Keeping up Appearances
RetroGamer87
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Joined: 30 Jul 2013
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I used to be happy being single. Then people teased me for being a 23 year old virgin. I Googled "how to lose your virginity". Most of the articles were directed at women but I found an article, aimed at men that suggested I get a girlfriend first. Soon the question became "how to get a girlfriend".
The answer was dating sites! I read through many profiles and many said they want a "man with direction" or a "man with a good job" or "must be either in work or university" or "not a lazy centrelink bum". And there I was with my easy part time job. No direction. Most of my income came from welfare.
I became very depressed. I started comparing myself to other people. People with jobs. People who went to university. People with girlfriends. People with wives. Some married men were younger than I was. Now 26 I still hadn't had my first girlfriend and they were already married. I started obsessing over how old people were when they reached certain milestones. In my mind, I not only had to do everything, I had to do it while I was still young. To reach these milestones after the "proper age" was shameful in my eyes.
I planned to go to university and get a real career. First it was only as a means to get a girlfriend but what started as a means to an end soon became a goal in itself. Not just because the girls I wanted to date expected it but because my wealthy aunt blamed society's ills on welfare recipients. I didn't want to be the cause of society's ills in her eyes or in anyone's eyes. In the end I leapfrogged the university part. I was an affirmative action hire.
I now had a job the women would respect yet I still didn't have a university degree. I attempted to combine study with full time work but it proved to be too much. I never had time to rest. I even failed a subject in the second semester. I dropped out and focused on the job. Started working overtime.
My workmates, all younger than me, starting buying houses. I was still renting. I couldn't buy a house. Still can't. Most of my money goes on rent. I managed to save $10,000 but that may have to go on surgury. In a few years I could save it again but that will push back buying a house by that many more years. They all bought houses in their mid-twenties and I'm thirty and not halfway there. Setback after setback. Always some unforeseen expense. Like the need for surgury.
But... Why do I need to buy a house? Because a man must own one? Because real men don't rent? Why must I own a house when I'm happy in my apartment? What if it's all just keeping up appearances?
Why must I get a degree when I already have a fulltime job? For the sake of keeping up appearances? Why did I even get this job in the first place? For the sheer fun of it? No. It's very stressful. To keep up appearances! Why did I even want a girlfriend when I was happy being single? To keep up appearances!
![Image](https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51eR22MKLBL._SY445_.jpg)
Richard and Hyacinth are like the two warring halves of my personality. One side wants to better than anyone else and the other just wants to focus on practical things.
Yes I'll admit those things have other benefits. The younger I am when I buy a house, the younger I'll be when I finish paying off the mortgage. For this reason it's better to buy one at 25 than 35. The job gives me money and it's good that I'm not a burden on the taxpayer.
Sure I enjoy having a girlfriend some of the time but some of the time I feel nostalgic for the days when I was single. The days when I could spend the whole weekend by myself. I love being alone. But people might think I'm a loner. That wouldn't be keeping up appearances.
Some days when I'm with whichever girl I'm dating at the time, when I want to be alone, I feel like an aromantic man pretending to be normal. On some days I even lose interest in sex. It becomes routine. Mechanical.
Sometimes when I'm at work I feel like I don't belong there. Like I'm not smart enough to have that job. I guess at least 49% of people have to be below the median. Is it bad if I'm in that group.
They say you shouldn't compare yourself to other people but it drove me to success. What if it was just keeping up appearances?
At the moment I'm dating a Chinese girl Ting Li. She's nice and sweet and kind. Her attitudes differ from Western attitudes. Westerners say money doesn't buy happiness. Ting Li says more money means a better life. Westerners say not to compare yourself with other people. Ting Li's attitude is to look at other people and try to emulate their success.
I wonder which attitude is better? The Western attitude or the Chinese attitude? The Western attitude seems kinder but sometimes it feels like empty platitudes. Maybe the Chinese attitude is more practical.
The stereotype is that they work hard, study harder and are very frugal. I can confirm that they work hard and study hard but they are not always frugal. Conspicuous consumption is the rule for east and west alike. The Chinese are also concerned with keeping up appearances.
Should I keep trying? Harder and harder? When it's mostly just to keep up appearances? Or should I let myself go?
_________________
The days are long, but the years are short
This is what certain people here giving advice don't understand.
If you live for.yourself.and dont focus on improving your attractiveness you'll get.nowhere.
Someone here said I need therapy if I want to go to.university purely to improve my attractiveness and dating chances.
I guess being an at the moment lazy guy who just does housework for his family and.some volunteering would.make me.more attractive if its "genuine".
F*ck that, people get careers they hate all the Time because they decided o follow The.money rather than their heart.
I'm sure the CEO who hates his job has no problems getting a date.
I don't know Retro gamer . Which one is the lesser of Two evils for you?
Doing what YOU want even if it won't improve your dating chances or doinh what society says you must so you can get a girlfriend?
I always thought you already chose the second, sounds like you're more on the fence than I realized.
RetroGamer87
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But girls like money too so why not have both. Ting Li is a sweet girl but she wants me to earn over $100,000 per year. I don't really blame her.
She says we'll have a better quality of life with that money and she's right. For now I only get just over half that much.
I should try to improve for her because she is trying to improve for me. I asked her to go on a diet and she agreed. When I asked my Australian ex gf to go on a diet she started crying. Even after she already said she was fat. I think she just wanted me to say she's thin but I refused to lie. The Chinese girl has a more practical solution. Dieting. More practical than ex gf's solution for me to say her weight is fine when her weight was very unhealthy, class II obese, nearly class III.
Since Ting Li gave up cake and ice cream for me, I can give up my evenings and work 12 hour days for her.
Doing what YOU want even if it won't improve your dating chances or doinh what society says you must so you can get a girlfriend?
I always thought you already chose the second, sounds like you're more on the fence than I realized.
_________________
The days are long, but the years are short
Think aBout how far you are willing to go to make sacrifices for her sake, and how far she must go to satisfy you.
Ideally balance would be best but how balanced is up to you.
It may START with earning $100,000+, but once you reach this goal.she may want you to reach another, and another and another and another.
And how.many more hours are you willing to work, how many more dollars to save per fortnight, how many more cars to buy, expensive TVs and couches, etc.
You do sound ambitious but ask yourself how ambitious you are.
Well there's two questions.
How ambitious am I WHEN nobody cares.
How ambitious am I when its for a woman and to "keep up appearances".
People have a lot of standards, both rational and not. If money's important to YOU, then go make them. If it's just for keeping a girl, then consider if it's worth it. Sure, more money means that everything gets easier, but if you're already happy as you are, then trying to make more money will probably just be a pain.
You don't need to have the exact same standards in a relationship, but when they differ too much, it can be a big problem.
If it helps at all, my boyfriend is In his 30's, unemployed, haven't done anything that counts as an accomplishment in the current society, has no goals and no direction. He had given up on getting a girlfriend because most women his age have those standards you're talking about. They want to settle down, have a good economy, get kids and a house. That is just not for him.
As for me. I didn't think I could get a boyfriend because I'm poor, dress like a hobo (was actually homeless at the time) and socially handicapped. Also without goals and direction.
Neither of us live up to the average societal standards, and we don't care about them either. It was a lucky coincidence that we became friends, and eventually a couple. And we're quite perfect for each other. We both enjoy being alone and have decided to move apart because we will be happier with each other that way. We couldn't care less about how well the other is doing materialistically, or how they look. As I said, I dress like a hobo, and he has no sense of fashion either. We are both of average attractiveness.
The way I see it, our reasons for liking each other are a lot better than just material or practical reasons.
We are both poor, worthless, losers. And we are happier together than we've ever been with anyone else.
All I'm saying is that not everyone cares about houses and money (or girlfriends). If that's what you want, then it's great that you have something to strive for. If you're content with what you have, why bother trying to change it?
There are girls in the world who have different priorities.
But obviously, if you ask someone to change, they have all the right to ask the same of you. My point is just that it's a lot more comfortable when you feel no need to change each other.
RetroGamer87
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There's really nothing wrong with the OP's attitude although it's not for everyone. Putting demands on yourself can lead to satisfaction if you meet those demands. Not everybody can be happy simply staying with their comfortable daily routine. Also I can understand as a great deal of my life is spent around immigrants, and what the OP reports is typical of how immigrants plan their lives. Additionally, having money can seem unimportant when you're young, but will become more important later in life. Immigrants understand that as they've seen their families struggle to succeed in a new country. Much better than planning to spend the rest of your life in a darkened room drinking cheap beer and playing GTA while hoping that the latest populist politician will send all the money-grubbing immigrants home and put their forfeited cash into your deserving, white, native English-speaking hands!
Ideally balance would be best but how balanced is up to you.
It may START with earning $100,000+, but once you reach this goal.she may want you to reach another, and another and another and another.
And how.many more hours are you willing to work, how many more dollars to save per fortnight, how many more cars to buy, expensive TVs and couches, etc.
You do sound ambitious but ask yourself how ambitious you are.
Well there's two questions.
How ambitious am I WHEN nobody cares.
How ambitious am I when its for a woman and to "keep up appearances".
There’s tons of forum posts on other forums from women who want to leave their bf cause he’s not ambitious and climbing the career ladder. It’s not that he doesn’t make enough but that he’s happy where he is.
I don’t get that but I’m not ambitious. Why can’t people just be happy where they are instead of constantly moving up?
The_Face_of_Boo
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The_Face_of_Boo
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The answer was dating sites! I read through many profiles and many said they want a "man with direction" or a "man with a good job" or "must be either in work or university" or "not a lazy centrelink bum". And there I was with my easy part time job. No direction. Most of my income came from welfare.
I became very depressed. I started comparing myself to other people. People with jobs. People who went to university. People with girlfriends. People with wives. Some married men were younger than I was. Now 26 I still hadn't had my first girlfriend and they were already married. I started obsessing over how old people were when they reached certain milestones. In my mind, I not only had to do everything, I had to do it while I was still young. To reach these milestones after the "proper age" was shameful in my eyes.
I planned to go to university and get a real career. First it was only as a means to get a girlfriend but what started as a means to an end soon became a goal in itself. Not just because the girls I wanted to date expected it but because my wealthy aunt blamed society's ills on welfare recipients. I didn't want to be the cause of society's ills in her eyes or in anyone's eyes. In the end I leapfrogged the university part. I was an affirmative action hire.
I now had a job the women would respect yet I still didn't have a university degree. I attempted to combine study with full time work but it proved to be too much. I never had time to rest. I even failed a subject in the second semester. I dropped out and focused on the job. Started working overtime.
My workmates, all younger than me, starting buying houses. I was still renting. I couldn't buy a house. Still can't. Most of my money goes on rent. I managed to save $10,000 but that may have to go on surgury. In a few years I could save it again but that will push back buying a house by that many more years. They all bought houses in their mid-twenties and I'm thirty and not halfway there. Setback after setback. Always some unforeseen expense. Like the need for surgury.
But... Why do I need to buy a house? Because a man must own one? Because real men don't rent? Why must I own a house when I'm happy in my apartment? What if it's all just keeping up appearances?
Why must I get a degree when I already have a fulltime job? For the sake of keeping up appearances? Why did I even get this job in the first place? For the sheer fun of it? No. It's very stressful. To keep up appearances! Why did I even want a girlfriend when I was happy being single? To keep up appearances!
![Image](https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51eR22MKLBL._SY445_.jpg)
Richard and Hyacinth are like the two warring halves of my personality. One side wants to better than anyone else and the other just wants to focus on practical things.
Yes I'll admit those things have other benefits. The younger I am when I buy a house, the younger I'll be when I finish paying off the mortgage. For this reason it's better to buy one at 25 than 35. The job gives me money and it's good that I'm not a burden on the taxpayer.
Sure I enjoy having a girlfriend some of the time but some of the time I feel nostalgic for the days when I was single. The days when I could spend the whole weekend by myself. I love being alone. But people might think I'm a loner. That wouldn't be keeping up appearances.
Some days when I'm with whichever girl I'm dating at the time, when I want to be alone, I feel like an aromantic man pretending to be normal. On some days I even lose interest in sex. It becomes routine. Mechanical.
Sometimes when I'm at work I feel like I don't belong there. Like I'm not smart enough to have that job. I guess at least 49% of people have to be below the median. Is it bad if I'm in that group.
They say you shouldn't compare yourself to other people but it drove me to success. What if it was just keeping up appearances?
At the moment I'm dating a Chinese girl Ting Li. She's nice and sweet and kind. Her attitudes differ from Western attitudes. Westerners say money doesn't buy happiness. Ting Li says more money means a better life. Westerners say not to compare yourself with other people. Ting Li's attitude is to look at other people and try to emulate their success.
I wonder which attitude is better? The Western attitude or the Chinese attitude? The Western attitude seems kinder but sometimes it feels like empty platitudes. Maybe the Chinese attitude is more practical.
The stereotype is that they work hard, study harder and are very frugal. I can confirm that they work hard and study hard but they are not always frugal. Conspicuous consumption is the rule for east and west alike. The Chinese are also concerned with keeping up appearances.
Should I keep trying? Harder and harder? When it's mostly just to keep up appearances? Or should I let myself go?
I honestly believe this is one of the reasons why men are more likely to climb the corporate ladder because deep down, many men are aware it is something that attract women, and they even have too to keep their wives happy and thinking highly of them....
Also it's why so many women are happy to stay in the same lowly admin positions for decades, because deep down...they are aware that it doesn't harm their dating value at all. Not even a bit.
But yeah, the man's way is not necessarily a happy way.
It is human nature to want to better your situation. Most Aspies on this forum won't get into a relationship if it means lowering your standard of living. There is even the lie that you are at the bottom, so you need to date up. Not true. You can't be at the bottom if you have the ability and resources to post here. There are Lower Functioning Autistics you could pair up with, but it is likely that your low standard of living would get even lower. Someone that needs a couple hours of assistance each day for their activities of daily life, for instance.
But, if you really loved someone, maybe doing that would be preferable to slaving away at some store where your efforts are hardly appreciated.
@The_Face_of_Boo
Exactly.
The reason men work more hours and earn more money(on average), is because we need to do so to get sex, women don't.
It's easy to buy into a self created illusion, and try to view ourselves as being above primal desires. But when I've thought about why I'm going back to university, the most likely answer is that I like ass.
If university didn't help with that, I would probably just keep working a low paying job, and make some money from music and engineering on the side.
RetroGamer87
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There's nothing wrong with bettering yourself for practical purposes. My conflict comes from the idea that instead of making practical improvements to my life, maybe I'm just keeping up appearances like the main character from a certain BBC sitcom.
Sometimes I feel like most of my efforts are done just to improve my image rather than to improve my quality of life. Yes more money can improve one's quality of life. I prefer the immigrant's practical approach of trying to obtain more money rather than the westerner's philosophical approach of saying "money doesn't buy happiness". But I feel like some of my efforts aren't actually likely to increase my income. Or even if they do, increases of income are sometimes met with increases in living expenses (and so not increasing my rate of saving). Your living expenses can easily expand to fill your income in the way gas expanded to fill a container.
_________________
The days are long, but the years are short
Last edited by RetroGamer87 on 28 Oct 2017, 5:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The build up for being a virgin is there just for being different. Once you lose your virginity the same life you have is the same life afterwards. The only change that'll happen is that less people will focus on your differences. It's the same with glasses and several other things. Being friends with people because of status is bullcrap and so is dating someone because of status. Screw being like everyone else to get the things we want in this world. What we need to do is be open minded to the people who actually love and care about us, and not these strangers who if we impress mean little when impressed or disappointed.
Last edited by ZachGoodwin on 28 Oct 2017, 5:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.