Realizing my Aspie GF's stormy moods are sort of meaningless

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So as we've become quite a bit closer this past few months, she's become quite a bit stormier. It's usually something that happens near the end of our time together (we live about 45 minutes apart, she's full time student). We will be getting ready for me to drive her back, and something will invariably upset her, leading to a flare up, her running off, yelling, accusations of wrongdoing, etc. And then by the time we actually separate things are better ... then we don't communicate for a few days, and then some other thing will come up via IM or email (we don't talk on phone) and she'll be upset about something, usually something I said that was misinterpreted. It's always some sort of miscommunication - leading to her blowing up - yelling all caps that if I say one more thing she won't talk to me again, calling me this name, that name. First time it happened was about a month ago, I came on to this forum crying about it, received some great advice, some not so great advice, it was all helpful.

But that was then, and now is now. At this point, maybe I'm being naive, but I've come to realize that what she says in her angry moments really doesn't seem to matter one bit. As long as I don't get upset about it, as long as I take everything with a huge grain of salt, in other words, just let her fuming bounce off of me, it doesn't seem to make any difference in the bigger picture. This last time was so typical. A simple IM conversation started with her telling me she was stressed and grumpy, within minutes she zeroed in on something I said which rubbed her the wrong way and she asked me to clarify. Five minutes later she was shaking with upset. She is putting our whole relationship on the line - this to me occurs sort of like bringing a Nuclear Bomb to a rock fight .. is it really necessary to go there EVERY time something is upsetting to her, regardless of what it is? In my previous world, you talk about breaking up when there is infidelity, betrayal, family issues. Not because "you didn't know I was being sarcastic when I joked about this and that?". But that's really what her upset was about. To me, a very very small thing. But to her, it's the world.

And I feel terrible in these times, but have come to accept it really has little to do with me. So I let three days go by without contact, get in touch "do you want to hang out?" she replies within minutes ... "can we tonight? If not, how about tomorrow?" At this point, I've learned to not even mention the blow up, what's the point? So then, we get together, for the first 1/2 hour or so, she's a bit distant, transitions I think are really hard for her. Then she warms up(food helps), we do whatever, at times she gets incredibly open and wonderful, and then invariably when it's time to separate later, or next day, something comes up again usually as we are walking to the car. This can't be a coincidence, right?

And I guess this is the life of an Aspie, right? Lots of upset, lots of stress, big dramas, lots of pain, as her partner there really doesn't seem like there is much I can do other than try to not let it bother me, and not engage as much. I used to get all worked up about "Is it me, or is this a symptom of her condition?" But given that never one time has she turned down an invitation to get together, not even ONCE has she said "no thank you", at this point I'm just assuming her acting up has something to do with issues about separating and being apart.

BTW, do Aspies ever say stuff like "Thank you"? Do they every say stuff like "I appreciate you putting up with my nit picky demanding behavior"? She claims to be uncomfortable saying that sort of thing, but that I should understand that she is grateful just by the fact that she shows up again. Do Aspies ever really apologize, or do they just learn that they should say "I'm sorry" sometimes, but don't really feel particularly apologetic in those moments, just have learned to say the words?

So is being stormy just a big part of every NT-Aspie connection? She actually tells me the other day "you should be flattered that I trust you enough to let myself get angry with you. Other than my family, I usually NEVER let anybody see that side of me". Seriously? Wow, I mean am I supposed to feel like the luckiest dude in the world when you were there screaming at me YOU ARE SO STUPID, SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP YOU MORON. Were I to ever say that to a woman, I would expect her to never speak to me again, ever. But I really do understand that in the heat of the moment, these are just things she says since she has no other way of expressing the pain inside, that in those moments everything is going right past whatever filters are in place - and that were it not for the fact that we are messaging, she would never even remember saying these things. So these words, harsh as they may sound, really sort of don't mean anything. They mean NOTHING.

Seriously though, I'm just so very sorry that my relationship with her causes her as much upset as it appears to. All I know is that when we've tried talking about it after the fact, it very often causes another upset, and then rational discussion quickly goes out the window and it's all about getting out of the way. I really don't feel blameless here, but I do know that I can't change the fundamental person that I am, the things she gets angry about are more just me being me, than specific things that I am "doing" or "not doing". I dunno, I guess my question comes down to - is it wrong of me to not take her upsets seriously, not take anything she says during those moments seriously, and just assign them to her being who she is? I mean, I really don't think anybody in her life who is close to her gets a "pass" here - apparently this is the story with her family. She melts down at all of them at times. She alludes to her previous boyfriend and how they were violent with one another - I gotta believe these flare ups are the reason. He probably had no idea how to deal with it - invaded her space, etc, trying to "fix things". Bad idea I'm learning. She will fix it herself when ready.

This isn't insignificant. In terms of not being single, most of us here would agree you're lucky that your girlfriend is able & willing to interact with you. However, you're only imposing if you expressly ask her to explain it more simply. Just find a way to give thanks for her being outgoing, it's plain that that's unnatural for her.

Seems like you're a fast learner. This is good.

Re: Emotional flare ups.

I'm not always in control of my emotions. When I'm stressed, tired, exhausted, or feeling emotional to begin with. I can easily become overwhelmed. Or to put it another way. I lose control of my emotional stability. I therefore lose control of my mind, my rational thinking, myself control, my reactions, my sense of self and others. I lose it.

I think this is what she is doing.

Speaking generally, Aspies don't "get" sarcasm. If you're being sarcastic about infidelity, betrayal, family issues. These are all serious issues, not to be made fun of. If you're mentioning them (and pretending that it's funny), then you are probably thinking about it, and perhaps testing the waters for a reaction because in your mind this is what you want to do.

Do not joke about serious things. Deaths, divorce, mental impairment, stupid people ect. These are no laughing matter.

Re: the second half.

Just because it "apparently" doesn't have any affect. That does not mean it doesn't. Aspies often have a blank face stare. Therefor you're not reading anything in her face, that doesn't mean she is without emotion.

There are likely several things in play here. (One stated above).

Aspies have black and white thinking. Something that is over, is over. There is no point in bringing up old stuff that she has put behind her. So, once her melt-down is over and she's recovered, it's full steam ahead and looking forward to what’s next.

Aspies often have a very good long term memory. She'll likely remember everything you've ever said to her, and will think on them for hours at a time for days at a time. If you start to become inconsistent with your approach to her, she'll become suspicious. If what you say is inconsistent over time, she'll become suspicious, or accusing you of lying.

Saying thank you is a taught social nicety. Some of us have been taught to use it, some haven’t. For us, if you do something for us, it's because you wanted to and you did it knowing full well that you were doing it. It was you're choice to do so. These things don't always mean that I need to acknowledge it or thank you for doing it. I didn't ask you for it in the first place, it was your choice.

Trust for Aspies is like what? Breathing? for an NT.
Because of an excellent memory, black & white thinking, and being deceived and taunted at school. Trust means the world to us. You betray that and you're history. B&W thinking takes over and you will not be trusted again. No matter what you do, or what you say. You've proven you're worth already.

Hope this gives you some insight.

This is a little odd to me. Now, I'm pretty high functioning and my special interests involve/involved a lot of socialization (my best explanation/pop culture reference to NTs is that when I was 17, I was a white Abed Nadir) but this doesn't seem anything like normal withdrawal or a reaction to over-stimulation. Hell, I've had horrible meltdowns before, but they were either comically immature or silent to the point of creeping people out, and mostly about me being totally unable to handle what was going on in the moment. Accusations of wrongdoing when faced with separation? Constant miscommunications, despite what I can only presume are efforts to explain calmly and logically? Those don't sound like the MO of someone overwhelmed by a situation.



Now, I may be giving you a bit too much credit and you may actually be a total dick who talks his way out of saying hurtful or problematic things by pulling the "I'm just joking" card, but that seems out of character with the rest of your missive here. But, most of the time, even people who are oblivious to sarcasm don't go into a meltdown because someone used sarcasm and then explained said sarcasm when it went over like a fart in church.



Not only no but HELL NO. Well, maybe the stress, but that's mostly anxiety at how 30 years of systematically studying people (to the point of some small success as a stage actor) inadequately prepares you for actually dealing with them. There's a reason the most widely known caricature of Asperger's in US pop culture is a nebbish physicist who reacts poorly to almost any change in his routine. To the non-NT, most drama is either baffling or repulsive.



We do if we've been taught to. Sometimes you have to explain to us WHY niceties are required, and what their significance is/why we should play along, but this seems to be her trying to avoid taking responsibility for her behavior/explaining it and THEN insinuating that you should be OK with that, and if you aren't, then you're being too demanding.



No, it isn't. And that statement she made seems really manipulative, like she's trying to convince you that these behaviors (which you find deeply upsetting, or else you wouldn't be asking strangers on the internet) are positive. Again, you could be a total dongwash completely misrepresenting your side and these behaviors could be totally justified, but somehow I doubt it.





No, they mean something . . .



This may be rather prosaic and unromantic of me, but if it upsets her that bad she'd make good on her threats to break it off.



Again, I know everybody doesn't like to draw on stereotypes, but there's a reason the whole "Aspie=Robot" meme has any traction. I've been accused of being cold, unfeeling, etc. and being too rational, so someone blowing up a rational conversation and moving from the concrete (things you did or didn't do) to the abstract (what you ARE) and being upset at THAT is a bit alien.



The fact that you said "violent with each other" and not "he was abusive" (and tiptoed round what got Mr. Ex punched) makes me think RED FLAG. RED FLAG!! !

Look, I hate to bring up the A word, but I'm a survivor of domestic abuse and this pushes too many of my buttons to think this is just someone on the spectrum having trouble dealing with being in a relationship, especially the part about past violence. I'm not saying you're in the beginnings of an abusive relationship; I just think that given what you've said in this forum, you may need to check out some resources on abuse or talk to a professional about it.

(As for me, I went into a relationship that I though was beyond my wildest dreams with a complete blind spot to that kind of behavior, and it ended up with me doing things like lying to my mother and father about my black eyes and having to explain 8 year old emails, to someone I'd only known 2 1/2 years, at knifepoint. So if I seem to be jumping at shadows, it's because I have gazed into the abyss and it's given me a serious case of PTSD.)

It does give some insight, TY. Curious, while "Thank You" is a social "nicety" as you say, they are simply words that express a feeling, and that feeling is that of gratitude. When I feel grateful, I say the words "Thank You" to express my appreciation of somebody's kindness demonstrated towards me. It may be as simple a kindness as taking a few seconds to hold a door open for me. I say "Thank You" to acknowledge the kindness. Yes it was another person's choice to extend you the kindness, I guess my question is do you not feel gratitude when somebody extends you a kindness?

Why is it so easy for my girlfriend to verbalize her unhappiness with something, but to get her to say something kind is literally like pulling teeth? Early on in our relationship I just never would have believed she liked me at all -- it took my leaving her for her to finally admit that our relationship mattered to her - and even then she told me in an angry way - like of COURSE I should have figured it out - if she was willing to hang out with me it meant that I was important to her. Only now, nine months later do I finally understand - her "approvals" are silent - but her disapprovals are very loud.

Why is it so much easier for an Aspie to voice discontent then to voice approval? Why are compliments so rare? For my GF, it's almost as if expressing appreciation is somehow losing "face" - admitting she "likes" a person is almost like a "confession" of sorts. It took me awhile to understand her "secret" approval behavior.

Is there really something to her telling me that I should feel "honored" that she is willing to get angry at me without holding back? According to her, if she didn't care, she would not let me see her anger. So what does this mean, the angrier she seems to be with me, the more she cares?

As a woman with Asperger's, I identify a lot with the way your girlfriend is feeling.

Let me start by saying that you're absolutely correct in assuming that her moods have absolutely nothing to do with you. Also, sometimes aspies will only have meltdowns around people who they trust, because we feel like we have to put on a brave face in front of the rest of the world. It's also not uncommon to have meltdowns around specific times/triggers.

To use myself as an example, 99% of the time, nothing my family members (who I live with) say or do is the cause of my moodiness. Sometimes it's outside things, like something I saw on the internet, or internal things like worrying about something that's important to me but may not be to others (usually it's things regarding my special interests). Most of the time, I don't understand why I feel the way I do. Either way, it's almost never my loved ones' faults.

Just about the only time I have meltdowns is when I'm around my mom, who is my most trusted person. There are periods of time (up to a week or more) when the only interaction I'll have with her is her trying to talk me out of a meltdown. Like I said earlier, it's because I feel comfortable enough around her to let my guard down in front of her. Also, my meltdowns tend to happen like clockwork - they usually start within the first hour or two after she comes home from work.

As for thanking and apologizing - as someone else has pointed out, saying thank you and I'm sorry are social skills, and due to aspies' lack of such, some of us may not always know when we should say those things. I have been taught from a young age to thank and apologize, having observed my mom do it all the time (though there are many times when I forget or it may be difficult for me). I realize that many mothers wouldn't stand for my behavior and I openly acknowledge that I can be difficult to deal with at times. Therefore I do occasionally thank my mom for putting up with me and apologize for being difficult. There are a number of reasons why your girlfriend might not be apologizing or thanking you: either she forgets to do it, it's difficult for her, or she may not even realize that the situation warrants it.

As for your girlfriend acting like everything is OK the next day - I have been told that I do that too. My mom has a saying, "With Asperger's, every day is a new day." Meaning that things that bothered us one day may not bother us the next, or vice versa, or we may have resolved an issue, but it may flare up again at a later time.

My advice to you would be to continue being as patient and compassionate towards your girlfriend as possible, even if you don't understand why she behaves the way she does (it's likely that not even she understands her own self). However, if you don't think you can cope with the meltdowns on a regular basis, I would consider ending the relationship. If you're in a relationship with a person with Asperger's, you're not just dating the person, but their syndrome too. It comes with the territory.

sounds like a minefield to me.

Sometimes. Most of the "kindness" shown is so trivial it barely regesters on my conciesness. Like standing in an open door for me to walk through. I never understand why people do that. I say thanks, but I'd honestly rather open the door myself.


There is a common phrase spoken here on Wrong Planet. "If you've met one Aspergers, you've met one Aspgergers".
I could speculate based on my own self, but I doubt I'd be correct with regard to your girlfriend. I simply have the condition, I'm not an expert on it, or her. Sorry.



You are creating a plausible scenario, then believing that it's true and that it explains her actions. It does not. You've created a plausible scenario, nothing more. I don't know, and you don't know, if this is true. I find it unlikely, and I don't the reason either.

I think that I do it to some extent also, but I'm also largely unaware of doing it. Only when my female freind gets upset at me do I find out, because she accuses me of the same.

And I've been thinking about this post for the last couple hours while I've been working. I agree with IdahoRose, you might not be the person suited for the roll of boyfriend / husband (whatever you think you're doing). I believe two in a relationship should mesh better than you two seem to be doing.

I don't doubt you like her, and she seems to like you. That may be as far as it can go, relationship wise. I have concerns with the way you dismiss her melt downs.

Melt downs are tough emotional things. They are not nothing, they are not caused by nothing, they should not be treated as nothing. However, she may not want to talk about it.

For some of us, emotions hurt. Litteraly, they hurt us. Trying to explain how I feel, and why I'm upset hurts me. There is pain involved, it hurts me. She may be the same, or different. I don't know.

So much of her upset focuses on my words. This is foreign to me, in the past women in my life have had upsets because of ACTIONS I have or have not taken. Did I flirt with her friend ? Did I not do enough for her birthday ? Etc. actions really do speak louder. Such is why when she screams mean things during a meltdown I have trained myself to pretty much ignore the content - it's just her fight/flight thing kicking in ... In these moments her brain is primal - attack -attack - attack.

Sadly. I see no way this gets "better". It s what she does with those in her inner circle. My way of coping is to stay out of her way, not engage in any sort of argument, not hold up any sort of mirror, not try to analyze. Literally my goal is to keep out of her way, always let her know I'm right next door and not planning to leave her anyti,e soon, let her calm herself down,and suggest that we do nothing in particular the rest of the day but sit around the house. As far as I'm concerned, the meltdown never happened. She doesn't bring it up. The first to,e there was a big discussion. Not any more, what is the point. I've asked her to try toward me if a meltdown was in the works, and to say the word "yellow" as a safe word , cot let me try to change the conversation flow, that pressure was building. So far this has not worked.

I'm not sure talking snout the trigger is meaningful . It's not about the trigger.

This^^^

If you have to walk on eggshells around her (Aspie or not) there's a problem with the relationship. If she's using her Aspergers as an excuse to be an emotionally unavailable and unrepentent jerk to you then that is not ok in the slightest (it gives all of us a bad reputation.)

Just because she is an Aspie doesn't mean that all accomidations need to be one sided. I know we're only getting your side of the story, but it sounds like you're bending over backwards to accomidate her but she's not willing to do the same. Realtionship are a give and take, if you're giving and giving and not getting anything back, there's no way it will end well. You need to talk with her about the issues and insecurities you are having. Maybe write it in a letter or email.

Are you sure it's just Aspergers she has? Sounds like some elements of Borderline Personality disorder may be comorbid as her extreme moods sound very similiar to an ex I used to date.

I'm not going to try to diagnose, especially something as complex as multiple things going on. In any case, Yeah, agree walking on eggshells is no good. Actually it's more like walking around landmines, I never know which step is going to cause something to blow up. The blowups occur so quickly as of late, no warning. Boom.

Bending over backwards? I don't really think of it that way. I'm learning what it will take. I keep reading stories about NT-Aspie relationships - it takes a lot of "looking the other way". Mostly the stories are NT female with Aspie Male - I'm not sure there is a difference - other than the sex thing. What I mean by the "sex thing" is that so often sex is a sort of "get out of jail" card that females have in reserve - plenty of men put up with bad behavior in their partners as long as sex is on the table. Not true in all cases, obviously, but it's true in a LOT of cases. That's why there is really no female equivalent of the "dog house" that men get placed in by their female partners when she feels that he has "mis behaved". All men have been in the "dog house", we know what it's like. There really is no functional equivalent, at least not with women I have been with. I used to joke with an ex girlfriend about putting her in the "cat house" and she would laugh and say "that's fine, I can just purr my way out whenever I want". And it annoyed me that she was correct. So yeah, I'll get upset or annoyed at my GF, and she doesn't like it very much, and then knows instinctively what to do to make things "better". I don't have those tools when she gets upset with me - it just doesn't work the same way, lol.

From your email, I'd run to the hills.

I had one ex like that, many years ago. It only takes one. I could never treat anyone in this fashion - and I will not be treated in this fashion. I don't care if the other person has whatever syndrome. She was incredibly loving and passionate on occasion; quickly, I realised that I didn't care, as I lost respect with the person she was.

I don't think what you are saying is symptomation of Aspie-NT relationships. As the post above says, it could be something else. Clearly there are anger management issues involved. Has

From what I see, her anger is allowing her to dictate some of the terms of the relationship. It is following her rhythm, her way of thinking. It seems to me to be a power and control mechanism. I don't see how behaving so awfully to someone you care about is a compliment - no, you are just getting to see a horrible side of her, that she cannot bother to contain.

Interestingly, though, you say her mood increases with food. There could be some underlying blood sugar problem. Or something like caffeine/sugary drinks contributing to dips in mood.

From my experience, I'd end it straight away, unless she was willing to get help - and demonstrated how serious she was. I don't think your relationship is going to get easier; you've got to draw a line somewhere. It's possible she'll be throwing things at you and striking you soon.

@SpecialGuy

Okay, first off, she seems to be a Language-Nazi type. The majority of aspies i believe have used 'aspie-focus' to become language perfectionists. 'Actions' involve too much emotion and body language. Actual verbal language contains less emotions, and ZERO body language (usually). She grasps language better.

The reason blow-ups happen near the end, is because most aspies can average about four hours of social contact until temporary burnout occurs. When burnout, an aspie sucks even more at social skills. The only tools/method of communication left is LOGIC. She will zero in on a statement (rarely will it be an action) and find something logically wrong with it. You probably used a figure of speech, or you implied something, or you were joking, or being sarcastic. The misunderstanding arises because she has missed the emotional context, and whatever you said, when taken literally, is offensive, in a logical sense. Normally she'd debate with you, however by the end of a visit, she's burnout. Confusion + Anger = Yelling. She knows better than to nitpick... when she's NOT burnout. You probably need to get her to ask beforehand. However, this is all likely a coping mechanism. She learned to trip-out on people so she can vent out her burnout.

Most aspies don't ALWAYS say yes to social contact. We pace ourselves to avoid a social-overload burnout. Basically, it takes large amounts of energy to understand a social situation. Its about three times as hard for us, if you want me to guess a specific number.

As for apologizing, you technically were the one who used inexact language. She yelled. You did not intend to use inexact language, she did not intend to hurt your feelings via yelling: Balance. <--- Current problem. No apology exists here.

Classify: Yelling = Attacking., Incorrect speech = Unavoidable because you are not aspie. Burnout = Aspie. Initiating an attack DOES NOT EQUAL aspie. Therefore, an apology is to be given.

You won't likely get an apology from an aspie unless they know EXACTLY what they're apologizing for. A big issue, is that since aspies are bad at social skills, and this is fact, its laughable to apologize for lacking social skills.

This 'yellow' system will be a failure, because she will have lost control of emotions by the time warnings must be given. Get a stopwatch. If you keep a chart you should be able to time her and see where the breaking point is.
She's been using the burnout cycle for years, possibly decades. I'm not sure it's replaceable. However, aspies often use 'aspie-focus' on partners. She'll get to know you better.

She needs conflict in order to vent OVER-EXERTING herself, socially. She pushes herself too hard.

Such a bandaid solution. Sadly, the best venting method is someone close to you.

Here's why this may have all started: Abusive EX abuses her in some way ---> he can now be yelled at ---> he is yelled at ---> GF has CORRECTLY vented on him ---> she feels better.

You say something strange ---> you can now be yelled at??? ---> You are yelled at ---> she has incorrectly vented on you ---> She feels better.

In her mind, everything is going fine. I don't know what's she's supposed to do differently.

The: Social --> Burnout ---> Yell --- > Feel good ---> Social ... Endless Loop is a very addictive 'drug'.

All the focus on the threads you have posted about your girlfriend centres solely on her Asperger's. However, in your first post about her, you said that she had told you "about a life of Asperger's, as well as some early childhood abuse stuff."

It seems to me, that many of her behaviours are directly related to childhood abuse which you don't seem to be taking at all seriously, or at least which you seem only to have mentioned once quite casually.

I was sexually abused as a child. I am now 45 and I am going through some pretty intensive counselling to address the ways in which it has affected me and particularly how I relate to others and respond to situations which in some subconscious way remind me of the abuse. That your girlfriend is only 21, and as an Aspie, most probably younger than that in terms of maturity can only exacerbate the problems caused by abuse.

In short, I think you are mistaken in attributing many or most of the issues you and she are facing to the Asperger's, when childhood abuse may well be the more likely cause of her difficulties.

Last edited by Marcia on 04 Oct 2013, 4:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.

LeTech brings up some interesting points. Since you are NT you won't be aware of just how different we are. Not including comorbid conditions which do occure quite often with Aspergers.

We lack social skills, our principle means of communication is vocal. With age and practice we can pick up facial expressions. But that is about it. We use language to communicate, almost exclusively.


You did say you joked about relationship issues. Aspies take things litteraly, and use the dictionary meaning of words. If you've been lazy with meaning, or joking in bad taste expecting her to laugh at the absurdity, you'll be very wrong.


I would put that at 2 hours personnaly. I get exhausted and my mind collapses. I can't process any more input. Thanks everybody, I'm going home now.


I'm an Aspie who shuts down. I'm not familar with this method, so my advice to you is tailored for my responces (ie: it may not be appropriate).