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Please help me understand my ASPie ex boyfriend

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kingjim
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06 Apr 2007, 5:24 am

henna wrote:
He doesn't socialise at all well. In fact I used to dread parties as I am quite lively and I'd suddenly realise he wasn't around... I'd go searching and find him sitting alone in an empty room, sipping his drink and staring into space. He'd also pressurise me to leave early, every time, even though I was enjoying myself. He would especially freeze in formal social situations and dinner parties were an absolute NIGHTMARE - I'd cringe when I'd see people genuinely trying to engage with him and he would slowly murmur something monosyllabic and look ahead, unable to engage. The other person would be visibly quite offended.

...

He is obsessive about a certain strand of politics, and about a certain type of music. Neither of which seemed to bring him much joy, as I remember; he just clung onto them as "things he is into" and hated when other people could talk about them with greater fluency than he or tried to introduce other angles of interest. Same goes with computers. He's a techie geek for a living and clings onto this identity with his life. He would become very irritated if someone showed any degree of knowledge that was greater, or complimentary to, his.

...

He had developed a repertoire of stock phrases and personas for different situations, for example: with his college friends he would become Mr "cool" guy that uses lots of "street" gestures and language, to the point where you cannot actually have any conversation with him as he is so far off in his borrowed persona and you cannot bring him back. In the safety of his own family -who very much treat him as their "little boy"- he reverts to nice, educated son who is into politics, and likes to debate for the sake of it (nothing wrong with that) but who also makes flippant, judgmental remarks. He borrowed many points of view from his family and friends and in the end I was never convinced if anything he said was actually from him or something he had simply borrowed. In social situations with people he is unfamiliar with he freezes, as I have explained. Sometimes with strangers when he was more relaxed or had had a drink he would make conversation by initiating a strange conversation about someone's very personal life, or introduce the topic of his favourite strand of politics or music, expecting the other person to be receptive, when in fact they found it very alienating. Alone with me I would do most of the talking but he would occasionally come out with the odd valuable or meaningful comment.

...

He has no memory bank and does not add context to things. He hates shopping and birthdays. He will never, ever show emotion. The brother of a good friend of ours died and he did not tell me for a number of hours (only after I prompted him) as he felt it was somehow distasteful to talk about it.



Good GOD! For a minute I thought you were talking about ME! Fortunately I know it's not me because I don't date anymore, let elone getting married! YAY!

(No offense, you seem like a nice girl..)

ps- Do you like "The Fall"? They rock!

Just kiding.. as ususal. Maybe he found someone that fits into his reality. Maybe you didn't fit. Not a bad thing. Just not "right". Maybe he didn't know how to tell you. Maybe he wishes you understood.. If he is happy now (whatever that may be for him), be happy for that. Not many people are.

I would tell you my parallel life story, but it doesn't really matter. Just know that life is like that. Fun times for all! WEEEEEEEE!! !! :)



henna
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06 Apr 2007, 6:04 am

I LOVE THE FALL!!

MARK E SMITH IS MY HERO!!

I COME FROM MANCHESTER AND I HAVE SEEN THEM LIVE MANY TIMES AND HAVE MOST OF THEIR SONGS!! !!



Danielismyname
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06 Apr 2007, 7:04 am

To the OP: did you two ever converse through written letters? I’ve found that some autistic (not sure of its peers) people tend to write with their “real” voice, rather than the ”standbys” (or simple retraction) that help to alleviate anxiety in social situations. If yes, and he was a completely different person…well, yeah….



henna
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06 Apr 2007, 7:21 am

"To the OP: did you two ever converse through written letters? I’ve found that some autistic (not sure of its peers) people tend to write with their “real” voice, rather than the ”standbys” (or simple retraction) that help to alleviate anxiety in social situations."

No, we never conversed through written letters. His handwriting was illegible and he didn't like to write much. Like his conversational skills, he'd trail off quite quickly.

We did share many emails, though. But these were brief "hey what's up" kind of things, as opposed to anything in any great depth. We never spoke about anything in great depth. The only profound thing he ever said to me, at the end, was, "I cannot be the man you want me to be". Which just about sums it up doesn't it.



ZanneMarie
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06 Apr 2007, 8:25 am

henna wrote:
Hi everyone

I am the OP

there are so many valuable things you have said here, thank you for all your insights and detailed explanations.... I cannot reply to each and every comment just now but just want to say to the person that questioned, yes I do think my ex is definitely AS. He doesn't socialise at all well. In fact I used to dread parties as I am quite lively and I'd suddenly realise he wasn't around... I'd go searching and find him sitting alone in an empty room, sipping his drink and staring into space. He'd also pressurise me to leave early, every time, even though I was enjoying myself. He would especially freeze in formal social situations and dinner parties were an absolute NIGHTMARE - I'd cringe when I'd see people genuinely trying to engage with him and he would slowly murmur something monosyllabic and look ahead, unable to engage. The other person would be visibly quite offended.

He met his current wife at a one-off event with some friends - an annual college ball. I wasn't there of course. All I can say is that I have met her and she does seem nice, but also she struck me as the kind of girl that did very much want to be married. She talked about it alot. Which brings me onto what someone said about "trophy husband" and living relatively separate lives. She is currently living in Asia, him in the UK! She is carrying out research for her PhD. He didn't want to go with her. Before that they had a long-distant relationship for a while as she had to return to the US to sort out her visa. As I remember he has no ability to get enthusiastic about things he has done or to initiate dialogue on new things, visiting places etc. He is obsessive about a certain strand of politics, and about a certain type of music. Neither of which seemed to bring him much joy, as I remember; he just clung onto them as "things he is into" and hated when other people could talk about them with greater fluency than he or tried to introduce other angles of interest. Same goes with computers. He's a techie geek for a living and clings onto this identity with his life. He would become very irritated if someone showed any degree of knowledge that was greater, or complimentary to, his. His wife is very intellectual and perhaps this is something that bonds them together; I am a "thinking girl" but I also like to have fun and am sociable.

Another really important thing is that he was full of facades and borrowed personalities, which I now see as his own set of survival skills. He had developed a repertoire of stock phrases and personas for different situations, for example: with his college friends he would become Mr "cool" guy that uses lots of "street" gestures and language, to the point where you cannot actually have any conversation with him as he is so far off in his borrowed persona and you cannot bring him back. In the safety of his own family -who very much treat him as their "little boy"- he reverts to nice, educated son who is into politics, and likes to debate for the sake of it (nothing wrong with that) but who also makes flippant, judgmental remarks. He borrowed many points of view from his family and friends and in the end I was never convinced if anything he said was actually from him or something he had simply borrowed. In social situations with people he is unfamiliar with he freezes, as I have explained. Sometimes with strangers when he was more relaxed or had had a drink he would make conversation by initiating a strange conversation about someone's very personal life, or introduce the topic of his favourite strand of politics or music, expecting the other person to be receptive, when in fact they found it very alienating. Alone with me I would do most of the talking but he would occasionally come out with the odd valuable or meaningful comment. I am not saying that he is not intelligent, because he is, and has a good university degree. I am simply talking about how he expresses himself.

He has no memory bank and does not add context to things. He hates shopping and birthdays. He will never, ever show emotion. The brother of a good friend of ours died and he did not tell me for a number of hours (only after I prompted him) as he felt it was somehow distasteful to talk about it.

I could go on and on.... but I hope it gives people a sense of why I came to the conclusion that he has AS. Maybe his new wife doesn't push him to communicate like I did, as one of you pointed out... and that's ultimately what he couldn't take with me, but he can with her.


I had to laugh reading all of this (and not at all at you Henna) because of of this is pretty much me. Well, maybe more my oldest brother than me when you get to the part where he gets mad if others start sticking their two cents in about his obsessions, but the suddenly not seeing him and finding him doing space puppy in another room is definitely me. I will tell you that although you saw no outside signs of enjoyment, he was having a great time in his own head. Spacing off like that is almost like an opiate. It's a wonderful sensation. I do that to my husband all the time, even at home. He coined the phrase space puppy or he picked it up somewhere. When he gets freaked out because I look like I've been in a trance for an hour or so, he'll just say, "Hey, space puppy, come back to earth." He knows I'm completely happy in my own head.

Also, when he does his obsessions, he does enjoy them, he just doesn't give you any normal signals that he is. He doesn't show outward signs because it's all internalized, but that too is like an opiate and can be very addictive. My face and body expresses nothing when I do it, but I love it.

Just reading what you wrote about the parties and you talking at home made me cringe. He did well. I would have screamed shut up. I know me and that's what would have happened. Of course, you'd have had a clue early on that it wasn't going to work out if he had done that. I would also just get up and leave parties where my husband and I had gone. At first that threw him but then he realized that being around people just drains me. I feel like they suck the life out of me even though I can play their game and get along with them. I get zero from them and they take everything from me. I either get sick or have to lie down afterward. You get energy from people which is why you enjoy it. You get something from them as well as give. That's a huge difference. My husband also gets that, but he is different in that once he realized I wasn't like this, he found ways to socialize on his own. It's very rare that I'll go and I leave when I'm exhausted. He's probably just different than you because he doesn't seem to care that people find it odd. I think he enjoys my mind so much he feels like it's a small price to pay to keep it. He's definitely quiet in the house though. I couldn't stand it if he talked like that. We never chitchat. He is definitely not a chit chatter who talks just to talk.

I think his new wife suits him better from the sounds of it. But, as I said, you never know. The only thing that's apparent is that he wasn't the one for you which you figured out. I'm sorry that you were confused and hurt back then (he probably was as well), but hopefully you can find some peace since reading all of these posts.



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06 Apr 2007, 9:00 am

The thing about the different personality traits as a coping mechanism-- I did that when I was younger. When I was around one group I would try to act like them (probably not very successfully), changing my choice of words or inflection... it's sort of an act of desperation, I think, when you have no idea how to interact. You look at the surface behavior and try to mimic it. It's really sad, come to think of it :(.



ZanneMarie
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06 Apr 2007, 9:36 am

I do it so they leave me alone, unfortunately, it makes them think I am like them and sympathize with them so they hang on me all the more. I never realized that until the other day when a co-worker told me that. It's still draining to me and I get nothing out of it. I always think it's hilarious how these parents force their kids to mimic NTs and think it magically makes them an NT. Oh look! Little Johnny acts just like us now and he's so happy! They don't know their kid at all. I guess that might make an extroverted Aspie happy, but most of us are just keenly aware that it's an act, we're still weird and we get nothing out of it. It always ended up making me feel even more alienated and I didn't have the energy to do what I enjoyed when it was over.

It's just amazing to me how most people think you can't be happy unless you are out socializing. What's the big deal about saying we're different? I don't buy into these theories that humans have to interact. Those theories are made up by social people who have nothing to do with me and no idea what my life is like. They're just projecting their reality onto everyone else. It's such a fabrication. My happiest times are actually alone and always have been.



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06 Apr 2007, 11:54 am

ZanneMarie wrote:
It's just amazing to me how most people think you can't be happy unless you are out socializing. What's the big deal about saying we're different? I don't buy into these theories that humans have to interact. Those theories are made up by social people who have nothing to do with me and no idea what my life is like. They're just projecting their reality onto everyone else. It's such a fabrication. My happiest times are actually alone and always have been.


Don't they realize that about 25% of the population are introverted and lose energy by socializing? The extraverts are the ones who could benefit from therapy, a big dose of the introverted Carl Jung.

To the OP: Your BF showed the classic signs of not being able to cope with a "normal" social life (extraversion). It's not your fault nor his. I'm not so sure his new wife is so much a "trophy" (as that seems anti-aspie to me for some reason) or simply gives him enough space and few demands. The demands, resentment of failing to meet them and ensuing fights are relationship killers for practically all of us.


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ZanneMarie
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06 Apr 2007, 12:13 pm

And part of the 25 % has some score on the side of Extraversion and just a higher score on Introversion. Mine is the whole score in Introversion and 0 in Extraversion. It's been that way for the 17 years I've taken that test.

OP: You know, maybe you should take the Meyer's Briggs test with the next boyfriend and you'd be able to see these problems pretty clearly. You are probably more like an ENFP and he could easily have been INTJ. I know they say those two are compatible, but there's no way I could live with an ENFP. I can only be around them a short while. Anyway, if the guy tests with 1 or 0 on the E and F in that test, you know that's not a good fit for you. You definitely need someone with some E and F, as well as someone overtly demonstative and talkative. Some of us are E and F, but we still have a hard time showing affection. It's just our brain not cooperating. It honestly doesn't mean that person doesn't care about you.



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06 Apr 2007, 12:35 pm

ZanneMarie, what's your hubby's type?


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henna
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06 Apr 2007, 2:25 pm

to ZanneMarie:

Just want to say thanks for your long, long and interesting and informative and comforting post earlier today... I've been working so wasn't able to digest it all properly but am doing so now. Thanks.

I am finding some peace now that you and others are helping me with their insights. I do really genuinely want to be happy for my ex and his wife. Not that I feel resentment now either, but I feel as though I need greater understanding and be able to move on as the whole thing has baffled me for 3 years now. I'm glad that I've probably guessed that he's AS as well - although of course, he'd have to take a proper test to find out and I am in no position to recommend that to him. Maybe his wife will do so at some time in the future, if she begins to suspect the same things as me. But that's out of my hands now. I'll just concentrate on my own relationships and if I see them again, try to be appreciative of what may really be going on underneath.

Thanks.



ZanneMarie
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06 Apr 2007, 2:32 pm

He's an ESTJ with almost the same score on his I and N side which is probably why we get along. He's close enough to get along with my INTJ, but just enough on the other side that he can explain the world to me. He's got a pretty good score on his F as well, but his T is much stronger, so when he runs into an AS trait, his N and T are what kick into gear and he leaves the F at home until it's over.

I need to send a nice present to my old boyfriend who said he found me the perfect man. Who knew such a such a social NT guy could have done so well!



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06 Apr 2007, 2:36 pm

Hah, mine is an ISTJ, close enough to N to be interesting, but still a Guardian, which I think is the perfect type for us. :)


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ZanneMarie
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06 Apr 2007, 2:48 pm

We just got lucky. I wish that for all of us here.



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06 Apr 2007, 11:59 pm

What an amazing thread, hits home pretty hard for me. I think Seriousgirl raised what I consider a very profound point about the other persons plans for our free time. Somehow I knew this was an issue for me with my ex but did not come up with such a nice summation. She would always want to get up really early on Saturday mornings and go out to the food market to do grocery shopping and all I wanted to do was sleep in a bit and relax! Or in the evenings when she got home (I work from home) she would want me to go sit with her the whole evening watching bloody tv shows one after the other. I gave in and did it with her a day or two per week but was overwhelmed by a sense of wasting my life.

Can you imagine how outright offensive it is to say that to your girlfriend? So I never did. Though it caused me enough unhappiness to end the relationship, and amazingly enough I used the exact same words on her. "I can't be the person you want me to be" I clearly did not fit her hollywood romance ideal and she could not give me the flexibility I needed. I think we are both better off honestly :) Btw I did not know I was AS at the time.



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07 Apr 2007, 10:21 am

Yep, I ouldn't deal with plans for my free time. My current partner and I have learned to do things in parallel. I am perfectly happy to surf the Web on my notebook while he is watching the baseball game on TV. We can remain in contact, but still engaged in our own activities. That is the way aspie kids prefer to play and I think it is still true for aspie adults.


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