DataSage’s Alpha Male Guide to Meeting Women (JULY UPDATE!!)

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Me, adult? HA!



I still haven't gotten around to printing it, and sure, there is some stuff that is iffy. But, it had observations that I found so damned helpful - things explained in a sensible way that even I could understand. Not just - "be more social".

La Petit Prince--

I'm sorry that my hissy fit hit you wrong. It's just that I see some good looking young men here who if they would play to their strengths and not worry about being like the so-called "alpha" NT males or some illusion they have stuck in their mind about what it takes to start a relationship, wouldn't have the problem of attracting a relationship.

I tried to own my pissy mood, but I wasn't successful at either communicating in a meaningful way or not being a jerk. You and I agree on most things, and it was unfortunate I let an innocuous comment of yours set me off when we really are in sync on this issue.

I just wish people who do have problems and seem bitter and weird about relationships would first quit looking for them in NT hot spots where all they are going to run into is the NT social games we either cannot play or don't see why we should play them. We may learn some rules and behavior, but in the end, we aren't going to play well, and we will probably get stuck in a situation with someone who really isn't suitable for us.

It seems guys always seem to see women in one way, and talk as if all women act the same way, and it then hits me that these guys are going after the same type of woman, and not seeing the rest of the potential partners because they are either in the wrong place, or too scared to venture out and meet people, or have some unattainable fantasy of what an intimate relationship is "supposed" to be like, and are too rigid to change it.

While you represent a minority of young men on this site who don't want to be anything other than who they are, there seems to be a lot of guys who want to be "alpha males" with the privileges they think that entails. Meanwhile, most AS women don't want to be "alpha females" because that's a limiting role, and a demeaning one at that.

And that's where I fall. I tried playing the game. It doesn't work because it means denying my intelligence, and the common sense that I was somehow blessed with. I don't suffer fools easily. I am abrupt, masculine sometimes, and not at all afraid of showing my smarts, not because I want to show off, but because it takes too much work to hide it. I hated it the two times men chased me, thinking it was somehow romantic, and their masculine prerogative to do so. That was twenty years ago.

And as for women not suffering loneliness and horniness like men, well, my stints in the mental institution for attempted suicide because I just couldn't deal with it any more tells another story, and there are similar stories among the younger women. I carry scars from it. And I still have my moments of desolation, and wondering if anyone is ever going to just touch me, not even sleep with me--just touch me. While I am sensitve to touch, I still crave it, and I don't think I'll ever find someone who will be patient enough until I desensitize in the early stages of a relationship. Girlfriends want cuddles right away, and boyfriends usually want sexual activity, and both scare me right now, because I know what would happen the moment a potential partner touched me.

And I hate being so sensitive and jumpy and feeling so creepy crawly about it.

You're a young man, and men can get away with social cluelessness to a point, but women are usually considered the caretakers of the relationship. You may not think there's anyone for you, and I feel the same way about myself, but you still have a chance. At my age, I've lost out on everything and I'm never going to get it back. What have I got to look forward to? There are more women than men, and not enough of them are gay, and the men can play the field while the women have to live up to some ideal or decide to do without.

ANd I just dumped again. Gads. I need to do something about this.

Anyway, Le Petit Prince, give yourself a break. You already communicate better in words than most guys. Play to your strengths.

Take care, Jaye.

I'm in an awkward situation because I generally need to be more outgoing with women, but in this instance I'm worried about coming across as creepy and abusive, while at the same time, I'm afraid I might have snubbed a girl who I'm actually interested in and who I think is interested in me.

I'm an ESL tutor at the college where I go to graduate school. I help students in the tutoring lab and after each tutoring session I fill out a form evaluating what we have done, what progress they have made and what they still need to work on, so I have a little bit of authority. And that means I have to be careful.

About a month ago, while helping a student I'd already seen around ten or fifteen times this semester, she started pressing her leg against mine under the table. She kept her thigh pressed hard against mine for twenty minutes or so, and even while I kept talking about her writing, I let her do it. I didn't move my leg away. Eventually my leg started shaking because I was nervous, and then she moved hers away. After everyone else had left, at the end of the day, she asked me if I had a girlfriend, and I said I didn't. Then she asked if I was married and I said I was not. This is where I really blew it. It was a Friday, and she told me about how she would be watching movies alone in her dorm room all night. Then she asked me what I was doing that night. First I said I didn't have any plans, but when she told me that people shouldn't be home alone on Friday night, instead of taking that as an invitation, I felt slighted, like she was judging me, even though she wasn't. So I told her I was going to a poetry reading for school (which was true - I'm studying English). I told her that just because I was embarrassed about her thinking I had nothing to do, when I should have tried hinting to her that I had time to get together with her. It gets even worse. She is from Vietnam and she has an accent, and earlier she had told me people make fun of her pronunciation. At the time, I told her her pronunciation was fine. But at the end of the day, as she was walking out the door, she told me I should take a girl to the cinema some time. She used that word - "cinema," and I repeated it back to her almost as a question, like "Cinema?" and then I laughed. I didn't mean to laugh at how she talked but that's really what I was doing. I was just so nervous and even though I felt flattered by her flirting with me I responded by insulting her. Then she walked out the door.

The next Tuesday, I talked about this on the phone with my psychiatrist. My psychiatrist has helped me a lot by having me stop eating gluten and casein, and by having me make some other dietary changes. Without this help I don't think I would even be able to make it through grad school, because it has helped me think so much more clearly, so I usually listen to whatever he says. He said that because of my position of authority I should not ask the girl out. All I can do is be friendly towards her and make sure she knows I like being around her. He suggested that the next time I see her, I ask her how she liked the movies she watched in her dorm room.

She came into the tutoring lab the next day, but I was too nervous to ask about the movies. However, as we went over her paper, she put her knee against my thigh and held it there for awhile, and she kept sliding her hand across the table so it brushed against my hand. Then, in what seemed to me like kind of an immature, high school type of move, she handed me a note that said something along the lines of, "I want to go to a movie with you sometime. Can you give me your telephone number?" I was overjoyed by this, so I wrote down my number, gave her a big smile and said I would love to go. But then, in another mistake, I had her fill out the form that students are usually required to fill out before they leave the lab, even though ignoring the form would not get her in any trouble - it would only result in me not getting credit for having helped her, which really wouldn't have been a big deal in the grand scheme of things.

She was getting ready to leave, and I was about to leave too, but when she asked if I was leaving I just mumbled something and turned away from her. I was nervous because I didn't know if she wanted me to walk with her through the hall, and what her teacher, my friend and colleague, might think if he saw that.

She never called, and when she came into the lab the next Friday her teacher was there, so he helped her and then she started writing an essay for class. At that point I didn't think it would be appropriate for me to interrupt her, but before I left I had to get a binder from the table where she was working. When I picked it up I looked at her, she looked at me, and we said hello to each other, but she quickly got back to work, and I don't even know if that was the right thing for me to do because in that instance I really was distracting her from her work. The week after that - last week - she came in on Thursday and I helped her with her work, but she didn't flirt with me the way she had before.

I'm afraid I've been offstandish and rude to her, but I'm in a position of authority over her so I can't be the one who makes a move. All I can do is be friendly and smile and let her know I like being around her. When every interaction between us begins with her asking, "Can you go over my essay?" or "Can you help me with grammar?" I can't say something like, "So, you never called." And every conversation I start with her begins with me asking if she understands her assignment, and if she has any questions about it.

I could ask her how her weekend was. There wouldn't be any harm in that. I have also been keeping an eye out for her outside of the tutoring lab but I haven't seen her anywhere else. I let her make physical contact with me. I gave her my number and said I'd like to go out with her. But I worry about taking the lead on this because I don't want to appear to be abusing my authority. I don't have as much authority as a teacher. I don't give grades. I only make notes about what she's doing well and what she can improve on, but I still can't be seen as taking advantage of a student.

I'm 28 years old and have never had a girlfriend (except for two disatrous weeks in the eighth grade, but that's another story). I rarely get a chance like this. I can't remember a time when I girl asked me out. Maybe I should forget about what my colleagues think. Maybe it doesn't matter if they think I'm abusing my authority, since the student has been making all the moves so far.

Does anyone have any suggestions? I'm especially interested in what any teachers or anyone in the academic community has to say about this.

Charles, she obviously is interested in you, you don't seem to be part of the school staff, and shes tried asking you out. I think you should just get her phone number, ask her what she's doing during the week or on the weekend. It doesn't seem that inappropriate to ask her stuff while your helping her out, you are helping her, your just making some 'small talk' Good luck and in seems like it shouldnt be any problem for you to go on some sort of date with her, just take the initiative next time.

You're probably right, Dime_jaguar. My phychiatrist was probably just being cautious. But, technically, I am on the school staff.

I have one request.
It's i think the biggest problem i have.

Please write a guide on how to small-talk (properly)
I never have any inspiration on what to talk about with someone (i'm not just referring to girls, also friends, colleagues, even my brother and sister)
My colleagues at work say i'm extremely silent and i want to counter this a bit, but i have no idea what to talk about.
When i question other people about this, they always answer the same thing: 'Talk about anything'.
That's just WAY too vague for me.

Yeah man, I could help you out in due time--there isn't a lot to it. Unfortunately, I'm rather busy at the moment, but I'll make sure to write a little something up here in this thread ASAP.

Hope everyone here is doing well, I'm very limited on leisure time because I am approaching the end of my college career, and the work is beginning to pile up. When summer rolls around and I'm out of school (about two weeks) I should be able to get back into my writings on the subject.

Okay, thanks

The girl who I mentioned before, who I tutor, and who I thought was interested in me, came into the tutoring lab last week. After we went over her work, I asked her about her spring break. Without me mentioning anything about her calling me, or about getting together with her, she told me she hadn't called me yet because she was worried that it would make me uncomfortable, and also because she didn't have a car. I told her I would be perfectly comfortable with it, and that I had a car, so there should be nothing to prevent us from going out sometime. She said she would call me over the weekend, but then she asked if I wanted to go get some lunch with her. It was around 12:30 and I had to be at school until 3:00 so I said I could not go to lunch right then (Now I know I should have asked her if she wanted to do something at 3:00).

She didn't call over the weekend. When she came into the lab yesterday, Thursday, I mentioned how she had never called me. She said she was busy with final exams and promised to call me another time. She also said that was her last day in lab. Today, Friday, was the last day for the tutoring lab to be open this year, and this is my last year at school. On Thursday she wanted help with an essay about how much she missed Vietnam, and I can only assume that, being an exchange student, she will be going back there soon now that it is the end of the school year. I think that's why (as far as I can tell) she has been losing interest in me - we are running out of time to see each other so now she doesn't think I am worth pursuing. Now I don't know if I'll ever see her again. Tonight I sent her an email at her school email address. I could do that because to know her school email address I only needed to know her name. I have tried calling her through the school operator but the school doesn't give students' phone numbers to people who live off campus. I don't know if she will get my email because most students do not use the school email account.

I know her teacher because, like me, he is a grad student in English. But I can't go up to him and say, "I'd like you to help me date your student, who you've been sending to me to get help with the work you assign her." I don't think he'd be inclined to help me get in touch with her, even if he could. Likewise, I don't want to lurk outside of his classroom during class so I can find her when she leaves. I don't think that kind of behavior would be very attractive.

I'm afraid I've totally dropped the ball on this one. I might tell her teacher about this situation. He would just laugh at it but I'd still like to get his opinion. Maybe he knows whether she is going back to Vietnam this summer, but he wouldn't know her phone number or anything like that.

I don't know how many more chances like this I'll get in my life. This fell right into my lap and still it looks like I've bungled it. I know I have to change my behavior and get more aggressive. I guess I should stop worrying about what people think, like what her teacher thinks. Also, while on Thursday I could bring myself to mention to her that she hadn't called me, I did not ask her out because I was worried about what the other graduate students, two of who were sitting right behind me, would think. I know they would have laughed at me, but I really shouldn't care about that. I can think about that for next time, if there ever is a next time.

The email I sent to the student I tutored was returned to my earthlink account. I also tried sending it to her from my school account but that was returned too. I have looked at the class schedule so I know when she is in class and where the class is. I am worried that it would be inappropriate to stand outside the classroom and wait for her to get out of class. To get her phone number, I could try calling the school operator from a phone on campus instead of from my apartment, because they might give the number to someone calling from campus since they would know I was also a student (even though I'm a grad student and she's an undergrad - but that's not that important).

She has my number. I told her I'd like to go out with her. I let her touch me (Just a couple days ago she was brushing her hand against mine on the table at the tutoring center), and I told her twice that I have been waiting for her to call.

But there is one more thing. Before all this started, she was writing a paper about different kinds of friends. She wrote that "school friends" and "work friends" are more important than "best friends" because they can help people learn what they need to know for school and work. Maybe I'm just one of her "school friends" and she's been stringing me along so I'll spend more time and effort helping her than helping other students (I do.). I have even stayed late with her for over an hour a few times.

I don't know what to think. She has my number and she can call me whenever she wants. She knows I want her to.

It really sounds to me like she just doesn't want you to be mad at her and start suggesting bad "improvements." Unless she's a senior or plans to transfer, I don't see why she wouldn't start the relationship now and continue it next fall (she might do something in Vietnam, but she'll have to break that when she returns).

You ARE in power over her, even though you AREn't trying to use that against her, if she's interested in you and doesn't plan ahead she'll go out with you tomorrow. If she does plan ahead and thinks she'll need help with English next year, she'll be in a quandary, since she can't expect you to stay interested in her over summer break (unless she knows you are NT and NTs get fixations...) and might think you'll get mad at her for using you like that.

If she's really interested in you, she should make a move tomorrow (especially if you aren't in the English help center next year or tell her you aren't going to be).

An Alpha male can only exist within a group of males you cannot act like an Alpha male if you are not in the presence of other men. How can you be the "lead male" if there are no other males around?

Therefore it is my view that you might aswell drop the alpha act when you are alone with her. Though you would probably be well advised to have or at least appear to have high self esteem.

I tend to agree with the way you have characterised non-autistic women. Non-autistic women are generally considered by most people to be the most dangerous people in the universe. That doesn't mean they're worth having sex with.

What I think DataSage is saying is that since the majority of men out there aren't being true to themselves when they meet women (he dryly mentions 90% of them), they can't be the "lead males," as you call them, because most of the males are already like them; there's no distinction. Being true to yourself in ANY relationship is the way to go, and if you do that, you're already the "lead male" because you're more likely to have a satisfying relationship, be it a regular or romantic one.

I don't disagree. Although in the dating game I believe an alpha male is just another term for a bastard. Hence the saying "Women love a bastard". The basic idea as I understand it is to act like a dickhead and throw pointless hissy fits over nothing, which apparently some Women find attractive (in some cases I've known promiscuous men [freinds of mine] to do this regularly often the girl involved seems half way aware it was all an act but went along with it anyway although I think nobody was aware how embaressing it was for me as the audience for their BS acting).

Doesn't really seem worth the hassle to me! Plus I would feel self concious throwing a tantrum as a full grown man.

I seem to have missed that. I've never heard this definition before.