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Why do almost all 'incels' blame their situation on looks?

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DanielW
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15 Aug 2019, 6:27 pm

Aspie1 wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Uri wrote:
There's probably some truth in it.

These days if you are not handsome in looks and if you don't have a lot of money and if you're not famous chances are you are going to have a hard time to get a good-looking girlfriend.

My experience in life tells me that:

1. Pretty girls are attracted to handsome looks

2. Pretty girls are attracted to men who make a lot of money

3. Pretty girls are attracted to fame and social status.

So if you don't have any of these things then you're going to have a hard time to get a good-looking girl.


Not just the "pretty girls", life tells me that even most of the average-looking and even ugly women want handsome guys.

Hmm, I wonder if there's a way to implement a charity service. That is, free or discounted plastic surgeries for ugly men, like me before age 27. (It'll be funded somehow; ignore the details for now.) It probably won't be that expensive. Most ugly men don't need a lot of facial changes to look better: a small nip/tuck around the eyes, a minor rhinoplasty, a mouth adjustment to make a better smile, etc. (In my own case, my eyes were my ugliest feature, so that's where I planned my surgery to take place.) But even these small adjustments, that are impossible to do non-surgically, will make a HUGE difference in the quality of life to those men. It ranges from more frequent dates to higher wages at work, all thanks to better looks.

If this charity system can be implemented and enough men use it, Incels will cease to exist in a few decades or even less. Red Pill won't disappear, but it'll become less popular; fewer men will turn to it to compensate for their bad looks. MGTOW will probably continue to exist at today's rates, due to the legal system heavily favoring women in much of the Western world.


And what would you suggest to deal with the non-physical "Ugliness" that's the real reason behing their unhappiness and inability to find a mate?



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15 Aug 2019, 9:18 pm

DanielW wrote:
And what would you suggest to deal with the non-physical "Ugliness" that's the real reason behing their unhappiness and inability to find a mate?

The "non-physically ugly" men you're describing are the very Incels the plastic surgeries are meant to do away with. While a subset of them are rotten to the core from the get-go, a larger number of them become that way from prolonged repeated rejection at a young age, when they're most sensitive to it. And why does the rejection happen? Because they're ugly. That, and an easy access to an online soundboard is a dangerous combination.

While it'd be nice if everyone selected partners based on personality and not looks, it's not realistic: the heart wants what it wants. Which includes women wanting attractive men. And many men cannot meet the women's attractiveness standards, which makes them frustrated, which... you know. Plastic surgery gets around all that.

I'm not insinuating that women need to lower their physical standards. Far from it! Women have every right to select partners based on looks, as do men. If anything, I'm doing the opposite: I'm saying that ugly men should have a simple way to change their looks. So, after surgery, a man with a good personality but a formerly ugly face will find a girlfriend, as opposed to being left out in the cold. After all, "Beauty and the Beast" is fiction.



Farunel
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16 Aug 2019, 1:55 am

Simple. It's much easier to blame your luck on something out of control like looks, than a flawed personality. It also shifts blame from yourself, so they don't have to take responsibility for said flaws.



rdos
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16 Aug 2019, 2:07 am

Mona Pereth wrote:
Until the existence of these signals can be objectively demonstrated, it's not reasonable to expect the rest of us to devote time and energy to learning how to send them.


The ability comes naturally if you pursue relationships in a natural way, so no need to devote any time & energy of learning how to send them. What more NDs need to do is to let go of the idea of asking out, dating & "the more the better", and start putting more effort into fewer love interests that have some potential.



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16 Aug 2019, 6:22 am

Farunel wrote:
Simple. It's much easier to blame your luck on something out of control like looks, than a flawed personality. It also shifts blame from yourself, so they don't have to take responsibility for said flaws.
Ah, but that's where you're wrong. I, for once, did try to take responsibility for my flawed looks. I just didn't go through with it because of the cost and the recovery time. I took responsibility for my "personality" too, which helps me meet women to this day. I just can't talk about what exactly I read to improve myself; TOS, you know. But still, the biggest factor was me aging into my looks, thus becoming more attractive, in my late 20's.

So, by giving ugly men a straightforward, low-cost way to change their looks, rather than having it be a pie-in-the-sky idea like it is now, we'll do away with Incels entirely. The movement will cease to exist. With better looks, more men will find love. For example, if tense facial muscles make a man look ugly and creepy, the surgery will correct the muscles to make them look relaxed. If I got surgery around my creepy eyes, I'd look good at age 21, rather than cursing myself out every time I walked past the mirror and waiting until age 28 to look better.

It'd just look funny to see tons of men all walking about with surgical bandages on their faces. And escort services would lose almost all clients. But we'll get used to it.



rdos
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16 Aug 2019, 7:05 am

Aspie1 wrote:
Farunel wrote:
Simple. It's much easier to blame your luck on something out of control like looks, than a flawed personality. It also shifts blame from yourself, so they don't have to take responsibility for said flaws.
Ah, but that's where you're wrong. I, for once, did try to take responsibility for my flawed looks. I just didn't go through with it because of the cost and the recovery time. I took responsibility for my "personality" too, which helps me meet women to this day. I just can't talk about what exactly I read to improve myself; TOS, you know. But still, the biggest factor was me aging into my looks, thus becoming more attractive, in my late 20's.

So, by giving ugly men a straightforward, low-cost way to change their looks, rather than having it be a pie-in-the-sky idea like it is now, we'll do away with Incels entirely. The movement will cease to exist. With better looks, more men will find love. For example, if tense facial muscles make a man look ugly and creepy, the surgery will correct the muscles to make them look relaxed. If I got surgery around my creepy eyes, I'd look good at age 21, rather than cursing myself out every time I walked past the mirror and waiting until age 28 to look better.

It'd just look funny to see tons of men all walking about with surgical bandages on their faces. And escort services would lose almost all clients. But we'll get used to it.


I think you are wrong here. Looks are relative, and so if some men use surgery to improve their looks, then some other men will be considered ugly instead.



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16 Aug 2019, 7:30 am

rdos wrote:
I think you are wrong here. Looks are relative, and so if some men use surgery to improve their looks, then some other men will be considered ugly instead.
I disagree. With easily accessible surgery, all men will have a chance to become physically attractive to women. "A rising tide lifts all boats", after all. It's not going to be a real-life version of Dr. Seuss's "Sneetches" book.

And since people here keep beating the "personality" drum, chew on this: With looks being more equalized, men will be more compelled to improve their personalities too. Maybe even in politically correct ways, rather than becoming Red Pilled.



rdos
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16 Aug 2019, 8:42 am

Aspie1 wrote:
rdos wrote:
I think you are wrong here. Looks are relative, and so if some men use surgery to improve their looks, then some other men will be considered ugly instead.
I disagree. With easily accessible surgery, all men will have a chance to become physically attractive to women. "A rising tide lifts all boats", after all. It's not going to be a real-life version of Dr. Seuss's "Sneetches" book.


I stay away from women that only see looks, status & income in men. In fact, I think most of the problems men (and women too) face with online dating are mostly related to looks being relative. When we get more potential partners, we simply increase our demands (including those of looks) to create a dating pool that is manageable.

Aspie1 wrote:

And since people here keep beating the "personality" drum, chew on this: With looks being more equalized, men will be more compelled to improve their personalities too. Maybe even in politically correct ways, rather than becoming Red Pilled.


Looks can never be equalized. When people look more alike we simply use less distinguishing things to judge each other. It's similar to bullying. If those that get bullied because of looks or how they act improve, then the bullies will simply select some new victims that stick out less.



Farunel
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16 Aug 2019, 1:06 pm

Aspie1 wrote:
Farunel wrote:
Simple. It's much easier to blame your luck on something out of control like looks, than a flawed personality. It also shifts blame from yourself, so they don't have to take responsibility for said flaws.
Ah, but that's where you're wrong. I, for once, did try to take responsibility for my flawed looks. I just didn't go through with it because of the cost and the recovery time. I took responsibility for my "personality" too, which helps me meet women to this day. I just can't talk about what exactly I read to improve myself; TOS, you know. But still, the biggest factor was me aging into my looks, thus becoming more attractive, in my late 20's.

So, by giving ugly men a straightforward, low-cost way to change their looks, rather than having it be a pie-in-the-sky idea like it is now, we'll do away with Incels entirely. The movement will cease to exist. With better looks, more men will find love. For example, if tense facial muscles make a man look ugly and creepy, the surgery will correct the muscles to make them look relaxed. If I got surgery around my creepy eyes, I'd look good at age 21, rather than cursing myself out every time I walked past the mirror and waiting until age 28 to look better.

It'd just look funny to see tons of men all walking about with surgical bandages on their faces. And escort services would lose almost all clients. But we'll get used to it.


You missed my point. I'm talking about your self proclaimed incel that post on r9k. Most of them have absolute s**t personalities and attitudes and won't take responsibility for their actions. Basically lamenting that women won't just throw themselves upon them. Lack of basic grooming was also a running theme. I kind of doubt your eyes were the sole reason you were having trouble dating in your early 20's.

There have been plenty of studies showing that women are more inclined to settle starting in their late 20's. So in the early 20's age bracket, the more outgoing and extroverted people tend to "shine" for lack of better wording. In my own anecdotal experiences, I haven't dated anyone "In the real world" since the 10th grade (Which was short lived and strictly in school)... But I don't think there is anything else to blame other than I am not outgoing, and am not good with people.



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16 Aug 2019, 7:35 pm

BenderRodriguez wrote:
Fnord wrote:
SportsGamer35728 wrote:
What is one supposed to do if they fare better romantically with minority women but have racist family?
Marry the girl and forget the family.
And you'll be much happier than the other way around!
It certainly works for me!



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16 Aug 2019, 7:38 pm

SportsGamer35728 wrote:
BenderRodriguez wrote:
Fnord wrote:
SportsGamer35728 wrote:
What is one supposed to do if they fare better romantically with minority women but have racist family?
Marry the girl and forget the family.
And you'll be much happier than the other way around!
Ok. But what if, other than that, your family will do practically anything for you?
Is your family willing to play Matchmaker and find you a girlfriend? Mine wasn't. They wouldn't even help me find a better job, yet they were obviously contemptuous of the job I had and the women I dated.

And if you intend on playing the "Yeah, but what if...?" game on me, I'm gonna stop playing it right now.



sly279
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16 Aug 2019, 9:23 pm

Farunel wrote:
Aspie1 wrote:
Farunel wrote:
Simple. It's much easier to blame your luck on something out of control like looks, than a flawed personality. It also shifts blame from yourself, so they don't have to take responsibility for said flaws.
Ah, but that's where you're wrong. I, for once, did try to take responsibility for my flawed looks. I just didn't go through with it because of the cost and the recovery time. I took responsibility for my "personality" too, which helps me meet women to this day. I just can't talk about what exactly I read to improve myself; TOS, you know. But still, the biggest factor was me aging into my looks, thus becoming more attractive, in my late 20's.

So, by giving ugly men a straightforward, low-cost way to change their looks, rather than having it be a pie-in-the-sky idea like it is now, we'll do away with Incels entirely. The movement will cease to exist. With better looks, more men will find love. For example, if tense facial muscles make a man look ugly and creepy, the surgery will correct the muscles to make them look relaxed. If I got surgery around my creepy eyes, I'd look good at age 21, rather than cursing myself out every time I walked past the mirror and waiting until age 28 to look better.

It'd just look funny to see tons of men all walking about with surgical bandages on their faces. And escort services would lose almost all clients. But we'll get used to it.


You missed my point. I'm talking about your self proclaimed incel that post on r9k. Most of them have absolute s**t personalities and attitudes and won't take responsibility for their actions. Basically lamenting that women won't just throw themselves upon them. Lack of basic grooming was also a running theme. I kind of doubt your eyes were the sole reason you were having trouble dating in your early 20's.

There have been plenty of studies showing that women are more inclined to settle starting in their late 20's. So in the early 20's age bracket, the more outgoing and extroverted people tend to "shine" for lack of better wording. In my own anecdotal experiences, I haven't dated anyone "In the real world" since the 10th grade (Which was short lived and strictly in school)... But I don't think there is anything else to blame other than I am not outgoing, and am not good with people.

:cry:


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Farunel
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16 Aug 2019, 9:58 pm

sly279 wrote:
:cry:


Why



Aspie1
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16 Aug 2019, 10:59 pm

Farunel wrote:
It'd just look funny to see tons of There have been plenty of studies showing that women are more inclined to settle starting in their late 20's. So in the early 20's age bracket, the more outgoing and extroverted people tend to "shine" for lack of better wording.
I'm aware of that. So I go out of my way to avoid dating women ages 28 to 36. That's the age when a lot of women are looking for a safe husband. And I find it really insulting if a woman shows interest in me because I'm "safe", rather than because I'm sexy and desirable. At the same time, I'm more outgoing now than I've ever been. So, I get along well with younger women, at least socially. (Younger men too.) Because my sex drive is nearly nonexistent, they see me as a non-creepy, mildly interesting older man. But I also know my limits: I avoid flirting too heavily with any woman too young, like college age, lest I be perceived as a "dirty old man". Playful banter and flirty picture poses, sure. Any tangentially sexual, no way.

And in case anyone accuses me of misogyny, I will point out that my best friend is a 25-year-old woman. She came into my life in 2016 at a dark time, and made my life better. I very much cherish her friendship.



Farunel
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16 Aug 2019, 11:47 pm

Aspie1 wrote:
Farunel wrote:
It'd just look funny to see tons of There have been plenty of studies showing that women are more inclined to settle starting in their late 20's. So in the early 20's age bracket, the more outgoing and extroverted people tend to "shine" for lack of better wording.
I'm aware of that. So I go out of my way to avoid dating women ages 28 to 36. That's the age when a lot of women are looking for a safe husband. And I find it really insulting if a woman shows interest in me because I'm "safe", rather than because I'm sexy and desirable. At the same time, I'm more outgoing now than I've ever been. So, I get along well with younger women, at least socially. (Younger men too.) Because my sex drive is nearly nonexistent, they see me as a non-creepy, mildly interesting older man. But I also know my limits: I avoid flirting too heavily with any woman too young, like college age, lest I be perceived as a "dirty old man". Playful banter and flirty picture poses, sure. Any tangentially sexual, no way.

And in case anyone accuses me of misogyny, I will point out that my best friend is a 25-year-old woman. She came into my life in 2016 at a dark time, and made my life better. I very much cherish her friendship.


I mean, having a friend of the opposite sex doesn't really excuse you, but I'm also not calling you a misogynist. I wouldn't know enough about you to say that much. You do have some slightly outdated preconceptions, though. Especially with millennials, who are breaking a lot of ongoing trends. A lot of people aren't really marrying anymore.

My sisters are 29 and 30 and aren't like that at all. I doubt one of them will ever get married. And the other got married after dating the same guy for over 7 or 8 years, I can't remember exactly how long. This runs throughout in the general group of people I know in that age bracket. Given, my mom is especially unconventional. And I also don't know what it's like in other countries, or other areas of my own country. Oregonians are their own breed. (Excluding places like Portland, screw Portlanders.)



SportsGamer35728
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17 Aug 2019, 7:33 am

Fnord wrote:
SportsGamer35728 wrote:
BenderRodriguez wrote:
Fnord wrote:
SportsGamer35728 wrote:
What is one supposed to do if they fare better romantically with minority women but have racist family?
Marry the girl and forget the family.
And you'll be much happier than the other way around!
Ok. But what if, other than that, your family will do practically anything for you?
Is your family willing to play Matchmaker and find you a girlfriend? Mine wasn't. They wouldn't even help me find a better job, yet they were obviously contemptuous of the job I had and the women I dated.

And if you intend on playing the "Yeah, but what if...?" game on me, I'm gonna stop playing it right now.

Not really, unfortunately :/ All my cousins are in their mid-upper 30s so they don't know many people my age.