DataSage’s Alpha Male Guide to Meeting Women (JULY UPDATE!!)

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I'm finding it's just an experience and comfort thing. While most kids are growing up slowly getting accustomed to dealing with girls, others are slowly either not doing anything or building up negative experiences to catalogue.

That advice is really stupid. If you have anxiety about talking with women, you don't gain more by doing nothing.

I don't know where that idea even comes from... I think they are applying an approach that works for women and applying it to guys.

neb, I think the problem is you do have to read the hell out of the situation because there are so many variables. Being forward and just walking up to someone and just saying hi for one could just as easily come off as real creepy like "Why the hell is this guy talking to me?" as it would possibly come off as confident. You can't even define it like "Oh well, if she's like that I don't think I'd want anything to do with her" because a few days forward or back and your reaction could have been just the opposite.

So, if you see someone who really catches your interest what it comes down to, unless people do just naturally react to you well, is to just let things happen and not try to jump into their sphere of social interaction to fast. I really like the idea of meeting people through people just because that ice that's there initially is just nasty stuff and it doesn't really matter how right that someone could be for you - its purely luck to just walk up to someone, chat them up, and have that work well unless your trying the pick-up artist angles where they in and of themselves can easily put you on the one track to being no one they'd be serious about.

David D kinda said there is courtship behavior which doesn't get you any but it makes you look like a marriage prospect, and then there are the guys who show cocky funny and other things which is get laid and forget behavior - as bizarre as it sounds physical pleasure and particularly sexual, while don't get me wrong - its nice, doesn't move me nearly on the levels that having a good relationship and actually feeling like I have someone consistent who I can place trust in for the long term would. Most of the time the guys who do just confidently walk up to a girl and sweep her are going to arouse her suspicions, since they're strictly going on externals, that they want to get their d---s wet; that can be good or bad based on whether or not its the truth and whether the guy really shows the kind of identity that makes it still work.

I totally agree with you, techstep, that getting to know someone on a deeper and more meaningful level is far more satisfying than seeing that person as a potential sex partner. I also agree that meeting others through others is a great way to start social relationships, but is not the only way. I don't think, however, that confidently walking up to a woman is a bad thing. Women do generally sense a man's motivation right away, especially when it comes to a man who is desperate and needy. But if that man is having fun, living his life, and is enjoying himself in a social situation, and approaches a woman he wants to talk to in a confident and relaxed fashion, I think that woman is going to be much more open to him. Keeping his sexual feelings down to a manageable level will also help him focus on the woman and not on himself.

Better not be,
'cause I know
just about NO ONE.

Going back to the guide and a potential flaw in an analogy DataSage made...

You can learn to ride a bike without falling. The problem is your parents were forced to learn through falling and so they didn't know how to teach you without falling.

All you need to do to teach a younger sibling or child this skill is to lower their bike's seat so their feet can touch the ground. Then they can go at their own pace and after they figure out their balance you can raise the seat so they can't touch the ground (and they already have their balance, so they won't fall).
You don't even need to buy/borrow a tricycle with this method... unless they are really young, can't understand the concept of pedaling, or there aren't any bikes in their size.

On a different note:
Calandale, if you like having white space so much, why don't you just reduce the width of your browser?

A note that might make or break people that use this: if you say "I need a quick female opinion," then don't introduce yourself, because that screams liar. When you say "my name's Jonathan," you are no longer wanting a "quick" opinion. You don't need to know the names of everyone you talk to to have a conversation, right? You can get it at the end when you get the phone number or when it seems most appropriate.

If you have seen the Pick Up Artist on VH1, you don't see them introducing themselves at the very beginning, they just want an answer and want the girl's opinion. I think part of the reason they don't introduce themselves at the very beginning is so when they say "I can only stay a second," it doesn't seem inconsistent. Of course I don't really know how they seem consistent when they stay along time and act like they need to join their friends and all, but comedians' routines don't really flow like a term paper, they start by talking about food and end up talking about being one of 12 people to walk on the moon.
As long as your funny it doesn't really matter if your conversation logically flows, so long as your material- and after you say enough of them, you- are interesting.

Unlikely to be a problem, with the average
person. That kind of approach (indeed, just
introducing yourself forcefully) would pretty
much throw anything I'd be interested on guard,
but people often introduce themselves before
saying anything else.

I think I have an answer for the women reading this guide that keep asking "what do I have to do to get a guy to date me?" I am not going to act like an expert when I haven't even tried to get a girlfriend yet, so I'll just try to help DataSage respond in more detail.

* Be around the guy a lot. This is based on what a girl did to a relative I know.
He went to England to see a girl he said (to her face) was a 3 out of 10 (with 10 being best) on the attractive scale (she looked like she weighed 250 pounds) and had sex with her because she had become a part of his life just by going to his house almost every day. This probably isn't the healthiest way to get a guy, since that relative didn't really have a reason to like her except she had become a part of his life... (he also was on the computer a lot when she was over, which compounds the problem, but also helps you since you now know that the guy doesn't have to be concentrating on you). I think she was higher on the scale later, but it wasn't because she had worked out or lost weight.
I wouldn't say marry the guy you do this to, but it can help you correct your perspective and boost your confidence. The guy won't think there's anything wrong, but his family will probably not like you for it (just because the guy shouldn't just go out with you because he feels like it's normal).
This took half or an entire semester (to give you a timescale).

* Realize your brains are wired differently than ours. While your brains analyze the emotion and feeling of the situation more than ours, we analyze the words and contents.
So you can't say something so it seems like we want you and have us backward rationalize it into we actually did ask the question and want you.
An example of a guy doing this is saying "oh alright, you can come in for a while" when he takes the girl back to his apartment to get her car or whatever.

* You definitely can use the confidence boosters of whatever the guy says, it's his loss if he isn't attracted to you... the definition of beauty isn't set in stone and isn't universal.
The only problem with this is guys are attracted first to looks, then personality; whereas women are the opposite, so it's a lot harder to keep him interested enough to get past his subconscious / upbringing / primal instinct, but as I said above, this can be done. It just takes a lot longer.

* Ask the guy questions if he comes up to you.
I really hate how it always seems like I must carry the conversation for five minutes and hear only the girl's opinion.
You can use this to s**t test the guy. When he asks for your opinion, reply normally but end with a question asking for more details.
I'm probably making it harder for the guys reading the guide, but we should be using something from our lives and be able to give the details immediately (I'm encouraging the use of canned material only to know how to construct your own material).

* Realize that some people paid $1000 to get training on how to interact with you, so even though statistically there are more women then men, the common perception is women are rarer than men. You just need to give the guys enough of a chance to show they are up to your standards (you should have standards, just like the guys should).

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNBi2PATwqc[/youtube]

Actually, slightly more men than women are born. the total population of women is larger because women live longer, elderly women considerably outnumber elderly men. so if you're a young heterosexual male, the odds really are slightly against you, it's not just perception.

Is this for real? I thought it was a prelude to an advert for male enhancement pills or something. As far as worthless advice for Aspies goes, this has to be running dead even with "just cheer-up".

On a good day it's a struggle for me to leave the house. With just a few people talking around me it can seem like an orchestra of pots and pans playing next to my head. How do you think I do in bars and nightclubs? Moreover, how am I supposed to "condition" myself to be something I'm not? Is that being honest to the person I'm interested in? Is it being honest to myself? Seems to me that even if I could pull it off, the illusion is going to get derailed fairly quickly. Sincerity and humility are virtues, not flaws. Maybe they haven't any value in a bar full of drunk twenty-one year olds, but I think they do in the real world.

But let's suspend reality for a moment. Say I somehow got over my limitations, donned my alpha male/pillaging Viking/well-oiled barbarian costume and hit the clubs. What is it supposed to get me? Laid? I can get that delivered to my house with a phone call and I don't even have to change out of my pajamas. What is most certainly isn't going to get me is a relationship with someone compatible.

The suggestion that all women can be manipulated at some primal biological is iffy as well. First, it assumes all women are the same and are looking for the same thing. Second, normal women don't want to be dominated. They want to be protected (both physically and emotionally). If "alpha male" characteristics are attractive to some women, it's because they can suggest (usually wrongly) that men who have them are good protectors.

^^^ Well said.

I'm not one to agree with this guy and much of what he says. I'm not an alpha male. I'm not ultra competitive, exude arrogance or what have you. I will not pull off the cocky-funny shtick because it just isn't me. And I abhor putting on acts for people.

And it's impossible to condition yourself to play off that you are not anxiety ridden and fearful around women when you really are. I'd rather be truthful to myself, than put up a facade and get the girls.

The most important thing is just to somehow lose all anxiety about talking with women. To be able to walk up to women in a non-professional setting and just talk and be sort of interesting.

Basically, just talking with women as casually and easily as you talk with friends. I am not sure how a guy changes in this regard, but pushing yourself outside of comfort zones. Not being to concerned that you may fail, in fact assume that you may fail but go and talk anyways.

Kurt, I agree totally and can tell you that I found this guide rather questionable though no doubt well-intentioned. I'm not much fussed on Groovy Druid's guide either but think it is better than this one.

I'd rather pull all my toenails out with pliers than go alone to a night club looking for a mate. I mean, it's so degrading and demeaning to go to a meat market and look desperate. As for "cocky", I can think of a word "dicky" to describe the way the guy acted in that video when he met the girls.

"Big box" bookstores.

-You have a bulit-in excuse to be quiet and bookish, so you can be more comfortable in your own skin.

-You can see what people are reading, so you can deduce things about their personality, and likewise with what section they're browsing.

-You have an instant conversation starter if you've read the same book/author/genre

-If you blow it, the intrinsically quiet nature of bookstore conversation and the divisions caused by the shelves means that only you and the other person know about it

-they usually have a Starbucks or something, so there's a possibility of an "instant date" that you don't have to travel too far to get to. Its a bit sneaky, but going from the "bookstore" part of the place to the "coffee shop" part registers in the mind as two dates, which helps to build intimacy

-women are little sneaks too. I know what you're up to. "Oh, I'm not doing anything, I'm just minding my own business, not checking you out and following you around, what woman DOESN'T like coffee table books about World War II?"

-the people there read books! Sweet Hallelujah!

Now, about the cocky/funny stuff. If it isn't you, don't do it. I LOVE wordplay, and a woman who can keep me laughing can make me do anything, so that's why I like it. With me it isn't fake.

Make no mistake - this is NOT about being cocky, this is about making jokes about cockiness. I have never met a woman that didn't like this type of humour. Will Ferrell in "Anchorman" cracks women up, for instance. It's about FALSE arrogance played for laughs, as if you're saying, "aren't people like that ret*d? What are they thinking?" It's a way to show your clever, analytical side, a skill. Napoleon Dynamite was right - women like skills, be they nunchuck, bowhunting, or humour. You can't just walk up to people and demonstrate them, that's arrogant and a turn off. It's about weaving subtle clues and hints into the fabric of the interaction, showing the truth of your character through the artificial construct of the conversation.

I think a great example of this type of humour's popularity are the Chuck Norris/Mr T jokes, that are so ridiculous and impossible they're funny.

One thing I came up with wholly by accident was the F You Gambit. I goad and tease a girl into saying "f_ck you", then I reply with mock indignation and say, "this is hardly the time or place!", "you wish!", "I hardly think we know each other well enough for that" or something similar. Riff on your natural tendency to make literal interpretations. Be over the top, because that firmly establishes that this is supposed to be funny.

What this does is negate your "weaknesses"; making fun of your own flaws, showing that you are comfortable in your own skin. If you're short, say that you play point guard for the Celtics; if you're ugly, say you're a male model (what, couldn't you tell? You have crappy taste in men!).

One more thing to add - a great opening line for either men or women, gay or straight, or even just a regular conversation starter.

"Excuse me, do you know how much a polar bear weighs?"

They will be dumbfounded, not knowing what to say, watching you for an explanation. Wait a beat or two to build curiosity and say...

"Enough to break the ice."

This is great because it's non-threatening, and also acknowledges the awkwardness we all feel when meeting someone new. Right off the bat you've validated the other person, you're saying, "yeah, I'm nervous, so are you, and that's okay. Let's be nervous together." You can literally watch someone drop their guard once you say this. This melts a lot of tension.

I still get massive anxiety when I approach a stranger, male or female, but I also know that my nervousness will be over with in a few seconds of conversation. Once the ball is rolling it gets more comfortable.

I agree that if you don't think you can do it forever from now on, don't do it. I personally am liking the responses I am getting from acting like I'm full of myself, so I'm molding my personality to incorporate it (mostly around women, but almost everyone acts differently around the opposite sex- I would never expect or want a guy to ask me to date him, but a woman...). I think I'm doing a good job as long as the girl's laughing (but I don't feel like it's a requirement to get every girl to laugh- if they don't like my humor, they never will, but as long as some do...).



My experience of telling a woman I'm the most modest man she'll meet and that she's always thinking of me is an example of this. It's absurd that you can be both at the same time, so it's somewhat unexpected that you'd say them. I eventually told her (a little to easily for those that follow David DeAngelo's advice) that I could say both because I know they're both true (because that's the way I'm starting to think) and they show I'm confident.



I like that one! I hope not too many people read this, because I just might steal it... but even if they do, it still will work just without the novelty.



Because none of you know who I am or who I'm talking about and I feel like relating what's happened with that woman I keep telling can't stop thinking about me...

We have a class together. In that class, at the start of the semester, I tried to get everyone whose name I knew to join me to play a game (she wasn't one of them). She and the other three girls in the class didn't, but sometimes my guy friends did.

Then I read about David DeAngelo's method, which is basically just be Cocky and Funny, while improving yourself. So, I started applying what he said.

In lab a week later, I loudly proclaimed every time one of the women ask me for help that all the women in the room just wanted me for my mind (which was true: both the women that had lab with me had asked for my help. Even after I made that comment, they still asked for my help. So they obviously didn't think I was a "dick") to start becoming the Cocky and Funny person I wanted to be.

A couple weeks later, I go to a masquerade / costume ball for the fun of it, dressed as the only thing I could think of that I didn't have to buy: Mormon Missionary (I had a tuxedo, collared shirt, and tie) and see her there (and another girl who a friend started dating before me, which isn't my territory to talk about), and bug her about not being able to dance (and get her campus phone number after the dance from a friend of hers, bug her about not knowing her own number, and get her name).

I then did something that might be creepy, I don't really know: I looked her up on Facebook & on the student directory (which could only give me her year and major in school or other things I already knew) and wrote down her last name in my phone (she had only put her first name in). I guess I'm just a bit compulsive about that, even though I didn't try to remember anything from either source (except she's within a year of my age according to Facebook). I don't think she knows I did this, and I don't care if she eventually finds out... I've bugged her about not knowing if she's creepy or not.

Then twice a week for two weeks I tried to get her to join me for Swing dance lessons, in which something always came up and prevented her from going (didn't change my plans, I was going to go to the lessons the entire semester anyways).

Last week she said she couldn't join me for dance on Tuesday, because she and I had a test on Wednesday (and something about studying), so she'd make it a point not to plan anything for today, Friday.

On Sunday, I decide to skip next week, so I'll be gone Friday, and get her to join me for racquetball (which I was going to join a friend for anyways). Both the lessons and racquetball things don't cost any money (except the masquerade ball, but I didn't pay for her fare into it). (I have decided I have enough skills that I don't need to pay to get a girlfriend... at least until we marry).

During the two hour lunch before racquetball, she comes over and asks when the game was again, so I just tell her to join me for lunch until the game. She complies. I introduce the friend I've been eating lunch with to her (as part of my plan), and start bugging her when her friends come over and she doesn't introduce them ("Are they good enough friends to you for you to introduce them to me?" I'd ask... about ten of her friends joined us spread over a 1.5 hour period...), and shook each of their hands when we were introduced.
Before this time, I had kept telling her she kept thinking about me even when I wasn't around. Eventually she asked me something which allowed me to say "I'm the most modest man you'll meet," to which she decides to ask me how I can insist that. A day later I reply "because I know it's true" (which it is true according to my thought pattern... since I've decided that all girls think of me constantly. I probably should have had her try to guess it, so her curiosity would be kept high for a while...).

And today I'm going home until after Thanksgiving, so we'll see what happens .

If you were wondering (which you probably weren't), I won "scariest costume" at that dance shortly before I asked her to dance, and got two girls to think I actually was a missionary... .