Trouble with initiating relationships

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I apologize for the rather generic topic - I know this must be one of the most commonly discussed problems when it comes to autism. I also have a feeling that this post will become quite long, but I try to summarize my points and not to go off on any tangents.

Anyways, as you might've guessed from the title, I have problem making friends, but I'll be focusing more on my problems with making contact with the opposite sex in this thread.

For the past 5 years I've been trying to find a girlfriend online to no avail and I've been running through the same loop again and again. I get motivated to contact females on hopes of finding a girlfriend, get mostly ignored and short conversations that go nowhere, eventually maybe getting a bit further along with some one who seems promising, only to to end up getting rejected one way or another. Most of the time they just quit talking to me after a while or disappear, leaving me wondering what went wrong as we were chatting just a week or 2 ago and everything seemed fine. What follows is either hurt feelings&depression or frustration (some times both), I give up and I quit trying to socialize with people. The followings months I'm happy spending all of time alone focusing on my hobbies and interests. Then again something sparks my interest in the opposite sex and the cycle continues.

My friendship situation isn't quite as bleak. I haven't had real life friends for almost a decade now, but I spend time with my big sister&her BF and my cousin every few months, so I'm not completely alone. I used to to have a lot of online friends and was good at making friends (+being a leader, organizing events etc) in MMORPGs, how ever most of those friendships have died over the years. I still have 2 people I talk online: my cousin and a former WoW-buddy of mine. However during the last 1½ years or so we've started drifting further apart from each other, so I don't talk to them as often as I used to. This in turn, combined with the fact that I can't find a girlfriend, has been causing me anxiety and distress over the last year. I don't drink nor do I plan on starting, but I can see why people drink/use drugs in these situations. The mental "pain" (that sounds very corny and emo I know) is quite unbearable some times, and knowing that there's no one I can talk to about this and that there isn't going to be any salvation either as I can't make any new friends, it's quite bad, makes me afraid that it might lead into a more serious, long lasting mental issue.
I'm quite happy alone and I dont need superficial relationships in my life (I've told that ex-WoW buddy of mine that I'd prefer we stopped talking altogether if he'll continue acting the way he has for the past 1½-2 years). However I still have the emotional need for a relationship other than my parents/sister. I'm quite content being alone and often feel very joyous and euphoric when I get to spend time alone on my hobbies, but I still feel longing for a soulmate whom to share my interests with (and to be honest, I'm intrested in sex too). Now if I could just get rid of all sexual and emotional urges regarding women I'd be glad, but I'm stuck being a heterosexual, and not being able to satisfy those urges and feelings is what causes me sorrow and heartache, so I'd like to either find a girlfriend or find a way to get women out of my thoughts completely (I don't think chemical castration actually removes "romantic needs" like it does physical ones?)

The thing is, I don't know how to find one. When it comes to guy friends, it's not as hard to find suitable "candidates" as it is with women, but I don't know what to say to them. I might see some one online who's into a lot of stuff I like, initiate a conversation but I really don't know what to say or do to go from that conversation to being friends. But I also initiate a conversation more easily with females, I don't want to start talking to a guy unless I actually have something to say to them, where as with girls I try to just come up with something to say if I see that they like a lot of the same stuff as I. Usually I recommend them music/games, like "hey, since you like both Black metal and Lord of the Rings/JRR Tolkien, you should really try listening to Summoning!"
The problem with both guys and girls is, that conversations end rather quickly. Usually the reply to my recommendations (if I even get one, most of the time I dont) is "ok, thanks". I don't really know what I could reply to that in order to prolong the conversation. With guys I might have a short conversation about something (like: hey I see you collect Sonic the hedgehog stuff, what do you think of the latest game?), but once the initial conversation ends, there's nothing left to say, and I don't have the courage to outright ask "hey since we have a similar taste in music&games, would you like to be friends with me?"
With girls the same problem exists, but I try to ask them questions every time they send me a reply, so that the conversation would keep on going. I have managed to get girls to skype/email with me, and on many occasions the same thing has happened to me: we might get along fine, have no problems talking online, but eventually we just stop talking. The conversation might get very one sided and I get the hint and shut up, or with emails/in okcupid chat, the other partner just doesn't respond anymore. Now it might be that they've found a new partner, forgot to reply or what ever, but this has happened to me so many times that it cant be a coincidence.

I'll give a very recent example of this, one that still hurts my feeling to this day, one that motivated me to register on this forum and ask for advice. I noticed a girl in OkCupid who seemed very like minded, liked a lot of of the same things and I and was into a hobby (not going to name it here) that's very technical and obscure that I'm also interested in. Seeing a girl her age being in interested in something like that is very rare and she's also cute, seemingly like-minded and has a similar taste in music, so she's a rare find indeed. I talked to her and the conversation ended rather abruptly. I asked her about the hobby, she replied to me, telling me about what she does, asked me if I had ever been involved in it etc. All this time she seemed positive and enthusiastic, but as soon as the conversation had started, it ended. She replied to me thrice and then suddenly stopped. It's been over a week now and she's been online multiple times. Just take my word for it when I say that I didn't say anything that could in any way, shape or form be considered stupid/awkward/creepy. I'd like to say something to her and try to get conversation rolling again but I have no idea what to say, and since the last 2 messages were sent by me, I think it'd look quite desperate and inappropriate if I sent her a third one after she didn't reply to my previous ones.
Since she seems so awesome, this thing is really depressing and annoying me. What did I do wrong? Seemingly nothing, this whole deal seems so inexplicable to me. And that's what is causing so much distress to me. I keep finding these girls who seem like my dream girls and keep getting turned down when I'm not downright ignored. Or if I can talk to them, I run out of things to say and that's it. I never even try talking to the sporty, outgoing party animal types, I only approach ones who are intelligent and describe themselves as more introverted (and are interested in the same hobbies as I am).
In Okcupid, many of them often have in the "you should contact me if...."-section things like "You actually read my profile" or "you have something interesting to say" or "you can say more more than just "hi" or tell me how big your penis is". I understand that I might seem a bit too blunt/forward and enthusiastic about my hobbies when approaching these people, but that's exactly what I'm doing. I pay attention to what they write about themselves and show an interest in their personalities, rather than just looks.


So I'd like to know if any one here (AS men who've found a relationship through dating sites/internet and women in general) has any kind of advice they could give me? I really am at my wits ends here. I know for starters that one great problem that I have is my height (I'm 5ft6/1,68 ), so I know that's a big turn off in my OkCupid profile. Well there's nothing I can do about it, and I guess I'll just have to rely on my luck in order to find a partner who can look past that. At least my facial features and hairstyle are reasonably attractive I think (and have been told so) and I'm not obese or too thin, so I don't think that it's unattractiveness that's the problem here.
As far as the content of my profile goes, I've tried different approaches: telling intimate details about my personality, joking around and giving irreverent answers to the questions or like I'm currently doing, just listing things that I like and care about (music, games, movies, tv shows etc). I never complain or list any of my negatives/issues (apart from my height) so I'm not giving a desperate/negative vibe, but I don't really try to "sell" myself as a super awesome person either, I just write truthfully about my interests (so I guess my profile "lacks emotion"?).
When it comes to how I talk to women when first approaching them, I've tried both being casual and "serious". I don't really know which to do as each one is an individual and some times I'm met with very casual writing when I'm being serious and vice versa. I reckon that being very serious and matter-of-factly might scare off many women, but then again I've met that kind of response from some women so I really don't know what to do! I feel like I might be too cold when my partner is writing casually, using smileys etc and I'm very serious, and I feel uneducated and low class when I'm doing the same thing to some girl who writes in a very serious tone.
The same goes for how I represent my personality both in real life and on the internet. Should I play it cool and be very cold and emotionless or try to be a nice guy (and potentially look desperate/like a doormat in the process)? In reality I'm a bit off both, my demeanor is cold and stoic, but I'm often polite and (unintentionally) smile quite a lot when I talk to people, I don't like showing emotions around my family members or other people but when I'm alone playing with my cats/enjoying a good game I'm often in a state of childlike happiness and I feel very strongly about things that are very near and dear to my heart etc. That's a big problem that I have with my masculinity, I'm uncertain how I should act. Am I being too cold and distant here, does that scare women away? Am I being too emotional and weak here, does that scare women away? Should I be an exciting bad boy and ignore them and act unintrested, or will that scare them away? Should I be super nice and considerate, or will that scare them away? Etc etc, I think yall get the point by now. That's also a fear I have if I get into a relationship. I hope I could be myself around that person once I open up and we get more close, but I'm scared of being taken use of, being cheated on etc if I'm not manly/exciting/considerate/...../ enough.

Oh and I guess that many of the games/bands/TV shows/movies/interests I list in my profile are so obscure that many people aren't aware of them, so maybe that might work against me too? Despite the fact that I'm very passionate about some quite niche things that most people will not get (which, I assume, is sadly a negative thing in most people's eyes?), I still like to think and hope that a person like me could find a like-minded girlfriend. As long as she likes playing video games and watching cartoons/anime (+maybe some of the music that I like), I don't really care if she's seen/heard/played most of the stuff I like, I could introduce her to that stuff later, as long as she likes spending time indoors with me.
I'm quite well-read so I can talk quite well on number of societal/political/scientific subjects, so it's not like my passionate interests are limiting me so much that I can't talk about anything else. I didn't really bring this up when talking about MMORPGs, but I'm capable of having long, interesting conversations with people and I can be really witty and funny to boot.

I would just want to find a girl whom to share my interests with. I don't think it should be this hard, but so far it has been.
As to why I couldn't just settle for a male friend:
1. Finding them is almost equally hard (ones that I could actually hang out with in real life, that is)
2. A girlfriend takes care of two problems at once (romantic needs and some one to share your passions with). I've always had the idea that you should have mutual interests with your girlfriend/wife, which I think is a more feminist way of looking at things. Some of my ex-internet pals who had girlfriends didn't seem to have much in common with them, and used them only for physical satisfaction, where as they had "brotherhood" and some level of spiritual connection with their male friends. I don't think I could live that way. I also care about woman's personality, isn't that what's stereotypically wrong with men ("they're only after one thing")?
3. I already have my big sister and, at least for the time being, my cousin. And if I want to talk with like-minded people I can look for a forum/IRC channel that specializes in my interests.

Oh and by the way: I don't play MMORPGs anymore, so finding friends/girlfriend that way isn't an option. Even when you do meet nice people in games/on forums, most of the time they live far away in some other country, so it's not a very good method. I mostly use OkCupid, a local dating site (biggest one where I live) and a local social networking site called IRC-galleria when I'm seeking for like minded individuals. The problem with the social networking site is that even though you find more women who are into the same stuff as you are than you do on dating sites, it's much harder to go and talk to them.


I apologize for the length of my post and I hope that it doesn't look like a big wall of text full of incoherent ranting and whining. Like I said, I'm at my wits end as I don't understand why I'm not having any success after years of trying. I know I'm far from an ideal partner, but despite my low self esteem I must still be true to myself and admit that I'm intresting, intelligent and good looking enough that women shouldn't avoid me like the plague either. I'd especially like to know if there's any way I could have another chance talking to the girl whom I mentioned in paragraph 6. With out straight out asking from her what I did wrong and looking like a desperate idiot in the process that is.

Maybe you spend too much time in your head and have lost the ability to connect with people. If you ever had it in the first place.

Like, the reaching out, getting engaged in the other person's life and interest, that doesn't seem like something you are even aware of, let alone do. Formulaic exchanges don't work for very long, only as ice breakers.

You also want someone to spend almost all their time indoors. That's really quite out there request, I don't know if you are aware of that?

I can totally sympathise because I also really enjoy my own company a lot (but we do both frequent online forums so there is that need to socialise - in a controlled manner) and find it excruciating when I have to interact with real humans. The more you indulge yourself the harder it gets. Not sure what to say about your awesome girl from last week other than maybe she found someone more interesting or got bored of you. Sorry, but this happens. Don't let it get to you, just acknowledge they are not the right person for you and move on.

I'm not really sure that you are doing anything wrong, it's more that the person who would be compatible with you is not a frequently found type in the society so it stands to reason they will be difficult to find.

What I'd like to hear more about is what I should say to people to make them realize that I'm interested in them? Just stating the obvious (oh you like X? I do too) doesn't seem like a very good conversation starter. Both in social networking sites that aren't specifically intended for dating and online dating sites like OkCupid.

Could be

Could you elaborate? I don't quite understand what you mean here.


I don't state so in my profile. I don't enjoy going outside and I'm mostly interested in things that you do indoors. I do like nature and peaceful old towns and old architecture in general so it's not like I'm totally opposed to going outside with some one, it's just that there's nothing that interests me in the city and I find social situations, places of full of people, public transportation and all that distressing. I don't want to go to cafes, bars, night clubs and places like that and I definitely don't want to just "hang out" in the city. What my partner wants to do on her own time is up to her. It's not an unreasonable thing to ask from some one who's introverted and into the hobbies I like. I have to go to school and I visit gaming stores and a near by convenience store often so it's not like I'm a total shut in either.


Like I said, I'm happy when I put girls out of my mind completely and just spend all of my time focused on my hobbies. But eventually they creep their way back into my subconsciousness I just try my luck again. So it's a choice between being more happy but deluding yourself/ignoring your needs (or just telling yourself that you wont find a partner anyways) and wasting a lot of time and effort trying to approach women only to get ignored and have my heart broken time and time again.


That's a problem I have, when ever I see some one with a lot of potential, my mind starts going crazy and I start fantasizing (not sexually) even before they've replied to me even once. Whenever I think I might have a chance with some one, they occupy my thoughts for days - I might even see them in my dreams. When they reject me, it hurts. And when you're rejected and your feelings are hurt for years, it's hard to stay optimistic ("oh, you'll find some one eventually", yeah, when I'm 45).

Hence my mental anguish I mentioned earlier. At the times when I have a really strong yearning to find a some one to connect with, the realization that the next 5 or 10 years might not be any different make me very anxious. I might get lucky if I wait for 7 years, or maybe 8, but there's no guarantees. And that person who might be perfect fit for me might get bored with me after couple of messages and look for some one more exciting.

Try helping people. I haven't gained a girlfriend from this but I've made several friends this way. Don't assume everyone you help wants to treat you like a doormat. You can make friends this way and one of them might be a girl. Also try befriending friends friends. Some of them might be girls.

See if you have any skills that people might need help in. I've made friends from helping people with their computers and teaching people how to drive. If you don't know anyone who needs help you could always volunteer.

Try hanging out at the local community center. I do. The people there are quite friendly. You can even meet girls there. There's this one girl there who's infatuated with me. I hate her but you might find one you don't hate.

Don't have any friends apart from my cousin and sister. My cousin lives in another city, so I can't really try and socialize with his friends. And like I said, I don't like showing my emotions to people, same goes for talking about them. I couldn't ask for help or advice from my parents or sisters even if I wanted, it's too embarrassing.

And I don't really know how to nor want to socialize with people who aren't like minded. I can talk for hours with some one whose at the same wavelength with me, but when I'm amongst people who aren't (like it's always been in school), I feel like a fish out of water and would just rather go home. Same goes for community centers, I don't know if there is one where I live. I'm much better at making friends online, it's easier to talk to people and also to see that they like similar things as you (which I know is not the same thing as being on the same wavelength). I don't have the courage to open my mouth and just start talking to strangers. Same goes for my school mates, I don't think I could ever just approach a girl out on the hallway and ask them for a date. I might be more courageous with a male class mate who has indicated that they're interested in something I like too, but that hasn't happened to me in the school I currently go to.
I tried joining a sort of a game club once at my sister's insistence and I rushed out of the place when I got a panic attack. Things will go more smoothly if I have more control over the situation. So yeah, approaching people online seems more suitable to me. I will admit that when you meet some online first, it's kind of intimidating to actually go and meet them in person where as you don't have this problem with people you meet in real life, but finding like-minded people is more of a lottery in real life, where as you can search people more effectively on the internet.


Oh and the helping people thing seems like a good idea. Would giving recommendations to people count as that? That's really what I do best, I don't have any practical skills but I know a lot of things. Especially about video games, since I spend so much time reading about them, getting to know their history, reading developer interviews and researching and playing older games that most people haven't heard of. Though so far people haven't really been reacting to my recommendations all that well.

Oh yeah, anime conventions seem like a place with a lot of girls (way more girls than guys by the looks of it) who are more introverted etc. Are they a nice place for some one like me? I don't cosplay and even though I like anime, I lean more towards western animation (but there's lots of very Japanese games I like).
But like I said, I don't think I could approach random strangers and just start talking to them, don't have the courage and don't know what to say to them if I don't know anything about them.

Eh, a little bit but without being in a club that might not work There are Facebook groups that meet up for all kinds of things but I guess you wouldn't like those either (then again, I'm not in one so I can't criticize).

Video games have a broader fanbase than some obsessions but try improving your general knowledge. It really helps with conversations.



I've never been to one (can't see the point, it won't help me obtain more animes from bittorrent and I think they spend most of their times waiting in lines) but I wouldn't count on those girls being too introverted. I know some girls who sit at home and watch anime so it must be the most extroverted ones who cosplay.



Yeah, I don't do that often either. I can't say how to make friends from scratch, all of my friends were introduced by friends and those friends just started out as same age kids of parent's friends (never kept any school friends after school but kept in touch with non school friends most of the time). Helping people with stuff only seems to work if you're at least acquainted with them to start with. I guess with your similar age relatives, you could try to get to know their friends (some of whom may be girls or know girls).

Also maybe you could take a course in a community college. Some of the girls I met there were pretty introverted (probably because they weren't the type to go to a full college). Even if you don't hook up it seems like you just need to get better used to being around people (so do I come to think of it, I keep on hanging out with the same people). Try taking a computer course. They have anything from basic to advanced and that's were the nerdliest women are to be be found. I think I'll even go back there myself since I'm so sick of my current job.

Also women tend to be judgmental about your level of activities in work or study. They'll judge you harshly if you sit around all day like I do but if you're in a course then they already know you're doing something.

I don't have trouble with my general knowledge, I just cant think of anything to say to people. For example not so long ago in my school we were assigned to debate on number of random subjects and my group picked me as the leader because I came up with more arguments than the rest of my group put together (thanks to logical thinking and knowing a lot of random stuff about politics, economics, science etc). On another occasion on the bus trip home a group mate of mine approached me and tried striking up a conversation and apart from asking a couple of contrived questions like "we have the day off on Tuesday next week, right?" I couldn't come up with anything to say and we spent most of the trip being silent. I used to be really shy in school, but I don't have trouble speaking to my group mates when it comes to group assignments, I'm often even the leader/one who speaks most. But during breaks when people chat with each other, I don't say a word as I don't have anything to say.
So to summarize, as long as I have a clear idea of what I'm supposed to be doing/talking about, I don't have a problem. When it comes to casual conversations and trying to make new friends, I don't have anything to talk about unless I know for a fact they're interested in something that I like.


That's how I feel tbh, I don' see the point in these kind of things unless there's a lecture I want to hear, stuff to buy or something like that. Other than that, going to bars/clubs/community centers/conventions to find friends seems like such lottery. But if I were to attend one, I think anime conventions would be pretty high up on my list.


I'm already going to school full time, used to be unemployed. Going outside is very physically and mentally straining to me (my trip to school is around 55-60 minutes using public transportation, which I hate). After a school day, I don't have the energy to do anything but sit on the computer/play games. Even when I don't have school it's a hassle. There's just something about going outside the house that makes me very reluctant to do it, it's not as bad as it was before though, but the physical exhaustion (exhaustion is a bit too strong word for it) is still there.

Hmmm, well at least you're not a motormouth like me. It really puts people off when I start ranting about some trivial aspect of history. At least you use your general knowledge in places where it's actually appropriate.



OK but aren't there also other types of nerd convention? Why limit yourself to Anime? Maybe you could find a Seven of Nine cosplayer. Then again from what I hear a lot of the lady cosplayers now are gender benders so it might be Ms Spock.



Oh, I didn't realize. I guess this is what happens when I make assumptions.



Ugh, I hear you. Communist transportation. The trains are so crowded and the bus jerks around so much I can't even play video games or watch movies without getting nauseated so I have to listen to an audio book. If it wasn't for my beat up old Ford I'd have to use it all the time and I'm pretty sure they plan to take my license away due to a certain traffic violation (if I'm lucky they'll just stick me with a $2,000 fine). My occasional dates are already hopeless enough. Turning up in a car is one of the few things that makes me look like a functional adult and now they might take that away for a year?



You have more energy than me. Nowadays I don't have the energy to play games most days. And the last time I studied full time I quit due to exhaustion even though I was passing. Maybe I should go back. My job isn't really that unpleasant but I hate it on principle and besides, I should leave that company before they go out of business.

Enough about me. What are you studying anyway?

I might be when approaching these girls and a chance opens up to talk about games, which might be off putting, but I try keeping myself under control and asking questions to show that I'm interested in them


What kind of conventions are available seems to depend quite a lot on the country. In USA there's a lot of retro gaming conventions these days, which I'd love to attend (though they're probably 98% male, most retro gaming communities are), but there are none here, where as we've got loads of anime conventions. And judging by the pictures and online communities, there's more females than males there.


I was terrified that I wouldn't have enough to energy to do anything when I started my school, which so far hasn't been a problem yet. I got burned out in high school and developed a real phobia for studying (fear of social situations+afraid that I cant mentally&physically handle regular 8-16 school/work days), which has made me kind of unambitious, I was aiming for university before but now I'm studying low level economics, thinking to myself that if I can get a reasonably high paying, stable and comfortable (if boring) office job where I can keep to myself, I'm happy. But there's a part of me thinking that hey if I can handle the social situations in my current school, I should be able to apply for a more ambitious and academic path.

Fun fact: I considered becoming a truck driver so I could move to Australia.

That sounds a lot like me. I had severe burnout in school, incompetent school councilors, mild burnout in community college (but still enough to make me quit) followed by a job which isn't horrible but is unambitious and unimpressive. Not a "real job". Maybe now that I'm older I could handle study. Back in the day I thought doing nothing would be paradise but now I see it gets dissatisfying after about a decade. Even if I could handle study, the resultant job could be a different thing. For a while last year I was convinced I should be an accountant. The course looked doable, the job looked doable but what put me off was the thought of spending every tax season working 16 hours a day.

8 hours a day seems to me like a lot but reasonable. 16 hours a day seems to me like something ridiculous but I think it may be the norm for many professional jobs. It seems like increasing hours would increase unemployment but I guess there's a shortage of skilled labour, not a shortage of unskilled labour. I was thinking I could handle a basic IT course while keeping my current part time job (so as not to burn my bridges) but I have a feeling if I got a job out of that at all I'd end up in tech support which might not be a "real job" for anyone too far above 20.



You considered it but then you reconsidered it? I guess you found out it's a pretty hard job. Either that or you found out that truckies often have to buy their own truck first.

Australia might be a more beneficent society but our infrastructure isn't up to modern standards.

Also, you don't necessarily keep to yourself in an office. Office workers are nice people except when it comes to office politics. You're boss might not be openly mean. They're sometimes cruel while pretending to be kind. When they think up some ridicoulous new rule they can be almost apologetic but the result is the same. Then they tell you the new rule has always existed (like 1984). Chances are you won't be in a room by yourself but then again I met one of my best friends at the office.

As an NT female, I'd recommend that by the third message you ask her out for coffee or to meet at a bookstore (or other location of your choice). Heterosexual women often like a guy to take initiative. Remember that you're one of many, many men who are messaging her. As someone who has been on the receiving end of those messages, it is not uncommon for a reasonable attractive female to receive ~20 messages/day (or more!). 80% will probably be automatically discarded for being obscene in nature. She may choose to respond in some fashion to the remainder. Over time, that adds up to a lot of conversations that she has to keep track of. It may be somewhat rude, but some women may find it easier to ignore conversations that have stalled, in favor of new conversations that seem more promising.

So ask her out sooner rather than later. Worst case scenario, she'll say no and you'll get closure that way.

That's crazy, I mean you hardly know the other person by the third message. I've thought you should first become friends before meeting offline. Meet when you've become better acquainted and reached a comfort level in your conversations.
"Do you like Deus Ex?"
"Yeah I do, it's one of my favorite games"
"Oh cool, mine too. What did you think of Human Revolution?"
"Oh it was ok, not as good as the first one"
"ok, wanna go out to a movie with me?"
I can't imagine some one agreeing after such a brief discussion.

And I guess the fact that I still live with my parents doesn't help my case at all, as meeting at my house would be the best choice for me as I've got so much stuff I can show, games we can play etc that I wont run out of things to say. I don't really like going to cafes or any place like that where other people can and will involuntarily eavesdrop on your conversations. That's why me and my cousin never talk to each other when we're riding the subway, eating at McDonalds or just walking through the mall.