When you couldn't love yourself....
“To say ‘I love you’ one must know first how to say the ‘I.’” – same author responsible for my signature
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"We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission – which is the stage of the darkest periods of human history, the stage of rule by brute force." – Ayn Rand
I just find that those things aren't really enough so the advice sounds pretty trite. I have really severe depression, have had it almost my entire life, and the only thing that really helps is having the right medication and other people that care. If I didn't have those things I would be dead. No amount of "doing things for myself" would make life worthwhile. That's just trite to say those things are enough when they aren't.
I just find that those things aren't really enough so the advice sounds pretty trite. I have really severe depression, have had it almost my entire life, and the only thing that really helps is having the right medication and other people that care. If I didn't have those things I would be dead. No amount of "doing things for myself" would make life worthwhile. That's just trite to say those things are enough when they aren't.
I'm sorry you feel those things wouldn't work for you. I find they work for me (I used to have very severe depression for many years, as well)--so that was why I suggested them. I was only trying to help.
I agree with Marshall.
A lot of opeople say the advice of 'don't worry about looking for love, just focus on your own life and your own things/love yourself first' or whatever other rubbish.
I disagree with it.
Put it this way: It's lonely at the top.
Truth is doing other things with your life is just what I would like to call a 'temporary distraction' to a long term problem.
For example, you might decide instead of moping about being depressed, you take-up a new hobby/interest.
You might enjoy this hobby and this brings you happiness, you might even learn to be extremely skilled at it, but, again, it's just a temporary distraction to a long-term problem - your loneliness.
Taking up a hobby/interest isn't going to cure your loneliness.
In somecases it might, but it REALLY depends on the hobby/interest.
It is a myth that you will instantaneously meet like-minded individuals who share your passion - not every hobby/interest is common, many are obscure/non-mainstream and many don't involve meeting other people at all.
Sure sports and reading are good ones because you can join a club/group but if your hobby is philosophy and you want real-life friendships/relationships (not online) what hope is there for you? The internet might be your only chance (and yes this is coming from someone interested in philosophy).
Anyway, and if you stop focusing on seeking love/friendships but only focus on your goals in life, what good will that bring you?
I could be a six-figure earning psychologist, and independent musician, writer and actor in my free-time, along with being in good physical and mental health (which is basically some of my dreams/goals for life) but will it cure my loneliness? Well no, not at all if I have no friends and no relationship. And this is coming from an extremely ambitious-minded person - your goals/aspirations do not take priority over your personal relationships, rather they are equal - the people in your life are just as important as the things in your life.
Like I said, it's lonely at the top.
At the same time, I also believe you can be happy without a relationship, anf you don't need love to be happy, and I am capable of doing this plenty of the time, but at the same time no, it's impossible to not feel lonely if you are just that - lonely.
I can say with confidence that I am generally happy. But I do still feel loneliness and other negative emotions a lot.
It's hard to have interest in a hobby when you're REALLY depressed. Few people understand how it is to feel like nothing interests you. I think when people exist in isolation for too long their dopamine centers are slowly killed off until they can't experience pleasure anymore. Severe depression is like having your brain slowly killed. It takes all your emotions.
Like I said, it's lonely at the top.
At the same time, I also believe you can be happy without a relationship, anf you don't need love to be happy, and I am capable of doing this plenty of the time, but at the same time no, it's impossible to not feel lonely if you are just that - lonely.
I can say with confidence that I am generally happy. But I do still feel loneliness and other negative emotions a lot.
I think it gets worse as you get older. You start to lose your passion for things and it becomes harder to stay motivated. I just think some people aren't meant to be alone for life. That's the hard truth. If we had less material comforts people would be forced to rely on each other as a practicality. It would be about survival. Now we're so distanced from that we have the bogus idea that individuals should be self-sufficient, both physically and emotionally. It's a lie. Humans didn't evolve this way. The modern way is deviant. Nobody is truly self-sufficient. It's just that deeper connections have been replaced with artificial transactions. People simply go to the store and buy stuff. They have a job where they interact superficially with random people in the public. It isn't natural. There is no real connection.
It's good to see many different perspectives here. I respect you guys' views a lot.
And as I've gone through different experiences from yours, you guys wouldn't be surprised if my thoughts aren't down with you.
In the past, my kind and caring personality caused some acquaintances to misunderstand that I liked them romantically and I happened to hurt them unintentionally, and these feelings of me hurting them gave me suffers and some of them still haunt me at times.
Now that I voluntarily choose to be alone, I feel I have inner peace in most circumstances. Being in a relationship can be a good medicine only to someone who really need it. For me I'd rather need solitude to recover from the bad experience in the past. Knowing what I need in this moment is one way of respecting myself as well.
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"Embrace the glorious mess that you are."
I also appreciate the various perspectives posted thus far and I like the diversity of thought. I honestly believe that "loving yourself" is really watered-down BS like a few of you have mentioned. What it means to me is lazy shorthand for the related concepts of "self-trust" and "self-acceptance": having faith in your abilities and being accountable and cognizant of your flaws. Nobody is perfect, yet the whole "loving yourself" BS makes it seem like you have to delude yourself into an insular, narcissistic self-image. I do not agree with that. Rather, we must work to recognize and work on our shortcomings, realizing that we cannot completely overcome them.
As far as relationships go, my perspective is to find the people that make you happy. It sounds so insipid and I have tried to take the concept pretty literally: when a relationship/friendship is not working out, I leave because I would rather be alone than miserable with someone else.
Also, I also have moderate depression and so I understand not wanting to do anything or knowing that a hobby is just a temporary reprieve from experiencing loneliness. Obviously, I am not everyone and I guess the only advice I would give is accept that your "fun" will be transient. That, and I firmly believe in accepting loneliness rather than fighting it. I remember reading one of Sartre's essays and he basically said that we must accept loneliness because we all live and die as independent entities. Personally, I appreciate solitude and I understand that we all have individual tolerances for how much "alone time" we can tolerate before we get lonely.
I have to agree. I don't thing love=respect. I there are people that I respect, but I don't love. I haven't had people in my life who I've loved, but not respected, but I've seen it happen.
I'm not even sure what "love yourself" even means. Can you have a crush on yourself? I love my son and I'd put myself in harms way to save him. How would that work for myself. "He died saving himself."
I'm not even sure what "love yourself" even means. Can you have a crush on yourself? I love my son and I'd put myself in harms way to save him. How would that work for myself. "He died saving himself."
Yeah, it seems more like a combination of a few ideas (self-acceptance, a willingness to forgive yourself, and some degree of self-awareness) rather than a bland blanket statement. I try not to evaluate it too literally because "love yourself" feels like something people say as a panacea for whatever personal problems someone tells them about, like "Love yourself and everything will turn out fine." It seems trite and, personally, I find it infuriating when people tell me that.
A lot of opeople say the advice of 'don't worry about looking for love, just focus on your own life and your own things/love yourself first' or whatever other rubbish.
I disagree with it.
Put it this way: It's lonely at the top.
Truth is doing other things with your life is just what I would like to call a 'temporary distraction' to a long term problem.
For example, you might decide instead of moping about being depressed, you take-up a new hobby/interest.
You might enjoy this hobby and this brings you happiness, you might even learn to be extremely skilled at it, but, again, it's just a temporary distraction to a long-term problem - your loneliness.
Taking up a hobby/interest isn't going to cure your loneliness.
In somecases it might, but it REALLY depends on the hobby/interest.
It is a myth that you will instantaneously meet like-minded individuals who share your passion - not every hobby/interest is common, many are obscure/non-mainstream and many don't involve meeting other people at all.
Sure sports and reading are good ones because you can join a club/group but if your hobby is philosophy and you want real-life friendships/relationships (not online) what hope is there for you? The internet might be your only chance (and yes this is coming from someone interested in philosophy).
Anyway, and if you stop focusing on seeking love/friendships but only focus on your goals in life, what good will that bring you?
I could be a six-figure earning psychologist, and independent musician, writer and actor in my free-time, along with being in good physical and mental health (which is basically some of my dreams/goals for life) but will it cure my loneliness? Well no, not at all if I have no friends and no relationship. And this is coming from an extremely ambitious-minded person - your goals/aspirations do not take priority over your personal relationships, rather they are equal - the people in your life are just as important as the things in your life.
Like I said, it's lonely at the top.
At the same time, I also believe you can be happy without a relationship, anf you don't need love to be happy, and I am capable of doing this plenty of the time, but at the same time no, it's impossible to not feel lonely if you are just that - lonely.
I can say with confidence that I am generally happy. But I do still feel loneliness and other negative emotions a lot.
I disagree. I see loving oneself as being content or doing the stuff that will help ensure you are pretty content with your lot in life. That's 100% in your control.
Finding a partner? Not entirely in your conrol, so making your contentment contingent upon something that may never ever happen is a recipe for long-term unhappiness.
Also, finding a partner isn't a magic wand that fixes everything -- even if you do luck out and find the man/woman of your dreams who loves you back, that alone will not magically cure your issues with feeling confident/capable, employment, social skills, etc.
It's actually not in everyone's control. It's just a cliche repeated in the individualist/materialist west. Not everyone can be content. Some people will never be content. Life can be awful. There are painful chronic diseases. People are born into awful conditions. Yea. I think control over our own happiness is a delusion. You can choose to take credit, but most likely you didn't cause it. You were just lucky. Good conditions or good brain chemistry. To pat yourself on the back while others suffer is callus and egotistical.
Again, trite saying. Not everyone can magically make themselves happy just because they can't change something. No matter how much you condescend to them with trite statements. I mean, if I put you in a room at 150 degrees to stay forever would you eventually become happy with it when you realize you can never leave? Just lower your expectations.... Does that make you feel better? Ha...

No. But it sure helps to not be completely alone in life. Being completely alone in life and daily activities consisting of shallow superficial interactions is a modern invention.
Last edited by marshall on 02 Nov 2015, 8:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
It's not the being alone so much as having no one that gives a s**t. You can have a thousand superficial friends and still be fundamentally alone. The vast majority of people aren't truly there for others. Not these days.
I'm not talking about myself. I know there are people that care about me. I'm just saying I also know there are people for whom no one truly cares enough to help. They are just left alone and wind up going through mental hospitalization only to not really be helped. They are simply kicked back out onto the street again. It's really quite sh***y.
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