I need your help because I'm not good at the female languag.

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03 Mar 2017, 1:01 pm

I have a question about the title of the thread. I get the impression that 'female language' is more than just gendered speech in Japan. I read a news article about a woman who wrote an editorial objecting to the treatment of women in Japan, and one of the criticisms leveled against it was that she used language unbecoming of a woman.

How much of a thing is 'female language' in Japanese? Is it just in the business and political elites, or does it influence the way a variety of groups in Japan use the language? Mostly, I'm curious about how rigid the boundary is.

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03 Mar 2017, 8:58 pm

jrjones9933 wrote:

On the thread title, I only meant the female language with implication that the female would be somewhat less straightforward in their daily speech. I don't at all intend it to make people feel bad about that.

Answering your question, I would say that the so-called female language in Japan has become less obscure in areas outside work; the female of young age groups tend to be more casual and slangy, and on much of the internet as well, whereas the female on high positions in business/government and secretaries (and the fields that value tradition, such as Japanese dance teachers and tea ceremony teachers) are still required to learn the language appropriate for them. I hope this makes sense.

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03 Mar 2017, 9:09 pm

Thanks for the information. I wondered if that was the case. It's possible that the thread title put some people off, now that I think about it; I don't quite understand how the thread went sideways, but it seems to have had nothing to do with anything you intended. Just another day at work for the internet.

The idea of gendered speech beyond pronouns seems odd to some people in the US, but my interest in linguistics shows me all kinds of ways that people use English in similar ways. Here, too, those rules only apply in specific settings. As just one example, some women adopt a habit of raising the pitch of their voice at the end of every sentence. In English, this indicates asking a question, so it sounds like they aren't sure of anything they say. It probably works well on men of a certain age and social status.

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03 Mar 2017, 9:33 pm

jrjones9933 wrote:

The idea of gendered speech beyond pronouns seems odd to some people in the US, but my interest in linguistics shows me all kinds of ways that people use English in similar ways. Here, too, those rules only apply in specific settings. As just one example, some women adopt a habit of raising the pitch of their voice at the end of every sentence. In English, this indicates asking a question, so it sounds like they aren't sure of anything they say. It probably works well on men of a certain age and social status.

I imagine it's much the same as in the U.S. where a woman are often condemned as "abrasive", unprofessional, or "un ladylike" for speech that men are viewed positively for, or are given passes for.

For example, where a man might send an e-mail at work saying "Are you finished with the report yet?" a woman might say "I was just wondering if you are finished with the report yet."

I don't understand any Japanese but I notice the men tend to use deeper, gruffer tones and more forceful speech patterns than the women, and the women tend to use higher, more nasal tones.

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03 Mar 2017, 9:34 pm

jrjones9933 wrote:

You're welcome.

Quote:

That is interesting. On a work-related training here, I learned that raising the voice pitch at the end of a sentence can indicate the speaker's interest on the listener. I can also see some women do it on purpose.

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03 Mar 2017, 9:45 pm

Thinking about it, would it be possible for a person to pepper their sentences with 'desu ka' in order to diminish the appearance of confidence? Or, some equivalent use of language?

I appreciate that asking people to extend their remarks shows an interest in what they are saying, and people can use that change of pitch and restate what the person was saying to accomplish that. It will often help people open up, so I highly recommend it for extending conversations with interesting people. However, this becomes more of an affectation for the people I describe, a perpetual element of their personal style, rather than a way to achieve a goal in a particular setting.

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03 Mar 2017, 10:30 pm

jrjones9933 wrote:

Thinking about it, would it be possible for a person to pepper their sentences with 'desu ka' in order to diminish the appearance of confidence? Or, some equivalent use of language?

Certainly. 'desu ne' is also used at the end of a sentence. I see that the Japanese generally refrain from making definitive speeches, due to possibly lacking confidence and valuing consensus.

Quote:

I appreciate that asking people to extend their remarks shows an interest in what they are saying, and people can use that change of pitch and restate what the person was saying to accomplish that. It will often help people open up, so I highly recommend it for extending conversations with interesting people.

That is a good way to keep the conversation going.

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20 Apr 2017, 1:02 pm

Barchan wrote:

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

Ahhh still having a grudge on that, eh?

Oh, there's no grudge. It's not an unreasonable assumption. The word "barchan" means a crescent-shaped sand dune, and I thought that was pretty so I used it. I only found out later that it's also the name of a town in Iran. Whoops!

I remember reading about barchan dunes in geology class.

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