Women SAY they want nice guys ...

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That "Nice Guy Garbage" was most likely posted by guys who thought that all they need to do to get laid is to be a Nice Guy™ and the women would fall into bed with them.

What are turn-offs for women could fill encyclopedias, but here are a few general ideas that are drawn from personal experience (your results may vary):

• Poor Hygiene / B.O. / Halitosis -- Women's sense of smell seems to be more acute than men's. If you took out the garbage this morning, the stink may still linger on you, even though you've washed your hands. Those who don't brush and floss are almost certain to turn women away. Daily bathing with soap is a must. But don't go overboard with the deodorant and cologne, either; even the most pleasant of aromas can seem like tear gas to a woman's olfactory sense.
  
• Unwashed, unmended, or out-of-date clothing -- If you're the "blue-jeans-and-tee-shirt" type, then make sure that what you wear is clean, unfrayed, and free from holes and rips. Sweat stains are as unattractive as "plumbers' crack", so not only toss out those cleaning rags you call shirts, but pull up your trousers and keep them up (wear a belt).
  
• Lack of Confidence -- A man who is clingy or who seeks a woman's approval will not impress a woman as being a mature adult. Not many women seem to want a child in a man's body, so it is best to "man up" and act like you know how to take care of yourself and make decisions on your own. A man who is desperate for female attention will come across as needy and immature.
  
• Rude or Aggressive Behavior -- Lack of civility and manners is one thing; but being openly rude and insulting (even to third parties, like waitresses and valets) is a turn-off. Even a single F-bomb can ruin a date. Violent imagery (tattoos, t-shirts, and belt buckles that depict violent acts) may help you feel 'macho' among your gamer friends, but they may make your date wonder if you would ever be violent toward her. From there, it's only one, small step for her to decide to not risk her safety with you.
  
• Crude or Coarse Behavior -- Women generally do not like swearing, belching, farting, nose-picking or butt-scratching. In fact, if you have to scratch yourself, either do it discretely or excuse yourself and do it privately. Those dirty jokes that make your friends laugh will likely make her wonder how soon she can pull a disappearing act on you -- if your hear the word 'headache' soon after the punch line, then you know you've blown it (the date, not the joke). Save the smutty humor for the locker room.
  
• Lack of Interesting Interests -- Do you volunteer at the pet shelter, or do you collect animal plushies? Do you play an instrument, or just an "air guitar"? Have you run in a marathon, or do you just run your mouth? Can you prepare a four-course meal from scratch, or do you have fast-food deliveries on speed-dial? A man who takes an active role in his own personal life is worth getting to know more than a man whose life revolves around the telly, comic books, video games and fast food.
  
• Inappropriate Attention & Focus -- If you've ever heard the words "My eyes are up here", then maybe you need to work on your social skills. When not making eye contact, look at what you are doing (driving, eating, playing guitar, et cetera) or keep you gaze at her eye level and look at a spot near her head. Don't stare! Remember to blink. Practice facial expressions in front of a mirror. Smile. Listen to what she is saying! Learn to paraphrase what she says and repeat it back to her. Identify her emotions ("You seem to feel ______ about this; am I right?"). Do not try to solve her problems; do not try to judge her, her family, or her friends; do not tell her that she has it all wrong; most women (it seems) are more interested in being heard than in being talked to.

This should do for starters ... I'm sure that the women in this thread have much more to add.

Agreed. Being a Nice Guy™ is just part of what attracts women -- it's like a pretty bow on a box, in that it makes something ordinary seem appealing. But if she gets a chance to peek inside the box and sees nothing there -- or worse, that there is something unpleasant or dangerous inside -- all of the Nice Guy™ behavior in the world won't get her to go near that box again!

Sure, be a Nice Guy™ but don't forget to be an Interesting Man™ as well!

What you're saying is being a nice guy is a necessary condition and insufficient condition. Am I correct?

Don't be a NiceGuyTM.

Just be a decent human being, friendly and polite (my personal definition of "nice"). That, as I said, is the minimum requirement for any kind of social interaction (such as buying a ticket at a movie theater). If you meet a woman with whom you want more than the minimum kind of social interaction, then you have to demonstrate that you have more to offer than just the minimum requirement for social interaction.

There are also the guys that seem to believe that because they were turned down for being nice, that they have to change their attitudes. It's like they are saying "OK. No More Mr. Nice Guy. I need to be x type or y type." Then of course, you start seeing misinterpretations of what women want by these "experts" (usually men) and how the only way to be successful in getting any woman's attention is to learn from them (PUA "gurus" come to mind). Glad I never spent a dime on this stuff.

Anyone else ever notice though that some PUA tactics seem to indicate that the male should take all the responsibility for the way they were mistreated by women because they didn't know how to "attract" women? Because, you know.. women are apparently incapable of being responsible themselves and are entitled to act like children and spoiled princesses? While there are some women out there that act like this, PUA's seem to get the impression that all women are like this.

I know that some are tired of the PUA debate as well, and I won't state the obvious any further than I already have.

If this thread turns into either a PUA debate or a platform for those who believe that being a Nice Guy™ is the key to rejection, I will ask the mods to close it down.

There are some common-sense ideas here, and those men who want to have a relationship that is based on mutual respect, trust and friendship would do well to heed the advice already given by Eureka13 (she's a woman, by the way) -- being a Nice Guy™ is only the start, but if being a Nice Guy™ is all that you have to offer, then you will be forever confined to the Friend Zone™.

Employment, Money, Transportation, and a Home of your own should cover the material issues.

Joy, peace, patience, kindness, temperance, charity and artistic expression should cover most everything else.

To get women interested, be interesting!

Yet you created THIS thread.

If being yourself truthfully worked then why are so many people who are true to themselves unemployed and single? Being true to yourself does not work. One has to conform to certain standards like Fnord has stated.

All I'm doing is pointing out where some might be wrong on this belief that you can't be nice.

I know I didn't say ANYWHERE, that I believed that nice was the key to rejection.

I also know I never disputed anything that anyone else said either.

Bowing out.

You can conform to certain standards and still be yourself. They are like a set of laws that aren't enforced and are only punishable by other people's reactions to you, and how those reactions affect you. It's up to each individual to decide how much they are willing to be flexible in their conformance with those standards. For example, I wear pretty much nothing but jeans, t-shirts (sweatshirts in winter) and boots (tennis shoes or flip-flops in summer), even though I'm female. That's the part of the standards that I don't conform to. But the clothes I wear are clean and, for the most part, reasonably flattering. That's the part of the standards that I do conform to. When I'm at work (or around elder family members) I avoid cursing; when I'm at home or with close friends, I can, and sometimes do, curse like a sailor. In other words, the more "formal" the situation, the more likely I am to conform rigidly to perceived standards. The less formal the situation, the more "me" I let out of its cage. It's up to you how flexible you are in any given situation.

Hopefully, I will eventually find another special someone with whom I can be "out of my cage" all the time. But I will have to gently test the waters with each new person I meet, letting out just a little bit at a time to see how much of "me" they can really stand. And then when I reach their limit, I have to decide if I am comfortable with the level of "me" that doesn't exceed their comfort level. I do this with virtually everyone I meet, whether co-worker, friend, or potential romantic interest. How much of "me" they can tolerate usually determines how much time I'm willing to spend in their presence. The more strictly I have to conform, the less time I want to be around them.

You might get lucky like I did once (with my late fiance) and find someone in whose presence it takes very little time to be comfortable being totally yourself. I wish that for all of us.

And what, exactly, is wrong with these three topics? This reeks of bias. You could spend an entire lifetime immersing yourself in just one of those things and come out an interesting person.

Do you have interesting opinions on video games? Is there an online, competitive video game you've achieved a great deal of skill in? Perhaps you write good reviews? Have a wide breadth of knowledge of the video gaming world? Help run a notable video game website? Host LAN parties with other interesting gamers? Perhaps even work in game development as an artist, writer, or programmer?

I already do have that special someone who I love dear.

I think I understand what you're saying now. You're saying to treat it as a sliding control on a mixing board and what I have to do is adjust these controls in such a way that will make the good sound. Really, my issue is with black and white thinking.

Your point is ... ?


That's part of what this thread is addressing -- the MYTH that being nice will prevent a man from attracting a woman.

A man can (and should) be nice, but if that's all that he has going for him, then he is likely to become a life-long resident of the Friend Zone.


Nothing, specifically ... I suppose that I should have been more clear. I should have said, "A man who takes an active role in his own personal life is worth getting to know more than a man whose life passively revolves around only the telly, comic books, video games and fast food." That is, if a Nice Guy™ takes interest only in watching the telly, reading comic books, playing video games and eating fast food, then he is not likely to be very interesting (if at all) to a woman who leads a more physically and socially active lifestyle. He is also not likely to have a job, either.

Those who have become successful in any commercial field -- including the television, comic book, video game and fast food industries -- will certainly be more interesting than the aforementioned house lout.

If dating were a track event, bad boys would be the sprinters and nice guys would be the distance runners.

... and the track star who wins the most gold medals gets the girl.

Bad boys are sprinters because they may be more exciting and cool then nice guys and might be more fun but it's not that way for long. Bad boys don't make good long term partners. Thats why they're sprinters.


Nice guys are distance runners because they may not be as fun and exciting as bad boys but they make excellent long-term relationship partners. Thats why they're distance runners.

So tell me ladies, do you prefer sprinters or distance runners?