill = 100% friendzone (unless the guy is millionaire and the girl is trying hard to give the impression she's not gold digger)


I believe most PUAs would disagree with you.


No. She either likes you or doesn't. The bill has little to do with it. Trying to buy someone affection with trifles indicates you are low-status.



Tyri0n
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06 Aug 2013, 7:06 pm

yellowtamarin wrote:
Tyri0n wrote:
One of them I didn't know well at the beginning.

And I think most women would think that might be a date. At the very least, they would be wondering about it.


Probably depends on the context. But no, not always.



yellowtamarin
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06 Aug 2013, 7:29 pm

Tyri0n wrote:
yellowtamarin wrote:
Tyri0n wrote:
One of them I didn't know well at the beginning.

And I think most women would think that might be a date. At the very least, they would be wondering about it.

Probably depends on the context. But no, not always.

If it's not too personal, could you explain the details of this particular meet-up? I.e. how did you ask her to catch up, what were you doing at the time, what sort of place did you suggest you go to, and when?



frankton
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06 Aug 2013, 7:52 pm

I definitely agree that splitting the bill = friend zone

There was a suggestion on page 1 about kissing her hand. Speaking from an NT woman's perspective: please, for the love of all that is good in the world, don't kiss her hand. Not unless you are a european man over the age of 70. Otherwise hand kissing is awkward and slightly creepy. I also would not advise hair touching, not unless you plan to kiss her very soon thereafter.



Ann2011
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06 Aug 2013, 8:36 pm

frankton wrote:
I definitely agree that splitting the bill = friend zone

I think the context is crucial - for example, if we had been going out for a long time, it might be fair to share the costs of doing things together. However, if it's in the first few dates I think accepting the man's offer to pay for the meal is a tacit way of indicating an interest in pursuing a sexual relationship.



oppositedirection
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07 Aug 2013, 6:21 am

I don't get this concept of the man paying for the woman. Would I be correct to suggest that woman desire to feel special and valued, hence they like someone paying for them?

If so, does anyone else think that money is a really shallow way to do this, on the part of both genders? If I care about someone then they are special to me, surely if I really want to spend time around her that should be enough to indicate that she is special? I'm just really concerned that a women might be offended by the way I'm cheapening genuine emotions by expressing those emotions through a financial transaction.

Also, what of romance and confidence? Would it not be much more romantic and show much more confidence if I expressed my feelings to her directly rather than indirectly sending some subtle message via the medium of money?


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frankton
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07 Aug 2013, 3:17 pm

Ann: of course I was referring to the beginning stages of dating. It takes more than splitting a check to basically break up a relationship and go back to being friends

Opposite: when it comes to dating, you can either accept the wider societal expectations of dating or you can expand a lot of effort into explaining to your potential date how you feel that things are wrong. After you put in all that effort you are most likely to be perceived as a cheapskate with excuses.



appletheclown
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07 Aug 2013, 4:22 pm

Umm, tell her it is a date or tell her it is not a date and you are just havin fun with a great friend, it is that simple!


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Ann2011
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07 Aug 2013, 9:42 pm

frankton wrote:
Ann: of course I was referring to the beginning stages of dating. It takes more than splitting a check to basically break up a relationship and go back to being friends

Opposite: when it comes to dating, you can either accept the wider societal expectations of dating or you can expand a lot of effort into explaining to your potential date how you feel that things are wrong. After you put in all that effort you are most likely to be perceived as a cheapskate with excuses.

I got lost in the details. lol
I think accepting a meal is a form of gift exchange. By letting the man provide you with food you are entering a phase of exchange of primal necessities. Also the person who accepts a gift is accepting the submissive role because they are now indebted to the giftgiver. This taps into traditional social custom of the man being the one ultimately in charge.



frankton
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08 Aug 2013, 1:05 am

I and most women I know have been on more than one date where the guy paid but got no sexual favors in return, no second date. Both parties went their own way and nobody was too torn up about it.



oppositedirection
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08 Aug 2013, 5:58 am

Ann2011 wrote:
the person who accepts a gift is accepting the submissive role because they are now indebted to the giftgiver. This taps into traditional social custom of the man being the one ultimately in charge.

Question about female psychology: I appreciate that at the physical act of sex one partner is usually dominant and the other usually submissive and both sides are happy with that. But at any other moment, i.e. when she is not sexually aroused, does a woman still enjoy being submissive to a man she is attracted to? Because if not I don't get why it's happening on a date.


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Ann2011
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08 Aug 2013, 7:13 am

oppositedirection wrote:
Ann2011 wrote:
the person who accepts a gift is accepting the submissive role because they are now indebted to the giftgiver. This taps into traditional social custom of the man being the one ultimately in charge.

Question about female psychology: I appreciate that at the physical act of sex one partner is usually dominant and the other usually submissive and both sides are happy with that. But at any other moment, i.e. when she is not sexually aroused, does a woman still enjoy being submissive to a man she is attracted to? Because if not I don't get why it's happening on a date.

I can only speak for myself, but yes I do enjoy the man taking a leadership role in a relationship. As long as he is not dismissive of me. Some leaders are better than others.