The Vegan Diet, Asperger's Syndrome, and Courtship Ritual

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Hypothesis: A sustained vegan diet has an adverse effect on male-to-female courtship ritual in Homo sapiens sapiens; furthermore, the deficits this diet causes especially impact persons with Asperger's syndrome (AS) and other autism-spectrum disorders (ASD) because of preexisting social-skills deficits. The impact to females on courtship ritual may differ.

Background: Persons with AS or another ASD present with a marked syndrome of deficits in three core areas: social skills (including verbal and/or nonverbal communication), scope of interest, and peculiarities of sensory perception and integration. It is the first dimension that concerns us in this thread. Those impacted by ASDs have difficulty initiating non-rote social behavior that relies on ambiguous social cues and context, the integration of diverse sources of information about the social environment, and a lack of imaginative empathy. We assume any condition contributing social-skills deficits has a cumulative impact, making the condition that much more severe.

Veganism is a lifestyle and ideology mandating consciousness about humankind's stewardship towards animals, eschewing all consumption of animal flesh or by-products. We concern ourselves here specifically with the vegan diet removing all meat, fish, crustaceans, eggs, honey, dairy products, and other animal derivatives from one's diet (hereon simply veganism) rather than the broader ideology. Veganism is known to correlate with higher risk of certain nutritional deficits.

Discussion: It has been found that veganism in males, ASD or not, can produce a syndome called "Low T" from a deficit of serum testosterone. Low testosterone hinders typical male courtship behavior, and we believe this is biological and not culture bound. Certain vitamins, minerals, amino acids, and other nutrients cannot be properly absorbed by the body coming from plant matter; it must come from meat, preferably rare and a little bloody. This hampers the body's ability to produce testosterone along with a subordinate place in the social hierarchy that further erodes testosterone production.

The result is the classic syndrome of Low T: shyness around women, irritability, sleeping difficulties, low mood and energy level, slouched posture, low libido, poor executive function (memory, time management and planning, inattentiveness), etc.

Conclusion: The author suggests a fix of adding red meat to one's diet to increase testosterone.

I'd be curious if the subjects in question taking dietary supplements (particularly, supplements for vegan diets). And if so, if there a difference between those who were and those who weren't. I'd also want to know how the various diets compared; some vegans are more careful than others about getting adequate nutrition.

And this is only made worse by the consumption of soy / tofu products, which many vegans use as a meat and dairy substitute. Soy contains high amounts of phytoestrogens, which could theoretically, in high enough concentrations, have the same effect as a hormone replacement therapy. Cases of juvenile gynecomastia (female breast development in males) have been reported after the external (!) use of lavender and tea tree oils (source), so this is not something that a man who is happy with his flat and bra-less chest and his ability to get the occasional erection would want to ingest.

You must know something the field of human nutrition doesn't.
There are no nutrients found only in animal products, let alone only in meat.

"It is the position of the American Dietetic Association that appropriately planned vegetarian diets, including total vegetarian or vegan diets, are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. Well-planned vegetarian diets are appropriate for individuals during all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence, and for athletes. A vegetarian diet is defined as one that does not include meat (including fowl) or seafood, or products containing those foods. This article reviews the current data related to key nutrients for vegetarians including protein, n-3 fatty acids, iron, zinc, iodine, calcium, and vitamins D and B-12. A vegetarian diet can meet current recommendations for all of these nutrients. In some cases, supplements or fortified foods can provide useful amounts of important nutrients. An evidence-based review showed that vegetarian diets can be nutritionally adequate in pregnancy and result in positive maternal and infant health outcomes. The results of an evidence-based review showed that a vegetarian diet is associated with a lower risk of death from ischemic heart disease. Vegetarians also appear to have lower low-density lipoprotein cholesterol levels, lower blood pressure, and lower rates of hypertension and type 2 diabetes than nonvegetarians. Furthermore, vegetarians tend to have a lower body mass index and lower overall cancer rates. Features of a vegetarian diet that may reduce risk of chronic disease include lower intakes of saturated fat and cholesterol and higher intakes of fruits, vegetables, whole grains, nuts, soy products, fiber, and phytochemicals. The variability of dietary practices among vegetarians makes individual assessment of dietary adequacy essential. In addition to assessing dietary adequacy, food and nutrition professionals can also play key roles in educating vegetarians about sources of specific nutrients, food purchase and preparation, and dietary modifications to meet their needs."

Futhermore,
I'd be interested in the evidence showing that veganism "produces" low-T in males,
as well as speculation as to the mechanism.
Arguably the very males most likely to go vegan ALREADY have lower levels of testosterone,
for the same reasons the vast majority of vegans are female.

Also,
soy consumption isn't at all synonymous with veganism.
Usually it's vegetarians who heavily use faux-animal-this-or-that,
because among their number are those who abstain from meat for health or environmental reasons or some such,
not ethical reasons (like vegans), which might evoke a disgust response to such things.

Same with omnivores- the standard American diet is deficient in all sorts of nutrients, yet OMNIVORISM is never blamed.


I'm curious what inspired the OP to create this thread?

Vegetarians are a tiny percentage of the population.
Vegans, a tiny percentage of that.
And vegans who are male...

I've been vegan for six years and have only met one male vegetarian, and he was the one who "converted" me.



Yeah. Now I'm doubting your seriousness.

Does the need for supplements not point out a deficiency in the diet, for example B12. Research has concluded that many vegans have suboptimal levels of said vitamin.

source



Which is also very bad for the health of any unborn or breast feeding childeren a vegan mother might have.

source



Many people benefit from dietary supplements, and since B-12 is something that can be supplied from taking supplements it would seem that given the availability of such supplements, a vegan diet would be no worse than any other. In order to put that study in perspective it would be necessary to take into account varying levels of access to vitamins and the overall quality of the diet and then compare that with corresponding omnivores. In terms of iron, I'm a vegan (a menstruating female at that) and I donate blood regularly; my iron levels are great. Apparently it's common for people to get rejected from blood donations due to low iron levels though, I can only assume that most of those people probably consume more meat than I do.

Also, my boyfriend has been a vegan for a good share of his life and the main deficiency he has had has been vitamin D. This is because he avoids the sun and in the past has not taken vitamin D supplements. He's doing a lot better now though.

I have encountered these stereotypical wimpy vegan guys around various bohemian scenes I've been in, but I think you might be overemphasizing the causal link. Many Aspie types identify with the victim in the cycle of predation (having been the victim in the social heirarchy of human society themselves) and become vegetarians for what they consider ethical reasons. It's also a popular choice for those on the spectrum who have sensory sensitivities, gluten and casein intolerance, and those whose "special interest" is diet and nutrition.

The traits you blame on lack of red-meat-derived testosterone can be effects, or comorbid traits, of autism ("shyness around women, irritability, sleeping difficulties, low mood and energy level, slouched posture, low libido, poor executive function"). Guys on the spectrum have trouble getting chicks, whether they eat burgers every day OR never let animal products cross their lips.

That being said, if YOU find that eating some meat makes you function better in this area, then you should listen to your body and your own experiences and eat it. Being flexible in your dietary choices gives you a wider pool of possible restaurants when eating out on a date, so it might help with your love life as well.

Abnormal low rates of testosterone can certainly cause lower libido (and less aggressive behavior etc) but if you suffer from that, a doctor will test you and then prescribe medication. - It wont be enough to eat a little meat. Testosterone, like other human features are distributed with great variation in the population which means that you can have fairly low rates of testosterone and still be considered normal.

This sounds like another "BS cure" for the autistic spectrum.

First of all, the quote I provided doesn't mention a NEED for vegans to use supplements. I believe it read "in some cases".
In any case....
The ADA speaks positively of supplements for all people.
"It is the position of the American Dietetic Association that the best nutrition-based strategy for promoting optimal health and reducing the risk of chronic disease is to wisely choose a wide variety of nutrient-rich foods. Additional nutrients from supplements can help some people meet their nutrition needs as specified by science-based nutrition standards such as the Dietary Reference Intakes. The use of dietary supplements in general, and nutrient supplements in particular, is prevalent and growing in the United States, with about one third of adults using a multivitamin and mineral supplement regularly."

Moreover, plants grown with organic fertilizer as opposed to in chemical-rich soil (which, um...used to be ALL the plants humans consumed) contain much higher levels of B12. To say that X group of people is more likely to be deficient in XYZ says nothing of the diet itself, and more of individual variation. Surely it's more than possible, if not easy, for omnivores to get phytochemicals, for instance, despite the fact that the SAD is sorely lacking in this and many other nutrients?

To assert there is some magical nutrient found only in animal products is literally contrary to decades of nutritional research.

Note what it says, "well planned." I mean, theoretically plants have all the minerals and vitamins you need. Fine. Just, meat has more per amount you eat. Meat is a nice "centralized" source. The need for most vegans to take iron supplements and B vitamin supplements supplants this fact.

Me personally, I've tried veganism/vegetarianism for a week or so at a time, just to try it out. I like lots of vegan food actually. I can cook it well, and really would prefer to live a lifestyle that's vegan, simply for it being cheap as hell.

That said, it doesn't work for me. I have like no energy without at least a little meat in my diet. And actually even more so, a little fatty meat in my diet. Your body needs cholesterol to make testosterone.

But, I recently found this out again. My mother hadn't been buying meat because we're tight on money, and the rest of my family is insane and eats only processed food. So, she bought bottled water and hot pockets over meat. Anyway, I felt completely terrible and irritable without meat. I don't know about everyone else, but I personally need about 100g protein a day to feel, like, good. Just the way I am. Now Valentine Wiggin, before you attack me and say I'm bullshitting about the 100+g protein, you have a very peculiar diet situation yourself, so please don't attack others for theirs.

Most dieticians recommend planning one's meals, actually...there is no "theoretical" about it: a diet of whole grains, legumes, seeds, nuts, fruits, and vegetables is bountiful in nutrients- no need for iron or B vitamin supplements here- I'd be interested in your implication that there are no vegan sources of these?

The funny thing about your cholesterol-testosterone claim is that I've eaten no animal products for six years and my testosterone has remained (as it was prior to veganism) sky-high....
It's worth noting that most people go into withdrawals after they stop eating something they've consumed, let alone heavily, for years if not decades. Such was the case with me. That's how I knew it was the right move. I experienced something similar when I cut out refined sugars.

I wouldn't "attack" anyone for saying they need 100+ grams of protein.
I'm just missing what that has to do with veganism.

All of that can also be caused by depression, among other things, which is probably why there is no official "low T syndrome" -- too non-specific.

It seems to be wholly-invented. It's certainly the new fad.

My only question is how do vegans get calcium since the do not drink milk?

Prolly cause milk isn't the only source of calcium.