suicide

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People fear “saying the wrong thing.”

and for good reason, some folk are on the edge, very fragile, and the wrong thing can send them over the edge. i for one totally lack the brain parts to help these people appropriately, in just the same way as when i was in their boat, i didn't comprehend how anybody else could understand how i was feeling. there are none so blind as those who will not see, and pain blinds very effectively. there are people who simply don't know how they can go on living. they can't see any answers or even any hints. all they see is more unendurable pain.

I do indeed have very nice family members. They, in fact, are what keeps me going. In the past, depression was telling me not to believe them when they said they cared about me and stuff, now I actually do believe it would deeply hurt them if I ended my life, so I’m at least sticking around for as long as they do.

Sounds to me like a wrong way of thinking about yourself. You should stop that and look more positive ahead instead. Don't ever loose curiousity about life!

When you're suicidal, you don't care about what's gutsy or what's cowardly. You care about what will end your suffering.

Sometimes your life is just too damaged to fix and you have nothing left to look forwards to. It's especially painful when you look back at your life and see all the opportunities you squandered. Knowing its our own damn fault we ended up this way is the hardest part. For some of us release is all we have left to hope for.

if you make it to my age, you often can see that what you thought were opportunities were, in retrospect, mirages. IOW one does get hard-won perspective. but the cost is high.

Even suicidal people assess the risk and the potential pain of the “act.”

They often say “I haven’t got the courage to kill myself.”

That and the thought what if it doesn't quite work.

You can't measure bravery

The dictionary didn't specify

Every situation is different

That's true.

I read a book from the library written by a woman who had survived multiple attempts to commit suicide.


Then she kept at it trying to find a way to stop trying or wanting to commit suicide

She had written her experiences of being in ICU and other places and of meeting ppl who had attempted but it hadnt worked

She said the reason she shared some of their stories was to help prevent attempts


so ppl knew of the likelihood that no matter how well they had planned it out it may not work n wd render them in more pain etc..



She wd list some extraordinarily sad and shocking stories of ppl who had survived but rendered paralyzed/brain damaged/worse off n more incapable than prior to the attempts.


She also listed other things like coping mechanisms n CBT techniques etc for readers that she had tried that helped


She had to keep doing those things daily even while writing this book to stop feeling suicidal

Below (trigger/shock warning)

There were those who had persisted trying it but still it wdnt work..

I am totally agree

I think maybe it's not so black and white. I think it goes both ways.

On the one hand, it does take bravery to face death. I believe this is one reason why many who attempt suicide, on an unconscious level, fail at it. They say they have every intention of pulling it off, yet use a method that is not sound. So you can see some part of them has not made sure that they will complete it...maybe because on a less conscious level, they are afraid. Or they think it's easier than it really is. And of course you find many threatening it but never doing it. So there is real fear there surrounding death in many cases -- how can there not be?

Yet at the same time, adopting suicide as a "strategy" is a kind of evasion. A person does not want to face a painful life, so they run from it. For these people it may be an easier way out.

I personally suffered from suicidality for years -- and I was absolutely set on not failing it, if I were to attempt. I knew that if I were to do it, I wanted it to work and be final. So I researched methods and made plans. I talked to a guy about it and we had similar intentions, but he said he felt there was still hope for me. He did end up going through with it.

But ultimately what led me to not follow through was this perpetual stalling, and then thinking about my family. Although I was not happy, I knew they loved me, and I knew it would ruin their lives to take my own. So I couldn't ultimately go through with it. Others may have no one they feel loves them, and so my reasons may not apply to them. Yet if I had had a simple, irreversible, quick method like a poison pill or something on hand, that I knew would work, there were many times I would've used it. It was fear of not having a good method that led me to stall...and then to think things through more.

So maybe it's a complicated issue? It's on love and dating maybe somewhat appropriately, because many commit, attempt, or contemplate suicide as result of love not working out. That's how it was for me.

While it is true that it takes bravery to face death, it also takes bravery to face life; and since bravery is standing up to your fears, suicide depends on which you fear most -- living or dying.  This is an issue which Shakespeare's Hamlet faced...

"To be, or not to be, that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles
And by opposing end them. To die -- to sleep,
No more; and by a sleep to say we end
The heart-ache and the thousand natural shocks
That flesh is heir to: 'tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wish'd. To die, to sleep;
To sleep, perchance to dream -- ay, there's the rub:
For in that sleep of death what dreams may come,
When we have shuffled off this mortal coil,
Must give us pause -- there's the respect
That makes calamity of so long life.
For who would bear the whips and scorns of time,
Th'oppressor's wrong, the proud man's contumely,
The pangs of dispriz'd love, the law's delay,
The insolence of office, and the spurns
That patient merit of th'unworthy takes,
When he himself might his quietus make
With a bare bodkin? Who would fardels bear,
To grunt and sweat under a weary life,
But that the dread of something after death,
The undiscovere'd country, from whose bourn
No traveller returns, puzzles the will,
And makes us rather bear those ills we have
Than fly to others that we know not of?
Thus conscience does make cowards of us all,
And thus the native hue of resolution
Is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of thought,
And enterprises of great pitch and moment
With this regard their currents turn awry
And lose the name of action."

-- William Shakespeare, "The Tragedy of Hamlet, Prince of Denmark", Act 3, Scene 1

In the speech, Hamlet contemplates death and suicide, bemoaning the pain and unfairness of life but acknowledging that the alternative might be worse.

Last edited by Fnord on 10 Aug 2020, 7:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

My take on it: brave is not always better. Most of the time brave is actually worse. I think rock climbers are quite brave, but I think they are foolish. You know why brave is usually foolish? Because the reason someone is brave is *because* one puts oneself in danger, and putting oneself in danger is foolish. Suicide is a perfect example of it. Is it brave? Yes: death is scarrier than all misery this life can give put together? Is it foolish? You bet: precisely for that reason. Should you do it? NOPE ABSOLUTELY NOT. Brave isn't important, especially not if it costs you so much.

The reason we were led to believe that brave is better is that we were focused on 1% of the cases where it is. But thats only 1%. Like exercize is hard but its good for you. But purposely breaking a bone is also hard but its bad for you. Nobody talks about purposely breaking a bone since its no-brainer, and everyone talks about exercizes. Thats why they came up with erroneous saying "no pain no gain" which isn't true on the large scale.

Another example of un-truth is that healthy food tastes bad and unhealthy food tastes good. Excrements taste awful, *and* they are unhealthy. Its just that nobody talks about them. So in the 99% of cases unhealthy things taste bad and healthy things taste good. But these 99% of cases won't draw anybody's attention. People are all focused on the 1% of cases when there is a mismatch.

I love this thread just from seeing the way people think in different ways about the same thing ..

not only is it interesting it's nuanced ...
N informative from different angles..

Online NTs often say what they know to be obviously true or politically correct , safe or whatever is said by their fave politician/trendy writer/generally by ppl..
Not maybe what They really think..

but here it seems everyone has really thought about this subject not just parroting or trying to fit in... n nobody is mean..