Shaming Tactics against males.

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06 Sep 2011, 3:37 pm

No, I am not that guy, I am not that handsome

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcW4jvGicLs&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]

Mindslave
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06 Sep 2011, 4:28 pm

"Men that are brave complain about the dating scene. Men that are cowards suck it up and don't say anything about it". Without having watched the rest of the video, this is the best quote of the entire lecture. I'm brave, so I IGNORE the dating "scene" because there are many different ways of doing things in life. If you are willing to go out into the dating scene, a place that is full of backstabbing and jockeying for position, and can't handle shaming tactics that are very much inevitable, then you won't last long because you don't belong out there.

Moog
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06 Sep 2011, 4:45 pm

It is Christmas, hanging out with the family can make you go all weird and angry and ranty.

I think he should stop hanging out in circles of 'The Secret' readers, problem solved, he can be single in peace

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lightening020
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06 Sep 2011, 4:49 pm

Yeah I generally agree with what he is saying....

I would like to add that his first argument about being happy first seems to be a conundrum. A certain amount of outside acceptance is needed first be it influence, friends, romantic lover. We could argue all day long whether the chicken or the egg came first, but how many guys or girls have no friends, no lover, and can claim that they are happy? I haven't seen any.

His second argument on confidence is something that I have felt about for a while. "Confidence" seems to be more of a buzzword now more than ever. Along with words such as "creepy" and "awkward". LOOK, there are guys that were born with just the right amounts of brain chemicals serotonin etc, the right levels of testosterone, among other things, and the absence of mental disorders or deficiencies. Its called 'NT" more or less. Those guys statistically have proven to be more successful over guys with some kind of deficiency in the fields of dating. This is science

The quiet introverted kid or the regular average outgoing kid. Who has more natural testosterone? Who is going to end up more confident when the dating game rolls around?

Some guys have anxiety, depression, among other s**t to deal with that would hurt all areas of life. Yes it is everyone's responsibility to better themselves and keep working to fix those issues, but the fact is guys like us are at a disadvantage.

A guy with AS, or an average NT. The NT is going to get chosen 9/10 times probably. The traits that they have naturally, are more socially acceptable as attractive. So yes it is very condescending to hear society say "be more confident", nobody who isn't AS or a related condition will know what it is like to live with it.

So in that respect, confidence can't really be defined. Confidence in girls eyes and society, is just a posture, a style of speech, a certain flow and transition.....All things resembling an NT syntax.

Does Rivers Cuomo, or Mark Zuckerberg strike anybody as "confident" people? No. Does Steve-O frum Jackass seem confident. Yes That is the dumb illusion of confidence in my mind.

Mindslave
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06 Sep 2011, 5:09 pm

lightening020 wrote:

Yeah I generally agree with what he is saying....

I would like to add that his first argument about being happy first seems to be a conundrum. A certain amount of outside acceptance is needed first be it influence, friends, romantic lover. We could argue all day long whether the chicken or the egg came first, but how many guys or girls have no friends, no lover, and can claim that they are happy? I haven't seen any.

His second argument on confidence is something that I have felt about for a while. "Confidence" seems to be more of a buzzword now more than ever. Along with words such as "creepy" and "awkward". LOOK, there are guys that were born with just the right amounts of brain chemicals serotonin etc, the right levels of testosterone, among other things, and the absence of mental disorders or deficiencies. Its called 'NT" more or less. Those guys statistically have proven to be more successful over guys with some kind of deficiency in the fields of dating. This is science

The quiet introverted kid or the regular average outgoing kid. Who has more natural testosterone? Who is going to end up more confident when the dating game rolls around?

Some guys have anxiety, depression, among other sh** to deal with that would hurt all areas of life. Yes it is everyone's responsibility to better themselves and keep working to fix those issues, but the fact is guys like us are at a disadvantage.

A guy with AS, or an average NT. The NT is going to get chosen 9/10 times probably. The traits that they have naturally, are more socially acceptable as attractive. So yes it is very condescending to hear society say "be more confident", nobody who isn't AS or a related condition will know what it is like to live with it.

So in that respect, confidence can't really be defined. Confidence in girls eyes and society, is just a posture, a style of speech, a certain flow and transition.....All things resembling an NT syntax.

Does Rivers Cuomo, or Mark Zuckerberg strike anybody as "confident" people? No. Does Steve-O frum Jackass seem confident. Yes That is the dumb illusion of confidence in my mind.

The difference between Mark Zuckerberg and Steve-O is that Steve-O has less to worry about, because there is less that he is responsible for. That is what confidence is at the end of the day, the absence of any remarkable stress. This is why some days we are confident and some days we aren't. The holy grail for women would be a guy that has a lot of responsibilities but doesn't seem to be stressed about them. Of course, there are a lot of artificial constructs in play, such as money and status, but that's not my point here. If you decide to date someone who appears to have a lot of stress, you are implicitly taking on their stress as well. Why would you take on extra stress if you don't have to? Unless there are other factors to offset that and make the other person seem more worthwhile, the answer will be no.

lightening020
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06 Sep 2011, 5:21 pm

Mindslave wrote:

lightening020 wrote:

Yeah I generally agree with what he is saying....

I would like to add that his first argument about being happy first seems to be a conundrum. A certain amount of outside acceptance is needed first be it influence, friends, romantic lover. We could argue all day long whether the chicken or the egg came first, but how many guys or girls have no friends, no lover, and can claim that they are happy? I haven't seen any.

His second argument on confidence is something that I have felt about for a while. "Confidence" seems to be more of a buzzword now more than ever. Along with words such as "creepy" and "awkward". LOOK, there are guys that were born with just the right amounts of brain chemicals serotonin etc, the right levels of testosterone, among other things, and the absence of mental disorders or deficiencies. Its called 'NT" more or less. Those guys statistically have proven to be more successful over guys with some kind of deficiency in the fields of dating. This is science

The quiet introverted kid or the regular average outgoing kid. Who has more natural testosterone? Who is going to end up more confident when the dating game rolls around?

Some guys have anxiety, depression, among other sh** to deal with that would hurt all areas of life. Yes it is everyone's responsibility to better themselves and keep working to fix those issues, but the fact is guys like us are at a disadvantage.

A guy with AS, or an average NT. The NT is going to get chosen 9/10 times probably. The traits that they have naturally, are more socially acceptable as attractive. So yes it is very condescending to hear society say "be more confident", nobody who isn't AS or a related condition will know what it is like to live with it.

So in that respect, confidence can't really be defined. Confidence in girls eyes and society, is just a posture, a style of speech, a certain flow and transition.....All things resembling an NT syntax.

Does Rivers Cuomo, or Mark Zuckerberg strike anybody as "confident" people? No. Does Steve-O frum Jackass seem confident. Yes That is the dumb illusion of confidence in my mind.

...And where do all of those factors for stress come from? Where do all of those issues stem from? Like I said scientifically, chemically speaking, the nervous system of someone with anxiety is different from someone who doesn't have more than a normal amount of anxiety.

True Mark Zuckerberg has more to concern himself with than Steve-O, but that doesn't take away the fact that as a person, as a businessman, as an inventor, he is an infinite amount of times more successful than Steve-O, who may not may not have much money at all, and has made himself famous by degrading himself.

If Zuckerburg and Steve-O were not famous and were just two regular guys, who would appear more confident? Judging on the areas of posture, speech syntax, social skills, style of clothes.

Steve-O choose not care about anybody nor himself. The thing that he does are entertaining, but that is all he is....a novelty.

Put them both in a club, and see who ends up getting more female attention besides being recognized, and tell me that isn't an indicator of different physical and verbal traits are more attractive .... > that is what I am trying to say confidence is.

Last edited by lightening020 on 06 Sep 2011, 5:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

MountZion
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06 Sep 2011, 5:23 pm

The men who are smart figure out how to play the game

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lightening020
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06 Sep 2011, 5:29 pm

MountZion wrote:

The men who are smart figure out how to play the game

I'm sure you have it all figured out right? Don't hold out on us if you have the secret.

Obviously the guys who don't know are the ones posting on the internet, instead of being outside the house. I know that much as the absolute truth at least.

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06 Sep 2011, 5:42 pm

lightening020 wrote:

MountZion wrote:

The men who are smart figure out how to play the game

There's valuable stuff on the internet, but it means nothing without trial and error at the end of the day. Too many guys afraid to take the L. I remember being this way. I'm still crap with girls but at least I'm not afraid to talk to them anymore :lol:

It's all a matter of all the attractive elements of your character being amplified and put on display (in a subtle manner of course) that will result in more attention. I've noticed this, especially being a musician, whenever I played piano anywhere I received feedback from a lot of girls - a lot of the time.

Cultivate different and attractive parts of your persona (we can all do it IMO), and pretty soon it will happen.

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lightening020
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06 Sep 2011, 5:51 pm

MountZion wrote:

lightening020 wrote:

MountZion wrote:

The men who are smart figure out how to play the game

What really does that mean? Get a hobby? Do something outside where there are girls present?

Girls have been attracted to me before, when I barely spoke a word to them, they just like the way I looked. This doesn't have anything to do with the ability to get into a relationship.

simon_says
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06 Sep 2011, 6:28 pm

It means talk to women and watch their reactions. Adjust your attitude accordingly. Charm is a skill you learn by doing and watching. It's not the golden ticket but you need some to play.

I didn't believe it when I was in my early 20s either. I thought that I would always be exactly what I was then. But that wasnt true.

Mindslave
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06 Sep 2011, 6:37 pm

lightening020 wrote:

Mindslave wrote:

lightening020 wrote:

Yeah I generally agree with what he is saying....

I would like to add that his first argument about being happy first seems to be a conundrum. A certain amount of outside acceptance is needed first be it influence, friends, romantic lover. We could argue all day long whether the chicken or the egg came first, but how many guys or girls have no friends, no lover, and can claim that they are happy? I haven't seen any.

His second argument on confidence is something that I have felt about for a while. "Confidence" seems to be more of a buzzword now more than ever. Along with words such as "creepy" and "awkward". LOOK, there are guys that were born with just the right amounts of brain chemicals serotonin etc, the right levels of testosterone, among other things, and the absence of mental disorders or deficiencies. Its called 'NT" more or less. Those guys statistically have proven to be more successful over guys with some kind of deficiency in the fields of dating. This is science

The quiet introverted kid or the regular average outgoing kid. Who has more natural testosterone? Who is going to end up more confident when the dating game rolls around?

Some guys have anxiety, depression, among other sh** to deal with that would hurt all areas of life. Yes it is everyone's responsibility to better themselves and keep working to fix those issues, but the fact is guys like us are at a disadvantage.

A guy with AS, or an average NT. The NT is going to get chosen 9/10 times probably. The traits that they have naturally, are more socially acceptable as attractive. So yes it is very condescending to hear society say "be more confident", nobody who isn't AS or a related condition will know what it is like to live with it.

So in that respect, confidence can't really be defined. Confidence in girls eyes and society, is just a posture, a style of speech, a certain flow and transition.....All things resembling an NT syntax.

Does Rivers Cuomo, or Mark Zuckerberg strike anybody as "confident" people? No. Does Steve-O frum Jackass seem confident. Yes That is the dumb illusion of confidence in my mind.

First of all, confidence has nothing to do with genetics. The genetic argument is a cop out and always was, because you are essentially saying "It's not my fault, and I can't change my genetics, so woe is me" That is NOT confidence, by the way. Second of all, how do you know that everyone on the Internet knows nothing of dating? This doesn't include you of course. I'm not a dating expert, but I do understand the interactions and why people are attracted to one another. I know this because I've seen it and I've observed it, and I've DONE it. That doesn't mean I can answer any random stupid question you direct at me. If you want that, go to a PUA forum. And as far as if Zuckerburg and Steve-O were both regular guys, I'm hoping you were implying that Steve-O would appear to have more confidence, because he would. Then again, since you brought up posture, speech syntax, social skills, and clothing style, I'm not sure who you mean. The thing you need to remember is that not all women are the same, but generally, Steve-O would appear more confident and he would get more women. Then again, I can't envision Mark Zuckerburg as a womanizer, so as far as "getting women" being considerate flies in the face of the materialism associated with being "good with women" And for the record, just because Mark Zuckerburg is "more successful" than Steve-O does not mean all areas of life. Being successful in corporate is not the same as being successful in dating. John Edwards, Arnold Schwarzenegger, the list goes on and on of famous and successful people who were "too successful" to be good husbands. Maybe you don't like Steve-O and you do like Mark Zuckerburg, but that shouldn't cloud your judgment on something unrelated to your own bias.

lightening020
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06 Sep 2011, 6:52 pm

Mindslave wrote:

lightening020 wrote:

Mindslave wrote:

lightening020 wrote:

Yeah I generally agree with what he is saying....

I would like to add that his first argument about being happy first seems to be a conundrum. A certain amount of outside acceptance is needed first be it influence, friends, romantic lover. We could argue all day long whether the chicken or the egg came first, but how many guys or girls have no friends, no lover, and can claim that they are happy? I haven't seen any.

His second argument on confidence is something that I have felt about for a while. "Confidence" seems to be more of a buzzword now more than ever. Along with words such as "creepy" and "awkward". LOOK, there are guys that were born with just the right amounts of brain chemicals serotonin etc, the right levels of testosterone, among other things, and the absence of mental disorders or deficiencies. Its called 'NT" more or less. Those guys statistically have proven to be more successful over guys with some kind of deficiency in the fields of dating. This is science

The quiet introverted kid or the regular average outgoing kid. Who has more natural testosterone? Who is going to end up more confident when the dating game rolls around?

Some guys have anxiety, depression, among other sh** to deal with that would hurt all areas of life. Yes it is everyone's responsibility to better themselves and keep working to fix those issues, but the fact is guys like us are at a disadvantage.

A guy with AS, or an average NT. The NT is going to get chosen 9/10 times probably. The traits that they have naturally, are more socially acceptable as attractive. So yes it is very condescending to hear society say "be more confident", nobody who isn't AS or a related condition will know what it is like to live with it.

So in that respect, confidence can't really be defined. Confidence in girls eyes and society, is just a posture, a style of speech, a certain flow and transition.....All things resembling an NT syntax.

Does Rivers Cuomo, or Mark Zuckerberg strike anybody as "confident" people? No. Does Steve-O frum Jackass seem confident. Yes That is the dumb illusion of confidence in my mind.

I actually don't care for either guys I was just making an example. I don't really know what you were trying to say with your retort. It seems like you are kind of half-agreeing with me, but i am not sure

And yes genetics do play a big role whether you want to admit it or not, and it has nothing to do with absolving the self of responsibility. Don't beleive me? Take a poll on how many guys vs girls here are single, and this has nothing to do with a guys vs girl war.

If AS/Autism, Schizophrenia, Cerebral Palsy, Muscular Atrophy, Dwarfism, unnatractive....etc ARE all genetic, and we don't need to prove that someone with those attributes are considered "Less attractive", then that is proof that genetics play a major role.

How many guys with AS can actually claim they are successful meeting and courting women, not just having had a couple girlfriends or just married, bUT actually can be successful with a wide variety of women?

Science and genetics dude they explain alot. Doesn't mean any one person is screwed for life, but it explains why.

Like how AS/Autistm can explain alot of our lives, thing that we have gone through. If it didn't then you wouldn't be here. If you you had AS, and never found out about it and also listened to "keep improving yourself', "be more confident" what good would that do?

The fact that you agreed that Steve-O would appear to be more confident, proves what I was trying to say in the first place. Why is he more confident?

Neotokyomushroom
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06 Sep 2011, 7:08 pm

I cannot reply to the rest because I don't understand it so much. But I think on the subject of confidence, it is the projection of confidence, real or not.

I will not go into my younger days on a public board, but projected confidence is mainly a show. other guys went down while I stood up.

Without an actual test, true confidence cannot be ascertained.

I went through some very unusual circumstances in my youth and I can truly say, confidence, you never truly know until you know.

It varies according to circumstance, but the people who truly have it are surprising.

This is not so much to do with dating, I did ok as the nice guy, not the "nice guy".

"Confidence" is what I know as a "fakeout". It's just an excuse for not being attracted to someone.

As usual I may be wrong though. I'm rarely correct on social issues. Whatever happens, happens.

lightening020
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06 Sep 2011, 7:17 pm

actually mindslave saying genetics dont play a role is a pretty arrogant.

You and me are both lucky that we are not in wheelchairs from some kind of spinal paralysis. If we were, we would STFU on the topic.

Just like NT guys who have no clue what we have to go through and our troubles shouldn't s**t on us

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06 Sep 2011, 7:19 pm

MountZion wrote:

The men who are smart figure out how to play the game

The smartest men play The Game by their own rules; only the wisest of women let them.

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