Break up regrets, and a time out

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My advice to you is for you to work on your paintings, and don’t count on HIM for your happiness.

He’s working on his projects; you’re working on yours.

LOL you wouldn’t like me too much. I’m not a “project” person

I know, I should depend more on myself for my happiness, than on him, or anyone else.

It's a pattern in my life, that I've been raised by. Find a rich husband, or you have failed in life.
These are truly my mothers words, and as much as I have diverted from them, they still mark my goals for safety.


Yesterday turned out different than my pessimistic blurts in the morning.

I apped him on beforehand if he would open the garden gate for me, expected nothing. Expected the worst.

Well I came there, the garden gate was open, he was in the kitchen, brunch was rich and he had thought of custom vegetable rolls. We sat down and we just enjoyed it so much, I had to hold back my tears every other second. In any other setting was this so romantic.

After that he made me look at some programming projects he had been doing. He seriously wanted my input, because I know that stuff, he loves it so much that I am both a nice girl and so interested in coding projects.

Then, errr.. well from cuddling came something else. You may guess. It took a few hours and a lot of cuddling, still. I hadn't expected to see the bedroom ever again, not anytime soon at least. I mean, we both vented our intentions on being more physical than cuddling only, and he asked me if I was comfortable with that. Let me think for a good ten minutes. And so that happened, it was great (but every theory says intimacy with your ex is great).
In the process we both said some words about 'seeing other people' - but both we feel that the time is not there yet, we enjoy each other too much still. He said girls like me didn't exactly come flying through his bedroom window.

Also, I think, that if he has regular intimacy with me, he will not seek that in another woman. Unless he finds a suitable intelligent woman with whom he bonds first and then links intimacy to it as a complete package.

We talked about just not fitting in together. That's where he did break my heart once more; I see it happen in the future that if we both grow, we can be a couple again. He is strict in that - defining us as a couple will anyhow bring back the stress, the frustrations, and that is really not what he wants from a relationship. He wants me to stay lifelong best friends.

He also reset his goal to find a love relationship. That's what he ultimately wants. Not that he is on the lookout now. Or that he was really succesful in the last four years before he met me. Or that he knows a thing about dating sites or apps, he is simple in that.

I hope that his vision on never getting back together is a thing of fear now. It's been exactly two weeks. But on the other hand: if I stick to him with the hope of getting back together, I'm only living half a life. If we keep seeing each other as friends he might gain trust over time, that (in this setting) I am not clingy and we both have our lives. Being clingy was not the only thing that broke us up, btw. But it is for him the main reason not to be a couple again. I should not hope, because it will damage my life and it will not give us both freedom for growth.

So, that said.

Since the cafe terraces are open under restrictions, I proposed to have a beer. He was all for that, he'd been wanting to do that with me for weeks. So we went, and we drank a bit too much. We stayed a bit too long. We talked about troubles and revelations. I silently cried, for all to see, and I didn't care. We agreed that it is so utterly sad that a relationship doesn't work between us two. We walked home, hand in hand. And after some more intimacy I went home.

And here I am now. A friend asks me if I can cope with the insecurity. He is free to roam now. And he will, eventually.
So another hard break will follow, on a given day.

Or I might find someone new. Who knows?

He wants his cake, and to eat it as well.

You should have that same mindset....

Indeed, he now has all he wanted, and the freedom, too...
So I understand why he is not in favor to change it back. May it be pride, or fear of repetition of his former love.

I said to him tonight that I wanted to respond on one thing he yesterday said.
He said that with his ex, the love felt over - after thirteen years. And the ex was on the lookout for someone else.
They tried therapy, but that didn't work.

He let me say my thing on this.
I wanted him to know that this with us is only 2,5 years, but only the last half year we were fed up - because we were not talking with each other, but away from each other. The feeling yesterday was, that we love each other a lot - still! So that is different. And the two weeks of talking we've done now have brought us more insight than the therapy he had with his ex, I suppose.

He said he thinks talking and trying again will result in the same conclusion.
I said we've talked enough, I don't want to talk anymore. I want to try it again because we're better of as lovers who let each other free in things we sort out.

He diverted the conversation by talking about a lighter topic, then told me he would go walking for a while.
Walking is good - he usually thinks things over when he walks.


I'm still in the middle of what to do with him. If I'm going to deny him sex, he will search that in another woman earlier. If I'm going to cut contact altogether, I will miss out on a few appointments we still have - he's coming over to help me with my kitchen redoings, he has some other home improvement stuff for me in his house that currently doesn't fit in mine. We will go on friendly dates still - if I cut all that, I'm going to be more sad than I am now.

I just can't choose. My nieces talked to me today, one of them was quite easy on it: you're a placeholder for him! He's on the lookout for a potential relationship and you are hoping to get back together! You will get disappointed at some point!

I just don't know what to do yet. Maybe have the sex. Maybe have all the dates. And put my mind to 'no future, just fun'. I just can't do that yet. I think that two people who love each other this much, should be together. If no wars, borders or religion keep them apart.

I suppose in a few weeks, months, I will see this from a perspective... but for now it is quite impossible.

I should never have cut ties altogether, yet we shouldn't have gone on like we did. Where is the solution...

I for one stopped labeling my personal relationships years ago.

How do you mean stopped labeling?

That I try not to think about how people do or don't relate to me. I sort of decided it was a waste of energy in the face of what I should get done anyway.

I don't subscribe nor do I unsubscribe to the whole concept of relationships.

I hear that from older friends I know, with those I mean +60, who went to dating sites and found new love, in whatever form then...

They use to call their newfound loves 'life partners' or 'life companions' - nothing sort of the 'courtship' 'boyfriend/girlfriend/spouse/so' ... in a way it sounds much more mature, stable.

I've always had these rigid ideas. Not to say I'd ever want to be in an open relationship. But being told you've succeeded once you've married a rich guy, gotten kids, a home together, and a car in the driveway... it has broken me.

I'm a broken record that, relationship after relationship, lands in the same groove, sees we're not destined for such a future together, and get sad, and turn away.

I have to reinvent myself. At 37.
And so should my ex M.. ... he isn't on the right path either. Though he thinks he is and sees nothing wrong in him. The troubles are all around him. I shouldn't sacrifice myself to help him. Yet I do.

You are young yet which is good.

I don't have the answers of if you two should make a go of it or not.

I am one who wants things properly done so for me sex outside marriage is not a direction I would want to take in life as there is no commitment. (I am sharing my general personal thoughts).

I like to see "Happy endings". I really want to see that happen. I have been in tears of joy when I found the right man for my last girlfriend. Yes I loved and admired her and I found it very very sad that I am not in touch with her. (This was her decision and not mine). I broke up with her as I knew inside that she was not the right one for me... She was one of the kindest hearted beautiful people... Actually, she is on the autism spectrum and it was where I first became confused when she tried to descrbe what autism is, because almost everything she was saying in trying to describe herself was no different to my everyday life. I laughingly joked and said "Am I on the spectrum too?" and I said this to be funny. I was not serious, but she insisted I took an online test which had me puzzled because it said I need to see a psycologist (Did not know what a psycologist is) or a doctor or a health professional.
It actually took me two years of trying to ask my doctor because every time I saw them and went in, I had mind blank and had to talk about another pre-rehearsed condition to free my mind up again so I could speak.
I would have been assessed a year or two ago if it wasn't for that. That was about four or five years ago but at least I am on the list to be assessed (Long story).

Sorry. I have gone off on tangents in my thoughts.

Well. I hope you two can be great together. You know each other well.

Best way to describe finding the right person is that the person feels right to be with and fills that gap that is missing inside. The person makes you feel complete. The right jigsaw piece that fits in.

The wrong jigsaw piece will keep shifting trying to fit. Trying to make the future picture together...

That is all I can think of, and I am still single so I can't advize... I don't have much experience.

What I can say is how my parents worked so well together. They were complete opposits, but they fit so well... Jigsaw pieces that fit!
Where one had a weakness, the other had a strength, and there was virtually no task they could not do together because of this! It worked.

After the 'free for all' last Sunday, I wanted the following appointment to go by my rules.

Throughout the week we talked like friends, and tha tis really something we do. We mention every oops, every drop of rain, we're just chatty like that. Other friends get well annoyed by such random blurts, but we don't.
When we were still together, he often held me and said 'today, I wished you were on my shoulder - because I wanted to show you all! All!' .

And people might label that as best friends, soul mates, but to me, it's almost the highest form of being together. Melting your minds is that. Melting bodies in form of sex is a thing I feel when physical cravings kick in, but it never satisfies as much as thinking together .

So on Wednesday I called a friend, and she asked me about these friends of his - the couple that I don't like: 'Mia and Bob'. I posted about it last summer, when they totally went past my limits on being vulgar and mean to their friend Jim.

viewtopic.php?t=388422 "His friends are too vulgar to me"

Well the friend says 'isn't that couple just a swingers couple, and your boyfriend has become involved again?'
So I think about it... and the puzzle pieces fall together.
You can read in the other topic, that I had my doubts if there was anything happening between Mia and my guy. My guy said the sex chats had stopped the day we got our relationship, and would not happen again. I think that in the last months, they did happen again, because Mia saw a chance in driving us apart. After all, I had broken into their friendship...

From day one, Bob had been trying to get a piece of me. Maybe because my M. had a piece of Mia, and he wanted a fair share deal? Makes it logical that he huffed when I kept saying no. And that my boyfriend couldn't explain it to me, because this was fair in their relationship, but if he would explain the why of Bobs wishes to me, I had known a lot about what has ever been 'said or done' between him and Mia.

So Thursday I thought a lot about it. About how the sex chats probably have returned over the months that we were not so well together. And that now M. is free again, he can do what he want - with Mia - and the three are happy with that. And M. never wants to be back in a relationship again - not with a girl like me - because he knows I sense it, and will always fret about it. Darn right I would fret about that!! !

Monogamy is a thing to value, and I speculate that his rules for monogamy were a bit bent in his favor. With no natural compliance from my side, no forceful compliance from my side, he was stuck with a girlfriend that he truly loved - and loves - but who does not fit in his 'sharing' friend group.

I haven't asked him about it. Because since he's free now, the answer whether he now sex-apps Mia can be a full yes - and that would make me stay right awake and cry every single night. I don't want to be replaced by a slut like that. And to not hurt me, he will never disclose if those apps were ongoing in the months we were still together.

I have told myself - and him - not to be anxious about going astray anymore. So why would I ask him this. It is done and over now.


So, that's for the evil (but painfully fitting) thoughts.


On Friday, my new kitchen counter was delivered, quite a thing, and he would help fit it into my kitchen. From the moment he was here, it was a breeze. We hugged, but I told him not to kiss on the mouth. That felt like a rejection, but I later explained him (yeah why did I explain him that...) that these are my rules now.

I told him I am not in 'courting mode' (thanks rdos for this terminology long ago). Courting mode for me is where you do extra lovey things to get someone to love you more. Special kisses, winks, show skin, act sexy.
I do the cuddles and the kisses on the head, but not the part where we work towards a relationship. Because that's not in the cards for us both anymore.

So we built my kitchen counter that day. He even drove back to his home to get stuff. Time was no problem. He regularly sat down with me to cuddle, just hold me, sniff my clothes and hair. Since we had said the goodbye sex had been the last, he didn't have to expect anything. He was just nice and he missed me being around, I felt that. We had also a lot of fun making jokes and helping each other out right where we needed it. It all went so smooth, we're a good team at these jobs! We find it sad it's not realistic to go out with the camper together these days.

Well I said I have nothing against it, except for that it rains every day... yes it creates bittersweet memories but I see that he likes to be with me, still, too.

Since my kitchen was in pieces, we drove to his house and cooked dinner there. It was so nice together. We can keep doing this as friends. The cuddling is another part, ok.

We cuddled for a long time yesterday, we both know this will wear off and we will find other people in our lives. He said he was happy that, during the summer camp we hopefully both go to, I sleep in a tent apart from him, and not in his camper. Because he thinks that at that camp, I will quickly find an interesting male to spend the night with..?? (that's so not my style). But same for him, if he finds a nice girl he can sleep with her in his camper. We will drive to and from the event together in his camper.

Today he's gone to Mia's birthday, and I guess he won't be back until late at night. I spent the day helping friends move. But I got tired. And sad. And more tired than I expected.

So now I'm home, I don't know what to do anymore. There is a family problem playing along the side as well, on which I will have to take action the oncoming days. It all comes in a tough moment, but the universe always does things at the right time.

I think during the situation you are in being very good friends together is a victory and has no real bad feelings.

Sometimes one may date many before finding the "Right One", and this feeling of finding the right person must come from both parties.

Ideally dating should not involve sex because it is harder to tear each other apart if things do not work out.
Dating is good, and it is natural to date a few different people before finding the right one to marry.

So yes. Though you may feel like you are lost at the moment, all is ok. You may find a gentleman who is even more suitable for you. Who knows where you will be in future years? An adventure through time!

I know, that's the way finding your ideal partner goes.

This was not my first partner. I've had a few long relationships, involving living together, as well. Most of them lasted about four years. This one two and a half - but I was in my mind ready for the four years and beyond. It just didn't turn out that way.

So I've always tried to level up in a way. What I missed in one, was something to find in a next relationship.

With M., I knew I didn't have it all. But he was, after a long sad time, a light in my life. The moment I met him, he would go on a world trip with a Chinese friend he knew and who wanted him to be his green card (I can't say it better). He doubted her intentions and compatibility and fell in love with me. I had to fight over him immediately and so we confirmed our relationship.

I think that if that situation hadn't been going on, we would have talked langer about what relationships meant for us, before starting one.

In hindsight there was always something cringy, something that made me sleep with one eye open. Sad, because in being together, M. and I were great. Just not in intentions on the long run, I guess.

There will be a good, or even better match for me. Maybe not. Maybe I need to learn to be alone and strong in this life.

I have never been in a sexual relationship. Maybe I have missed out? I look at my parents who were married at a relatively early age. They were both different characters, but it worked so well. It worked because they were different.
Could it be that you two were a bit too similar?

Yes I often think that, that we are too similar to be together.

Yesterday he was here again, and today after lunch he'll be back. We worked on my kitchen all day, and he put all his appointments aside, nothing was too much - even pick up spare parts a few towns away, he would do it. We had lunch, dinner, and he just wanted to stay with me all the time.

I told him that my highest value in a relationship was 'thinking together' more than 'having sex'. He smiled and said that thinking together was his highest value, too. The rest of the day he kept saying it, 'come on let's go think together' .

We went to pick up dinner and had to wait a while, so we walked to our favorite bar and had a beer outside. I intentionally sat not too close to him, didn't touch or kiss him. 'I'm the lonely single now' he said, a few times. I said he'd never be lonely, because I was single too and always there for him. It was so sad. When we walked back I held hands with him again, he liked that. He needs to be on his way again, see to find a girl for his future plans. But he and I are so not into that yet. Yet we know our futures will drift apart.

Back in the car I said I had seen houses in our area, but didn't dare to move in together. In general, the apartment I bought ten years ago has grown on me so much, it is like my second skin. It is me. It defines my values, by the way it looks, and the way it is surrounded by nature. Living together in a different home with him would break me from my roots. 'We together could buy a great home' he said. He was sad I am determined on never leaving my apartment. I know. I said in any case, I could subrent it to friends, just keep it, and live with him elsewhere.

But I don't see that as an adventure, he is not keen with money. The balance in living in a shared home would be off soon, I know that. And of course, his home too, so he would invite Bob and Mia over. I won't ever let them in my home, or in my life again. His other friends are okay! But just those two are weird. More and more people are saying it, so I am not crazy or prudish or so. I btw just heard that the Emily girl who Mia was dating alongside Bob, ran off and ghosts her since. M. found that strange, I find that nothing but safe and realistic! smart girl, stay away!

During dinner we talked about emotions. I was a bit emotional and asked, if he never felt that way. Yes, he said, tearing up. 'I miss you a lot every day. I just handle it different. I block it out and drink beers.' I was so sad about that. He misses me too but pushes it away. He likes to be around me these days because being with me feels so good. He doesn't want to go yet he knows he must distance from me.

I've been talking to some old flames and friends lately. Trying to move on, to hang out with someone else than him. But nothing is as fun as him, and being with someone else and enjoying jokes feels not right.

Next week we'll see an online concert together, and then, and then... we've got some things together planned. I hope we keep seeing each other like this, because the missing is mutual.

It is difficult to give advice because on the one hand you two are an ideal couple, and on the other hand things are not perfect... I don't know what to say or what is best etc. He could be friendly with Mia for someone to talk to to get a better perspective...?

Sometimes men need that because they need to gather their thoughts when emotions and their thoughts can get carried away? I am guessing, but I do sometimes need someone to share like that. It is not to think bad of a person... Things can get carried away I do admit..., though I can tell that his heart loves you.

But in all these things it is both of your choices as to what is best. You two are like brother and sister together in that you are both so alike, and that is a good thing.

Finding the ideal partner... Deep down only you know that. Sometimes one can love someone deeply and it is not the right one.

But also, who is perfect? I don't have the answers. I am just exploring thoughts... Bouncing them back and fore for you to gather so they help you know which direction is right to walk in... As the being in love can cloud ones vision... But without the mists of love to reflect on, there are only views....

Uhmmm... A difficult one... Sorry if I am making things confusing. If I knew a definate answer one way of another I would be able to tell you.

I don't like heartache. I love happy endings... But happy endings need to be happy. No one is perfect....

I am thinking of an old farmer I know who was brought up in his younger years to work with horses. When he was young an older farmer said to him to pick two horses to plough the field with. He looked for the two biggest strongest horses he could find. The old farmer said "No. That one and this one don't get on together. They will be pulling in different directions..." and the old farmer brought him what seemed to be a missmatched pair, but they worked perfectly together because the smaller horse had the sense to lead and the larger one was keen to work with the smaller one and together they were able to plough the field. There was a lot of skill and experience the old farmers had. They used to plough land with horses that was steeper then tractors could plough. Even today they can't do that. Those horses were chosen because they were an ideal match and worked well together. They were not the strongest. They were not even the same size and weight! But together tney could pull the plough.

What you are looking for is someone who can plough through life with you and who is going in the same direction... The two powerful strong horses I mentioned first looked an ideal pair to pull the plough, but if they did, they would be pulling in different directions and all their strength and effort will not do much ploughing!

I know it is hard to give advice. There is no one solution. I'm just writing things off my mind on a dark corner of the internet and I'm happy with all response (be it personal experience, mention of having not personal experience, or just comfort) ...

I don't know where this is going.

Yes I understand he can be very well just good intimate friends with Mia, to share 'feminine things' with her. I have a dozen of male friends with whom I, since a few years, dare to exchange topics like sex, those things... it was formerly always very private... in my family. I've never been taught about the birds and the bees, I just read girl magazines from my older sister, and once in my youth, my mom tossed a book on my bed about it. We never talked, it's off limits.

Again there is no right answer. There is no pattern to hold on to to the future as well.
There was a pattern: a monogamous relationship. But we diverted from that.

Now we're on the wobbly path of 'best friends forever'.
From which people say: that never works, one of you is going to stab the other in the back with a replacement. Don't wait, move on, be the first to be on safe shores again. That is the pattern.
Will we divert from that, too? Or will I eventually get hurt? Wil it become ugly and will we regret trying it?

So many things I as an autist do not know, and truly keep me up at night.
I love safety and predictability.

He does, too, but that's a minor thing . It is a reason he keeps coming back to me these days, because being with me completely fits with his former patterns of being together with me. I use that, can't deny