"Shall we go out on a date?"

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Hello everyone!

I have regularly checked this part of the forum for answers in my quest for an intimate relationship in the past year.

Alright, so there's this girl at my university that I have known for over a year now. I've been in love with her since the first time I met her. Naturally, we became very good friends! Last school year, we chatted inbetween classes and we had many deep conversations through e-mail correspondence. This school year, we now talk out a time and a place meet each other one-on-one to review concepts in Chemistry that I think I need to brush up on, since she thinks its sort of an interesting subject for her and she'd love to help me out with it. Inevitably, we engage in friendly conversation between the exercises, and I even open up to her emotionally about things that upset me. Do you know what she does? She just listens.

In fact, the last time we met, which was two weeks ago, we didn't do so much reviewing Chemistry as we did just catching up on each other's lives (because we hadn't seen each other in a little while after the first two times we met up one-on-one) along with talking about current events. At the end of that meeting, I gave her a gift that my life coach handed to me one Friday, telling me (jokingly of course) that I "desperately" needed it. It was a bonus card for a brand of cosmetic products. She liked the gift! Before we parted ways, I wanted to take the time to tell her why I love her: because she's very sweet, she's very kind, she's very helpful, she's a good listener, she cares a lot about children (she says she does, which I affirmed to her that I loved that about her), and to top it off, I told her that I thought she was cute. I did this all in an upbeat manner rather than a sentimental manner that one might expect (because her presence fills me with happiness and raises my spirits). She thanked me with a smile for each of these compliments, and she thanked me for being such a great friend. I asked if we could hug. We did.

Now, I am going to meet with her again this Wednesday. This time, I want to ask her if she'd like to go out for dinner some time. However, when I talked about this with my therapist last week, if I wanted to impart to her that I am interested in being more than friends with her, since friends naturally do fun things together like go out for dinner, she suggested that I ask her "would you like to go out on a date" instead of "would you like to go out to dinner." I talked to my life coach about what my therapist suggested to me later that week, and he told me that whether I would say "would you like to go out to dinner some time" versus "would you like to go out on a date some time" depends on how comfortable I feel at the moment about it.

So, what do you think? How do you think I should broach this to her when I meet her on Wednesday?

This, my friend, is a GOOD sign.

I'm on a Dale Carnegie kick as of late. Carnegie's advice is predicated on inherent human selfishness. In other words, what we do is based on what we want for ourselves. It's all about what we can get out of other people. So the first thing you should do when you want to make friends with someone is display an ACTIVE, GENUINE interest. In other words, you show someone that they utterly fascinate you when you LISTEN to them and keep them talking about themselves or their own personal interests. According to Carnegie, you aren't allowed to open up to someone UNLESS your interest is somehow intertwined with theirs. It's shared interest and common goals that put people together, just like with you and this lady.

You have a lot of history as "friends," and apparently you both know a lot about each other. This is a good thing. People who view each other as "just friends" keeping it in the friend zone aren't typically willing to take it out of that zone. The way I see it, getting a date with this girl is going to be a delicate matter, and you need just a tiny ounce of "smooth" if you're going to pull this off.

My theory based on things I've read here and elsewhere is you potential date isn't willing to take it out of the zone, especially since you've been friends this long already, and any effort on your part to nudge it out of the zone is going to be perceived as threatening. And that's why you have to be slick about how you play this.

Here's what I would do: Make plans for some kind of date. You've been friends for a year and have had some deep conversations, so you SHOULD know what she likes and what she'll enjoy doing. Tell her you're thinking about going to [place] for [whatever_people_do_there]. Ask her if she'd enjoy hanging out at [place] and if she could be ready to go by [hh:mm], or if another time would work better for her. If she says "yes," you say, "awesome! I'll see you then."

For the love of all things bright and beautiful don't call it a "date"! !! It's just a silly word, but it carries some unfortunate connotations. What you're going to do over, say, the next three months is you're going to ask her out every 1-2 weeks. Whether anyone wants to admit it or not, the two of you will be steady dates by the time this is over with. Ideally, I'd want her to wake up one day and be utterly confused because it really seems like she's someone's girlfriend, and she'll be wondering how she got here.

At that point, if you manage to hang in there long enough, ask her if she's interested in seeing anyone else. You'll explain the reason why you're asking is you aren't really seeing anyone and you think you two might have something really good together. If she tells you what you want to hear, you can drop the L-bomb on her. You might find out she's been just as crazy about you the whole time as well.

Speaking of bombs, I'm going to drop one on you: You're already dating her. You just haven't been calling it an "official" "date-date." You might actually be overdue for taking it to the next level. That's not something I normally suggest, but I think you're in a good place with this girl. Keep taking things slow, but don't be afraid to tap the accelerator just a little.

I have plenty of places in mind, but I think I will have a discussion with her about this. She is very busy, and I think she will be especially busy in the next week (finals). I think the details can be talked out when I meet her on Wednesday, if she says yes. I think it will most likely happen on a weekend, but it won't be this weekend, as she is going back to her home city (we live in different cities but attend the same university) for Thanksgiving break before coming back for the last week of classes before finals.



I think this will be the only date I will be able to invite her to for now, since she will go home to her home city over Christmas break. I would only see her again after the break to resume this "official" dating relationship. However, we have each other's phone numbers, so we can still talk to each other over the break!

Yes, I mentioned that we live in different cities, but in the same state no less. Now I am starting to really think about how this will affect my chances with this girl. But I am staying optimistic.



I've read your posts about this very thing. In fact, my friends in my Chemistry class tease me about this when I tell them that I will be seeing this girl.

Taking it slow but steady is the approach that I have been taking. However, I didn't mention in the original post that she told me the last time I met up with her that she got dumped by somebody (she's fine, and she's so happy with herself that a relationship is not required for her happiness). And she was dating this guy after I inadvertently caused her to break up with her previous boyfriend (it's a long story, and I know about it because she thought it was a funny story to share with me, and she was quite happy without that person). I don't know too much about either of these guys, but I'm guessing that they're from her home city. So now I feel that I must move quickly or lose her, which is why I want to ask her out to dinner this Wednesday.

I wish a guy adored me like that.

This sounds like classic college stuff.

I think, if you treat the girl like a person, that you will go far with her.

Don't be shy. Ask her out for lunch or something.

NEVER, EVER appear desperate, or tell her you love her. She will split from you so fast that you won't even see her dust as she splits.

Keep the conversation focused upon the things you've been talking about recently.

you're over analyzing. She already likes you somehow.

Use the word date so your intentions are crystal clear.

So, unfortunately, I was not able to meet up with her today, though I did see her and talk to her for a little bit about her current situation, which was that her friend has a cat who is in a coma, so she had to leave for home earlier than originally planned. She sent me an e-mail about it earlier.

Anyway, I e-mailed her back, telling her that if I was going to meet with her today, I wanted to tell her some things, but then added that it may have to happen the next time.

This wasn't the first time she changed plans on me. Then again, she has quite a busy life.

So, my current attitude about this is down, but not out. I hope I will be able to meet her and ask her about the possibility of going out for dinner next week. I remain optimistic, despite having my plans frustrated.

Well, I know that she is quite a wonderful friend to have, that's for sure!

However, I still have a worry: I know she told me she got dumped by somebody the last time I met up her (again, she's fine), but if I am not able to act fast enough, somebody else might take her. I wanted to ask her out to dinner in person, because that would be more powerful. Not that I think asking her over the phone is absolutely verboten (though I am told that relationships don't start over the phone by a friend of hers, who was actually the first one to know that I like her; he got it out of me ), which is something I could do over Thanksgiving break, but she gets to see my face and feel my aura as I do it in person, thus making it have more of an impact.

I know she does: she tells me that she misses me as well whenever we don't see each other in a while. I know she enjoys my company and she told me she enjoys listening to me (people often tell me I have a wonderful voice).


This is exactly what my therapist told me. However, here I am having people tell me that I shouldn't. I can understand where they're coming from (better to go slow and build up the chemistry between us), but the realm of dating is not easy to understand.

Your intentions should be clear to the girl regardless of what you explicitly say. The advice not to use the word date is not related to being unclear; it's more about the pressure that verbally saying "date" creates in her mind (she should realize your intentions even if the word date is not used). If you don't think she will understand your intentions unless you use the word date, you need to work on sending nonverbal signals or just be explicit and use the word date. Or you could say, "want to go out with me on Thursday?" which is probably better.

Exactly. In my way of thinking, calling it a date might misrepresent your intentions. In the olden days when going out on a date wasn't such a big deal, and I'm talking, like, 1950s affluent/middle-class suburbia, a date really was just a date. "Normal" dating for a lot of people carries with it completely different expectations. That's why a lot of people, myself included, will advise against that. The first dates, in my opinion, need to look as little like "date-dates" as possible. It's not a date…you're just "meeting up @…"

And like I've said before, you're already dating--the two of you just haven't admitted it yet. You know your situation better than we do, so use your own best judgment.

Here is how I think I will broach the idea to her. I will ask her before the end of our meeting if we ever meet again. I have been rehearsing this myself. It will go something like this:

"Hey, what do you think about the idea of us going out to dinner together?"

This will be unprecedented of me. There is a possibility that she will ask if I am proposing a date. Would it be wise to say that indeed I am? If she asks why, I already know my reasons: because I feel that we both have a lot in common, we are both open-minded individuals, and I just really like her and I just think we could spend more time together.

My latest interaction with her was sending her a text message yesterday telling her happy Thanksgiving and that I was thankful for having her as a friend. She replied saying she wished the same, hoped I had a lot of delicious food, and that she was glad that we were friends too.

DISCLAIMER: Please do not take this advice as me attacking you. I have certainly made the same mistakes as you in the past which is why I am telling you these things:



First of all, you should ask her to dinner via text. I don't know where you get this idea that you have to ask someone to dinner in person. That's ridiculous and totally wrong.


Don't ask her what she thinks of the idea of dinner. This is exactly what you say:

"Hey there Let's grab dinner on thursday at [name of restaurant]. It's the absolute best." And don't pick something expensive.

She won't ask why. But based on what you're thinking you're going to say, I can see that you're not thinking about this in the right way. In the rare chance that she would actually say "why" the answer to "why" should be "because..." or maybe "why not" (but only if you say this in a playful, non questioning way [as in "why is a ridiculous question to ask] which I don't know if you're going to be able to do so best to stick with something that cannot be possibly interpreted as a logical response) as giving her a list of logical reasons is pointless.

If you stop overthinking things, everything will go much better.

Also, if you like her, why are you sending her mixed signals about her being a "friend" via text? If you have a valid reason, or if this is part of some strategy, please let me know. Otherwise I can only assume you're unnecessarily reinforcing to her that she's a friend, not a romantic interest.

if you guys do go to dinner, you need to make sure there's physical contact in a non-friend like way. Hand holding when you go on a walk after the meal, etc. I would also recommend you kiss her long before it is time to say goodbye.

Truthfully, some people would rather be asked out for dinner in person, rather than via text.

I might be naïve about internet protocol when it comes to dating--so maybe my advice wouldn't apply.

But...I have a feeling she would really like it if you asked her in person.

That's just my feeling....it's not to be taken as gospel.

I do not think you are attacking me. If I am seeking advice, I must listen. I am serious about this, as I don't want to screw up.


I was told (by her friend, who is male) that relationships don't start over the phone. Also, I just think it would be more powerful to do it in person.


My honest assessment of our relationship is that of good friends, even though I think of her more than that. When I meet her next time, I will want to make it clear that I think of her more than a friend (after all, I talk about her to others that way). I want to take this step by step. I'm just thankful to have any kind of relationship with her.


Those are things I would love to do, but wouldn't that be too soon; wouldn't that be coming off too strong for a first date-date? After all, my life coach, when he started dating his wife before they got married, he told me that they didn't kiss until six months within the relationship. We have hugged before, and that I will do.

That's why you use the phone to set up the dinner. You're not going to eat dinner with her over the phone and text each other pictures of your food, lol. Dinner is the in-person part.


Why does it need to be powerful? What does that even mean? Answer this: If you got a text tomorrow afternoon from her asking you out to dinner would you say no to her because she didn't ask you in person? I'm guessing your answer is no. So if she likes you why would she behave differently?



well that's tricky because good friends isn't a step before boyfriend/girlfriend. It's a totally different relationship. Are you sure she feels like you guys are just friends?




No. If she tried to kiss you would you think she was coming off too strong for a first date and tell her to stop or would you kiss back? If it's too soon for her, she won't kiss you back. If that happens, you can try to kiss her again on the next date you guys go on. I've never heard of a guy scaring a girl off (who would have otherwise been open to dating them) because of trying to kiss too soon. If you try to kiss her and she doesn't want to kiss back but she still is open to going on another date, that's good because there's no way she won't know your intentions at that point.



Six months? Wow. Although that doesn't mean they couldn't have kissed like six months sooner if one of them initiated it. By the way, I hug plenty of people I'm friends with (or even people I am meeting for the first time. Is the hugging with her different from friend hugging?

All of Alex' advice above seems pretty spot on to me.

6 months for a first kiss sounds like an eternity to me. I suppose it depends on the culture of the people where you're from. If that's normal and expected, ok, then so be it.. but a kiss on a first date doesn't seem odd to me at ALL. In fact, if there's any chemistry at all, it's pretty well expected IMO.