Toxic Masculinty

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I'd give you a counter-example. My wife talked a lot of how she liked sex, but once she understood that I didn't like a lot of sex, she stopped with that as she no longer had to fake interest. You cannot be sure that the women that told you they liked sex did this only because they liked you and that they expected that you required sex from them. Your experiences are simply second-hand anecdotes without any value.

Oh, absolutely. Women talk the talk about sex all the f*****g time. Seriously, most women won't shut up about it, but that's only because they know that's what men want to hear. When it's time to stop talking about it and actually start doing it though... well, that's when the problems start.

This is not an adaptive behavior in humans. The reason why it isn't is because in the stone age children with single parents were more likely to die, and that wasted reproductive resources for the woman.



This only works if there are plenty of resources. When resources get scarce, the first babies that will die are those that have no daddy, because the group only helps the single mother when they have already provided for their own needs.



The most effective way for a woman in the stone age to maximize her reproductive success was to pair up with a man. Which is why women still prefer this in the "educated West".



The incidence of cuckoldry has been greatly exaggerated.

Yes, but that only happens IF the woman cannot secure commitment from the higher-status she cheats with. Studies show that during ovulation, women tended to flirt more with other men but ONLY IF their partner was conventionally unattractive. If their partner was conventionally attractive, then they wouldn't do it.

Remember, boyos: don't even put your name on the birth certificate before you know for sure the kid is yours.

I see walls of text, this thread is getting hairy.

I pointed out that i usually sleep with lesbian womem specifically, to demonstrate that i don't go out of my way to make women find me attractive. Many straight women do find me attractive though, and more than a handful have asked me out. I think if you look at the sort of men that many girls have crushes on, from animes and movies, they have some rather feminine qualities.

i'm sure there are many women who want only very masculine guys. In my experience, though i'm sure there are many exceptions, these are often the more traditional amd boring women anyway.

Agreed. Incidentally, I'm making garlic butter popcorn (natural stovetop, not the carcinogenic microwave version). I can make extra if you're interested. Goes nicely with heated WP debates.

Agreed. But I think a wider net enhances the chances you have at finding compatible people. Something else I think is demoralizing is this idea that some have that it has to be a universal success. I favor redefining success, which you likely know from reading other posts of mine. Did I smile at a woman today and she smiled back? Yes? Then I succeeded. We don't have to call it a date if you don't want to. But did we get together over lunch while you told me more about your passion for underwater basket weaving? Yes? Then I succeeded. It's more about that an interaction occurred, not achieving specific objectives of interactions (or placing expectations that they'll be achieved), that I call it good. Even rejection is its own success since one has to make a request to be rejected in the first place. Regardless, every interaction brings you closer to finding someone you're compatible with. Law of Large Numbers.

Of course, it all depends on what your specific goals really are. You have a different view of dating than I do, but we'll probably both agree that a typical NT approach to dating isn't the best course for many of us.

Absolutely. That probably applies both to if you prefer to find partners among friends or among those you don't know as a wider net means you meet more people of both sorts.



Agreed. I always see a girl that looks a little more than usual in my direction as a success. I don't particularly value verbal interaction or sex, rather I'm more content with the "little things".

Relax, I'm immune to it and above it. I don't hang out with feminists and I don't feel I owe them anything.

Even if I were trying to get dates, which I'm kinda prevented from doing by law , and even if I knowingly asked a feminist out for a date, I'd probably ask her to share her opinion on Judith Butler or some such--or how she feels about Debbie Blabbermouth---oops, I meant Wasserman--Schultz coming out and saying it's ok to abort 7 lb. babies. My approach is that it's not my opinion that matters here. If I'm interested in someone, I'm going to shut my mouth and listen to whatever it is she has to say. It's as simple as that. Doesn't matter that I happen to be a conservative Evangelical Christian who somewhat idealizes the time when the place of women was at home. Where my opinion is going to be important is going to be in terms of is this someone I want to be with long-term. In all likelihood it won't work out. If there's some good chemistry there, I'm not opposed to it. I may not support her views, but I don't think that makes her a bad person. It's possible to disagree and still get along. But I will admit I do have attitudes towards relationships and marriage in which some radical feminist ideas would find themselves at an impasse. I insist on wielding veto power in an otherwise 50/50 relationship. If I don't have the option of saying "I believe this is wrong and I simply won't allow it to happen in my home," I can't be married to that person. I simply won't have it any other way.

That said, however, in actual practice my SO is an extremely bright person and I defer to her judgment more often than not. It's rare for me to put my foot down on something. My wife was well aware of my attitude long before marriage talk was even on the table and somehow she insisted on hunting me down after I broke up with her…TWICE. I like to think if she had a problem with that, she'd have given me some ultimatum a long time ago. The one or two times I've pulled the husband card in 9 years of marriage, it stopped catastrophically bad situations dead in their tracks. If I have anything to feel guilty for, I can live with that. Feminist rhetoric doesn't bother or affect me in the least.

Being sexually attracted to someone else doesn't mean you actually *like* them or want to be with them long term and in some cases they may not have the means to actually play the role of a father in the child's life.

Also, being "high status" does not automatically equate to sexually attractive nor does it equate to being able to provide financially! Suppose she finds a man who has the means to be a provider but is otherwise unattractive sexually so she trades sex for support and has an affair with a bad boy who turns her on but isn't pleasant to be around except for the sex.

And what studies are these that you are citing? Again, I've encountered women who flirt with men they're NOT attracted to when they're involved with an attractive man. Flirting =/= sexual interest. It is a way for a woman to stroke her ego and feel desirable to other men that are not her partner nor does she necessarily wanna sleep with.

What makes you think that these women *liked* me in that way? A lot of the real life examples I'm giving come from women who had no sexual interest in me nor did I have any sexual attraction to them. One woman was borderline and had a severe drinking problem(intoxication made her incredibly horny and quite sexually aggressive in fact) and was already dating(and sleeping with)someone else. At the time I was in a relationship with another woman and she admitted to me that men who are involved with someone else are more appealing than single men....but iDigress.

As for your wife, she is only ONE person. You yourself are giving an anecdote about the particular woman that you married but this does not prove anything about women in general.

More red herrings, you know damn well what I meant by "high-status", you know it's more than just being rich.

Also, just because women like to act dumb, doesn't mean they actually are. They know damn well the effect their flirts have and the message they send, and generally speaking, they will NOT flirt with a man unless they're genuinely attracted him, or they want to trick him into thinking they are so they can get something from him.

As for the study, it's an old one. I can't find it right now, but I'll keep an eye for it. Still, considering your last cited study was completely irrelevant to the topic at hand and didn't help you prove your point in any way, the ball is still in your quarter.

As opposed to the women you SUPPOSEDLY talked to who were all appointed emissaries speaking on behalf of all womankind. And who all also suffered from a mental condition that prevented them from ever lying, even in situations where it would benefit them to do so.

One thing that is definitely toxic is the current culture of shaming men for wanting to be masculine. Getting closer to my masculine side has helped me through a depression and helped me stabilize my mind. We shouldn't forget who we are biologically.

We developed masculinity over hundreds of thousands of years for a reason, and 100 years of the powder puff life in specific areas ain't going to take that away.