Why is "Ghosting" Socially Acceptable?
09 Jul 2015, 2:15 pm
AngelRho wrote:
There's no "right way." I just think if people matter at all, you want what's best for everyone, even someone you're breaking up with. Breakups are unfortunate, but necessary. Ripping it off like a Band-Aid isn't a good way to end when what a person really needs is just a way to slow the bleeding. If you've been seriously close for a very long time, I think it's only right to let the other person know your intentions up front--that this is the last time we're getting together--and formulate an appropriate response for the aftermath. Maybe she needs you to just walk away. Maybe she just needs one more good day. But regardless how it's done, over means OVER, and letting someone hang on a day or more later isn't going to start their healing process any faster.
The point basically is that you cannot suddenly tell someone that you've had a long-term serious relationship with that "it's over". Then you have made it all wrong, and no matter how you do it you will still seriously hurt that person. That's why I wrote that these things needs to "die" slowly. You cannot suddenly claim that "it's over", you need to motivate this by a longer time of the two of you not getting along so well, and then the other person will suspect in advance that maybe the best thing is a break-up, and then you have reached a mutual agreement that maybe it is for better that you don't see each others so much, and then finally go different ways completely. That's also the route that can lead to a possible friendship once you have gotten over it. At least for me, any other way would lead to a long period of being hurt / unable to get over her, or me being hateful towards her.
AngelRho
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09 Jul 2015, 5:45 pm
rdos wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
There's no "right way." I just think if people matter at all, you want what's best for everyone, even someone you're breaking up with. Breakups are unfortunate, but necessary. Ripping it off like a Band-Aid isn't a good way to end when what a person really needs is just a way to slow the bleeding. If you've been seriously close for a very long time, I think it's only right to let the other person know your intentions up front--that this is the last time we're getting together--and formulate an appropriate response for the aftermath. Maybe she needs you to just walk away. Maybe she just needs one more good day. But regardless how it's done, over means OVER, and letting someone hang on a day or more later isn't going to start their healing process any faster.
The point basically is that you cannot suddenly tell someone that you've had a long-term serious relationship with that "it's over". Then you have made it all wrong, and no matter how you do it you will still seriously hurt that person. That's why I wrote that these things needs to "die" slowly. You cannot suddenly claim that "it's over", you need to motivate this by a longer time of the two of you not getting along so well, and then the other person will suspect in advance that maybe the best thing is a break-up, and then you have reached a mutual agreement that maybe it is for better that you don't see each others so much, and then finally go different ways completely. That's also the route that can lead to a possible friendship once you have gotten over it. At least for me, any other way would lead to a long period of being hurt / unable to get over her, or me being hateful towards her.
That just sounds manipulative to me.
Even if it isn't manipulative, it wastes time. What if the whole point of leaving someone is she's interested in seeing someone else? Now I don't just have a girl I'm crazy in love with and think things are going great and moving forward. Now I have to deal with the fact she's cheating on me. Sure, breaking up sucks no matter how you do it. But if I'm going to be hurt anyway, let's just get this over with so we can BOTH move on. She's already got a new bf waiting in the wings, anyway. Perhaps there's someone right around the corner who has been interested in me the whole time and I miss my chance by getting strung along. All she has to tell me is "Hey, I need to talk to you about something. Will you meet me at the park tomorrow morning?"
That's what I would want. And if I were leaving a girl for any reason, that's normally how I'd handle it on my end if the situation were reversed.
Actually…come to think of it, my favorite breakups were the ones when I could tell what she was about to say. I'd say, "Hey, you know…when I look in your eyes, when I hold you, it's pretty obvious something is missing. Are you happy with me? No, be honest, it's ok… Because I saw how you looked at that guy and I know you've been talking. And I really feel maybe I'm going in another direction, too. So let's just turn the page and start a new chapter in our lives. Don't you agree we'll be happier apart?" Cheesy, cliche, I know, but effective.
And a certain type of girl will just go insane over that kind of line, as in she can't stand to be dumped even though she was going to dump me anyway. But, hey, once I walk away, it's no longer my problem!
10 Jul 2015, 4:53 pm
kraftiekortie wrote:
I don't believe "ghosting" is the right move...in most instances. It's the "punk" way of getting out of a relationship.
With clingy people though, who don't take "no" for an answer, "ghosting" might be the smart thing to do.
With clingy people though, who don't take "no" for an answer, "ghosting" might be the smart thing to do.
I don't consider it ghosting if you break up with them and they don't accept it. You told them, you cut contact with them completely.
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Daughter: NT, no diagnoses. Possibly OCD. Is very private about herself.
10 Jul 2015, 7:15 pm
Honestly I got Tinder back in wednesday and this one girl messaged me who was clearly interested but I stopped replying after a while. Honestly I felt so bad about doing it because it's not because I wasn't interested in her, it's just that iv'e never been on a date before and talking to women scares me. Like I don't really want to ghost anyone but i'm just shy and have bad anxiety.
Loveurself
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11 Jul 2015, 4:11 am
I think the people who do that are soulless creatures from the depths of hell. They are selfish, lack empathy, and are possible sociopaths. It's cruel. How can someone date a person and then act like they don't know them. They are NOT worth the time. Those are the same people that end up abandoning their families (spouse and children), after saying "I do." It's disgusting!
Being shy is another story. I'm talking about the people who date someone for months or longer and then disappear. Better now than later. They are just showing who they truly are. Even if the other person is so called clingy, it's just a matter of proper communication. Most people who are labeled needy or clingy, are neither. They are just dating loosers, who are self absorbed and don't know how to be in a relationship with anyone but themselves.
11 Jul 2015, 5:51 am
AngelRho wrote:
Even if it isn't manipulative, it wastes time.
No, people that do breakups regularly for no other reason than that they want to fool around with somebody else and cannot keep a commitment are wasting MY time. They should get the "I hate your guts" treatment, and then I would never ever talk to them again. Sadly, when we are still are in love with an as*hole like that, chances are that will make us believe they will change their mind eventually, and then we might cling to that hope for years.
AngelRho wrote:
What if the whole point of leaving someone is she's interested in seeing someone else? Now I don't just have a girl I'm crazy in love with and think things are going great and moving forward. Now I have to deal with the fact she's cheating on me. Sure, breaking up sucks no matter how you do it. But if I'm going to be hurt anyway, let's just get this over with so we can BOTH move on. She's already got a new bf waiting in the wings, anyway. Perhaps there's someone right around the corner who has been interested in me the whole time and I miss my chance by getting strung along. All she has to tell me is "Hey, I need to talk to you about something. Will you meet me at the park tomorrow morning?"
Doesn't work on somebody with neurodiverse relationship preferences. That's simply because "breakups" doesn't work the NT way where you can be in love with somebody one day and then move on the next day.
I've already pretty much detailed how it works. First you are in an exclusive phase (this is what you call clingy or needy, and it is not only girls that do this). Breakups in this phase are the most hurtful and can waste a lot of time. After that, people end up in the pre-relationship phase again, and can and do get new crushes that doesn't interfere with the relationship. Thus, if we find somebody new that we are interested in, we can add another relationship and share time between both partners. This is also how a "breakup" can happen. It happens by you spending less time with one of them, and this lessens the attachment to a point where it eventually disappears.
As I outlined a while ago, if somebody breaks up in the exclusive phase, another possible solution (other than "I hate your guts"), is to pretend things that make us leave this phase, like hugging. Then we get back to the pre-relationship phase with a non-exclusive attachment that slowly fades which is a whole lot better than an obsessive, exclusive attachment.
AngelRho wrote:
Actually…come to think of it, my favorite breakups were the ones when I could tell what she was about to say. I'd say, "Hey, you know…when I look in your eyes, when I hold you, it's pretty obvious something is missing. Are you happy with me? No, be honest, it's ok… Because I saw how you looked at that guy and I know you've been talking. And I really feel maybe I'm going in another direction, too. So let's just turn the page and start a new chapter in our lives. Don't you agree we'll be happier apart?" Cheesy, cliche, I know, but effective.
Doesn't work on somebody with neurodiverse relationship preferences.
11 Jul 2015, 5:55 am
Loveurself wrote:
I think the people who do that are soulless creatures from the depths of hell. They are selfish, lack empathy, and are possible sociopaths. It's cruel. How can someone date a person and then act like they don't know them. They are NOT worth the time. Those are the same people that end up abandoning their families (spouse and children), after saying "I do." It's disgusting!
Of course it is the same people that abandon their families. These people feel entitled to behave like as*holes.
11 Jul 2015, 10:26 am
Loveurself wrote:
I think the people who do that are soulless creatures from the depths of hell. They are selfish, lack empathy, and are possible sociopaths. It's cruel. How can someone date a person and then act like they don't know them. They are NOT worth the time. Those are the same people that end up abandoning their families (spouse and children), after saying "I do." It's disgusting!
Being shy is another story. I'm talking about the people who date someone for months or longer and then disappear. Better now than later. They are just showing who they truly are. Even if the other person is so called clingy, it's just a matter of proper communication. Most people who are labeled needy or clingy, are neither. They are just dating loosers, who are self absorbed and don't know how to be in a relationship with anyone but themselves.
Being shy is another story. I'm talking about the people who date someone for months or longer and then disappear. Better now than later. They are just showing who they truly are. Even if the other person is so called clingy, it's just a matter of proper communication. Most people who are labeled needy or clingy, are neither. They are just dating loosers, who are self absorbed and don't know how to be in a relationship with anyone but themselves.
I found out people who do this are also narcissist which is one of the reasons why I wonder if my ex was or if he had any tenancies. I also like to think maybe he did this because he was hurting me and didn't want to anymore so he ignored me or he thought breaking up with me would hurt my feelings so he thought going silent was better. But I always found it strange he contacted me all of a sudden when I had a new boyfriend and then contacted me again around Thanksgiving. I have always found that confusing. Why be silent for months and then talk again and then I never heard from him again. I say he had issues that needed to be sorted out before entering a relationship.
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Son: Diagnosed w/anxiety and ADHD. Also academic delayed and ASD lv 1.
Daughter: NT, no diagnoses. Possibly OCD. Is very private about herself.
11 Jul 2015, 11:56 am
AngelRho wrote:
marshall wrote:
darkphantomx1 wrote:
This is actually easy to answer.
When we don't like someone or we're tired of talking to them, we just stop replying and stop picking up phone calls. This is especially the case if it's with someone we don't know. If we feel like someone likes us and we don't like them back, at first we will be nice but then we become distant.
Why we do this? Because this lets the other person know that we're not interested without getting verbal with them. Yes it can be mean and it hurts sometimes but that's the hard part about dating.
When we don't like someone or we're tired of talking to them, we just stop replying and stop picking up phone calls. This is especially the case if it's with someone we don't know. If we feel like someone likes us and we don't like them back, at first we will be nice but then we become distant.
Why we do this? Because this lets the other person know that we're not interested without getting verbal with them. Yes it can be mean and it hurts sometimes but that's the hard part about dating.
It would still be easier to have a definite answer. In my own experience I don't EVER stalk people. What happens to me is I assume if they don't respond for 4-5 days they're possibly fading me. I send a text telling them if they don't respond I'm going to delete their number, unfriend them on facebook, etc... If they try to apologize it's too late. I probably end it prematurely most of the time, but seriously, screw them.
The problem is you never know. If someone normally responds to a text within an hour and then they don't for several days it could easily mean they suddenly decided to fade. I could mean something else, but I can't deal with not knowing. Better to just dump them than play their games. Now I only remain friends with people who are responsive and respectful. Screw the other 90% of humanity that isn't.
Personally I wouldn't burn any bridges. I've mentioned before I have a former gf who seems to get off on showing up in my life at random times and just mysteriously vanishing soon after. It used to bother me, but now when it happens I just get a chuckle out of it. I have another "friend" who blocked me on Google+, and for the life of me I can't figure out why. But this is a person who has always shown very odd, inconsistent behavior, so I don't let it get to me. I don't try to contact these people. I just leave the door open if they decide to change their mind.
I wouldn't unfriend anyone or delete any numbers. If I've contacted someone and they don't respond after 3 attempts to reach them, I won't try to contact them again. 1 time, they could just be busy and a text/voicemail just got buried. 2 times, could be trying to get rid of me, could be this person was in an auto accident or contracted ebola. 3 times, either it's serious or this person doesn't want to talk to me. Either way, this person is definitely unwilling or unable to get back to me, so I'm leaving her alone.
Depends on the situation, too. If we go out once or twice, I'm not going to push it. If I've known her for years and we're in a serious relationship, I'll go over to her house just to make sure she's ok. That would be an EXCELLENT time if she wants to tell me she's dumping me. Stuff happens--could be something as simple as bad Chinese food or a bad batch of Blue Bell ice cream.
The real trick to all of this is that you really get to know people you think are dating material before you even ask them out. Is this someone who chronically fades or has a history of calling police on supposed "stalkers"? Because the idea that she might be a crazy person who calls the cops just because I stopped by to make sure she's ok doesn't sit well with me. The best way to deal with a chronic fader is to never date her in the first place.
Here's a thought: People who date should have dating resumés complete with references. That might make it easy to sort out everyone who is easily bored, gold-digging, or chronic faders. You call up the last guy and ask why they broke up. If he says, "We never broke up." O rly? "Nope, never happened. Things were great, then she just dropped off the planet. Hey, if you see her, tell her she needs to get her bathroom stuff from my apartment before I put them in the trash."
But I have emotional issues. I admit it. I've burned bridges. Usually it's not mere acquaintances or some one-time date, but people I really thought I liked and shared quite a bit of personal information with. I tend to open up quickly so I tend to get upset when people suddenly disappear. I don't harass people, but I'll send one nasty message just because I want them to know they hurt me. If they're not the type of person who would care at all (i.e. someone arrogant like Jjancee), I won't like them enough in the first place to even try to be friends. I won't try very hard around people who are obviously toxic to me. They'll stay distant acquaintances and I won't be bothered. It's the ones I don't suspect that bother me. Then I don't know what to do. This one girl gave the excuse that she was depressed, but I was extremely depressed and that doesn't make me rude in that way. I don't try to hide my depression by ignoring people. If I don't want to go out I just say I'm not feeling well. It's hard for me to sympathize with people who ignore. I can forgive easily if someone responds and gives a reason, but just ignoring I can't deal with. I'm extremely open and honest, but it makes it so I can't deal with others who aren't the same with me. I'm not judgmental about anything until someone is rude to me.
12 Jul 2015, 6:05 am
"Exes Explain Ghosting, the Ultimate Silent Treatment"
By Valeriya Safronova
June 26, 2015
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/26/fashi ... tment.html
16 Jul 2015, 10:46 am
Loveurself wrote:
I think the people who do that are soulless creatures from the depths of hell. They are selfish, lack empathy, and are possible sociopaths. It's cruel. How can someone date a person and then act like they don't know them. They are NOT worth the time. Those are the same people that end up abandoning their families (spouse and children), after saying "I do." It's disgusting!
Being shy is another story. I'm talking about the people who date someone for months or longer and then disappear. Better now than later. They are just showing who they truly are. Even if the other person is so called clingy, it's just a matter of proper communication. Most people who are labeled needy or clingy, are neither. They are just dating loosers, who are self absorbed and don't know how to be in a relationship with anyone but themselves.
Being shy is another story. I'm talking about the people who date someone for months or longer and then disappear. Better now than later. They are just showing who they truly are. Even if the other person is so called clingy, it's just a matter of proper communication. Most people who are labeled needy or clingy, are neither. They are just dating loosers, who are self absorbed and don't know how to be in a relationship with anyone but themselves.
There is a VAST difference between abandoning a spouse/family and not returning the call/text/email of some guy/girl you barely knew because you only went on five or six dates with.
There's also the little matter that the occasional Aspie (well, several that I've dated) who disagrees with the reason they've been dumped, thus refuses to accept they've been dumped and I end up having to cut off all contact... which they interpret as ghosting, even though it's clearly NOT.
For example, "I just don't think we are compatible any more, so this is the end. I'm sick of arguing about whether we will be going to my beloved monster truck show or your fave gallery every single weekend. With revoir" gets met with "then I will go to only monster truck shows with you! Promise, just gimme another chance". Despite repeated "no, we are done" for weeks. THAT's when I cut the dude off and he goes and claims ghosting.
Also, are you regularly getting ghosted? If yes, it's probably YOU (your behavior). Occasional ghosting happens to everyone (there are jerks in the world), regular ghosting makes you the common denominator.
16 Jul 2015, 2:28 pm
CateJayne wrote:
For example, "I just don't think we are compatible any more, so this is the end. I'm sick of arguing about whether we will be going to my beloved monster truck show or your fave gallery every single weekend. With revoir" gets met with "then I will go to only monster truck shows with you! Promise, just gimme another chance". Despite repeated "no, we are done" for weeks. THAT's when I cut the dude off and he goes and claims ghosting.
That's not ghosting. Ghosting is when you simply stop replying, even after a 100% positive interaction. There is no fight or any indication of disagreement. It usually happens because the person just found someone "better" but doesn't have the guts to tell you. Instead of parting amicably and remaining acquaintances on good terms, they suddenly ignore you and treat you as if you no longer exist. The no warning or indication aspect is very important. It creates anxiety for every budding relationship because the communication can end suddenly at ANY time. You're always worried about when the "ghost" will happen. If a person who normally replies within minutes doesn't reply for a few hours you start to worry you've just been ghosted. You really have no idea when a "ghosting" will happen. It causes extreme paranoia. Things can seem great for a month or two and then suddenly there's no response.
16 Jul 2015, 5:14 pm
marshall wrote:
CateJayne wrote:
For example, "I just don't think we are compatible any more, so this is the end. I'm sick of arguing about whether we will be going to my beloved monster truck show or your fave gallery every single weekend. With revoir" gets met with "then I will go to only monster truck shows with you! Promise, just gimme another chance". Despite repeated "no, we are done" for weeks. THAT's when I cut the dude off and he goes and claims ghosting.
That's not ghosting. Ghosting is when you simply stop replying, even after a 100% positive interaction. There is no fight or any indication of disagreement. It usually happens because the person just found someone "better" but doesn't have the guts to tell you. Instead of parting amicably and remaining acquaintances on good terms, they suddenly ignore you and treat you as if you no longer exist. The no warning or indication aspect is very important. It creates anxiety for every budding relationship because the communication can end suddenly at ANY time. You're always worried about when the "ghost" will happen. If a person who normally replies within minutes doesn't reply for a few hours you start to worry you've just been ghosted. You really have no idea when a "ghosting" will happen. It causes extreme paranoia. Things can seem great for a month or two and then suddenly there's no response.
true it has caused me such anxiety.
