Trying to break bad internal habits

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Well, I'm almost 29 and in the past 8 years I've barely dated at all. Most of the time its been women who were more interested than myself, who made the moves, and either things fell apart on their own or I found that I just wasn't interested - nothing could really be done about that one.

I've realized a few things in my pattern of thought that I know I need to sponge out. Part of my internal instinct, mostly I think as a form of protectionism, has gotten to where I've regulated myself and my impulses so heavily that I can't even feel a compelling desire to take initiative with women, for all the modifications and all the blows I've self-delivered its very difficult to even want someone badly enough to feel compulsion to try.

On another note, not even on the dating matter but more on the social plane. I don't know if its just a family matter but 2nd and 3rd cousins, whether its been times that I either talked to one of their fiances at length or alternately talked to a cousin through marriage (who's about 8 or 9 years older and who we've recently had some interesting conversation) and their husbands, who to their credit don't know me, would come up and hug them from behind or something like that as if they're trying to assert their territory. Stuff like that a) I'm not doing anything wrong, b) their guys aren't doing anything wrong either; the human condition is weird, people's intentions are tough to gauge, and most people err on the side of caution especially when they don't know what the next person is about. I got stuck in a rut, off and on, thinking about situations like that, and when I replay situations where I felt like I triggered something like that through my own behavior, I've had a historical tendency to beat on myself over it (ie. I used to gauge reactions of people even sizing up the potential of my having such intentions as some sort of social failing on my part and yes - I'd scold myself like I've tended to over so much else).

Coming back to the age thing, where I'm at, its taken me quite literally this long to throw away what I've been through, the beatings I took externally and from other people through school and what not, its really taken me this long to get to where I'm actually ready to peel back a lot of the protective layers. Yes I've been depriving myself of my life but I realize there was no other way about it, I was that scarred for the last 8 years still that there really wasn't much I could do in terms of not being that protective of self. Part of me is also realizing though, as much as I push myself to be an adult I realize that part of my emotionality still is stuck a bit back in my early 20's and I think the only way to combat things like this and actually be in a place where I can date, be with someone who I'd want to be with - is being fair to myself and that means ditching the rule 'when in doubt, blame yourself'.

I do have a lot going for me; I dress well, I'm getting in better and better shape, I have an ambitious and confident air about myself much of the time (though not narcissistic, my friends do the altruistic-but-edgy bit well and I've learned from the best) and I'm working on having a bit of the whole sunny but corrupted sort of disposition where I can be happy but make it obvious that its not coming from a place of detatchment from reality. I realize that self-presentation is an art-form, kind of blending the things that you know you are as well as what you strive for from within as well as where you want to go.

Anyway. The thing I'm wondering about, if my paradigm isn't too out of the ordinary and if other guys here have been through points in their lives where they realized that their own lack of relationship-orientation, lack of drive, or overall defensive mechanisms were keeping their heads and emotions too far outside the game; what kinds of things you told yourselves, what sort of positive input and feedback worked, I'm coming up with better and better ways to chip away at it now but I also know it could take a while. Yes, I know that I have to what works for me and I won't necessarily be trying to use every bit of advice but - I realize it couldn't hurt to ask.

First things first, I am 22 so take my advice as is.

I have spent years and years learning social skills, pretty much my entire education is street smarts. However i still find that when it comes to women i am horrible at relationships great at socializing and enjoying the company... it is sexual intimacy that gets me and that is kind of something i am personally figuring out as we speak.

if you are in the 20 year old mentality that is not actually such a bad thing, in fact i would say it is the opposite, it might very well be a breath of fresh air for the "older" crowd and also is guaranteed to work on college girls.

as far as socil skills applied to dating here is my run down for you ...

first and foremost, fake it till you make it. Money talks bull s**t walks. and do not be afraid to put him in his place. I have won over many a women by outsmarting and out knowing the standard jocks. i also find my sense of humor and cool honest nature win women all the time ...

the best pick up line i have ever used was this ... "Hi my name is ____" followed by an extended hand. first and foremost if she does not shake back then F her. if she does shake back and it is a firm hand shake at that, compliment her. "Nice hand shake" ... i have never had a girl who was not flattered by that compliment. it is very difficult for women to gain respect in a "mans" world and a firm handshake is always sexy in my book as well as a great starter...

now on to the conversation part ... be interesting. if you are dull or crass nobody but a dog will listen and even then you might have to give the dog a treat

I find the easiest way to be conversational is read yahoo news every morning and be up to date on common affairs. now i am also a comedian and an improv artist so it is also in my "data base" to know about pop culture junk e.g. Paris Hiltons newest reality show or what happened last week on the hills ... however int his same regard women find a guy who is honest and unafraid to tell them the truth EXTREMELY SEXY e.g. "ha-ha, the Hills, i do not know what that is, something to do with Paris Hilton i suppose?" ... also women LOVE to TALK and especially they love to talk about themselves. So ask questions(the secret is actually listen and become interested)[bonus points for the man who remembers things and brings them back]

Another thing women love is to teach you about things for example a great conversation topic is fashion ... if you are not fashionable then ask questions like "I was thinking of mixing it up, tired of wearing plain tees, any ideas?" however even sexier is the man who knowsfashion.

I know so much about fashion i make girls wet e.g. lateral stripes make me look taller and purple is the new pink...

Now onto the topic of touching ... creepy is the guy who uncomfortably reaches out to touch a girl or put his arm around her. Sexy is the guy who trusts his guts and just does it. Do not abuse this, it is trial and error. However i have now mastered the ability to play fight. Do you have any younger siblings or relatives? My little sister has taught me an incredible about about flirting ... women love to play around it really is that simple. if she makes a sarcastic quip you playfully tap her shoulder and say "oh behave"

Now how do I know if she is into me?

That is the hardest and yet easiest part of all. Most women are subtle the do things like glance over and make eye contact, or they move into close range of you, or even better when you talk with them and they hit you. Touching is the ultimate sign of attraction next to literally jumping your bone(s).

Hope this helps. And remember, practice makes perfect. We all have to fall sometimes but it is those who get back up again that are survivors. Also Jocks are no worry ... worst case scenario they actually beat your ass ... but in my experience i yet to get my ass beat.

Knowledge is sexy, confidence is sexy, humor is sexy, money is sexy(careful for gold diggers), fashion is sexy, listening is SEXY, and personality is key...

James Dean was considered very sexy mainly because he was confident being himself ...

Other good ideas are meditation, dating journals, and for a quick read "The Game by: Neil Strauss" but also be careful of the attraction forums ... following routines is about as cheesy/sleazy as the old man who winks at women from across the room...

Hope this helps

-Zane

I've been working on being gentle on myself when I find out someone I thought was a friend is not. I give myself permission to fail because it's not my fault that I make such mistakes and in the future shall continue to make such mistakes. If I don't try and occasionally actually make a friend I will die very lonely.

Hey! there is nothing wrong with being alone ... personally i have grown to really enjoy my solitude ... look into ancient civilizations ... hell Hermit monks ... or better yet ancient Gnostic's

One thing I'll add, its such a mix of compexities (ie. me) that its hard to tell where one issue stops and another begins.

I have had one helpful observation, I'm still not 100% sure what to make of it because its hard to nail down the mechanics (again, very complex and subtle). I notice with my NT guy friends who are single - outgoing, cocky funny, have sport bikes, know a lot of major people (as do I), have a lot of upper class acquaintances, and for all their credentials they can't keep women. I also noticed that the clique I hung out with back in college; they were the seeming 'cool' kids, not deliberately asserting it in anyway, being themselves, all good looking guys and girls, all had good social skills and if anything it seemed like a group of leaders. Oddly enough, they were all single and seemed to stay that way all through college, not because they were getting around and party, they all had steep challenges with themselves I think in a similar regard to what my friends have and what I've noticed I have as well.

The way I connect the dots on all of these people is that while they are sociable, stylish, have lots of flair, they're bottom line nature is more on the cerebral side. They're smart people, apply it heavily to street smarts, common sense, conventional wisdom, try their best to round themselves out, but it seems like the same thing that keeps moving them up in the world also keeps them single - they're cerebral nature, the fact that they're nuts & bolts logical, and the fact that they're that way at the core makes it very difficult to shake their inherent problems.

For people like myself and for people like them, the biggest challenge is learning to reincorporate instinct, learn to have instinct flow with what you want, the trouble is that instinct generally isn't something your conscious mind can really grab and wield easily. Particularly for people like my friends - they're very aware people, don't like a lot of things about human nature, I think a lot of them if not almost all of them went through their own types and degrees of feeling alienated as kids just because they are the way they are, and while they were able to get their cool about them in their later teens and early 20's it came at a heavy price; they had to sort of divorce themselves from their instincts a bit like I did - its funny how it doesn't even take having PDD NOS of Asperger's for people to end up in that dilemma.

So here I've been, realizing for a long time how many core blockages I have, and of course like a lot of people I've known I've checked into the Dave D'Angelo, Styles, Mystery, and all that stuff - not so much to try and do what they do but to try and understand what's going on below the surface. I think the one guy who I could read up more from is Grant, particularly because he says something that I profoundly agree with; that everyone has their own distinct personalities, their own traits that they can bring forward to really have an ultimate win-win; ie. make things happen and yes, make them happen in a way where they're being their true selves (maybe a few angles tweeked but still, nothing wrong with that as long as it doesn't constantly lead you to people who you can only connect with superficially).

I'm the type of person where, inherently, I'd much rather be in a long term relationship rather than play the field. It has a lot to do with my psychological and emotional make up, in terms of how I'm built and what my emotional needs are. With my PDD, the fake it to make it only works so well, the thing that really does help me is thinking about it, having the right internal epiphanies about how to get around my own nature or have it flow in formation, and of course a bit part as well is ditching the self-blame game; its an insular tactic, one that I used just to keep myself safe while I sat back and learned as many of the do's and don'ts with people as well as the angles they're coming from and why those do's and don'ts are there.

Like a lot of people I'm just trying to shake that feeling like I'm psychologically, emotionally, and motivationally - stuck in this elastic box that I can't punch my way out of, rip my way out of; knowing the specifics of what's wrong only goes so far; its dealing with myself that's the challenge. To tell the truth I can't say I've even had bad luck with women in my life, I'm sure plenty would have dated me; the trouble in all those senses has been having luck with myself. I'm lucky enough that I constantly pick up bits and pieces about my own nature, learn to further manage my social anxiety and obsession with needing social perfection of myself. Heh, its part of why giving up hallucinogens as an age appropriateness issue has been so hard; having help in shattering my paradigm and looking at it from the outside from time to time was very useful.

And yes, I'm sure it sounds like I over-analyze things beyond belief. In my situation though, as far as I'm concerned, I really don't have a choice. People who don't have to declare war on their own nervous system and devote years to trying to curb certain fundamental things - I actually consider them remarkably lucky and as well I'd like to think they can see it that way as well.

No one's telling me it is, or at least no one I listen to. I have gotten myself to be happy with what I have but, at heart I know that in not going that route I'd feel starved - not of sex (I'm weird like that) but of something more developmental. Certain types of maturity and depth you really can't gather on your own without the sorts of experiences necessary to trigger them. I want to give of myself on that level and be in the right mind frame to do so.

You should talk to Magus she is all about the romancing of AS guys

I read your post.. and I thought wow .. you are really looking at yourself and examining every nuance. I think honestly, this is what is holding you back ...

You sound like an intelligent guy that has been through some tough times.. With a slight perception shift you can make some headway. Rather than seeing yourself as battle scared and beaten up. See yourself as a resilient survivor. Be confident in your ability to withstand the tricky situations and also ask yourself, what is the worst than can happen. Sometimes thinking about what could happen and reflecting on the reality of that .. makes us realise that in fact it is not so bad.

Having others like you and want to spend time with you, starts with you liking yourself.
Be proud that you have come through some difficult times and that you are still standing, be proud that you are smart and loyal. It sounds to me like you have a lot to offer just as you are, be confident in that, be genuinely interested in others and you will find people want to spend time with you. Don't over analyse ... just * be * and work towards being the best you, you can be. Don't try to be someone you are not.

I definitely see myself as a survivor. Most of my life I was trained to see myself as a victim, was horridly disgusted with myself and I made a decisive change to almost the 180 opposit. Truthfully if I had kept up in a victim state, I likely wouldn't still be here today.



As of right now I definitely like myself, at least my values, who I decide to be, what I'm about, I have my flaws and I'm doing all that I can to try to be more fair to myself. The self-analysis will be the hardest part to kill, partly because I do have a lot of neurological interruption and internal noise; in a sense I do it because I lack a better option, following instinct in my past would have been a terrible catastrophe, now it wouldn't be as bad but it would still be a hell of a tightrope walk and I'd have to be paying as much attention to how I finessed my own mindstates as well as the situations I found myself as I have to analyzing myself in the past. For me, at least with the birthright genetic hangups I have, some of which have been blessings as much as curses, there really is no easy way out of this - though I'll admit, I'm about the farthest thing from a quitter and if anyone had to have my body, my neurological set, and my challenges I think a higher power picked the right person for the job .

Last edited by techstepgenr8tion on 07 Oct 2008, 6:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

On another note, its so sad its almost funny; I think I need to do a hell of a lot to recharge my sort of animalistic/evotionary drive. Anymore, either through protective training or just trying to cut myself free from other people's control determine my own life - I can't be intoxicated by women, I can't just dial in on someone, or be immersed in them. I'm not sure what I'll do about that, I'd like to think that with time I'll unwind a bit more. Right now its bad enouugh that I had to go and get some Megan Fox wallpaper for my computer just to remind myself to have some ambition of some type; I'm really that out of touch on the emotional level that I don't even inherently think about women unless I do something to try and push myself in that direction. All of this could just go with the territory of, with PDD or AS, being mildly asexual but if anything I think its hard life experience thats trained that one into me and yes, I remember different times in my life and I'd like to think that the wisdom I've obtained through the years can help me use the best of both.

www.redtube.com ... that'll wake up the old sex drive ... :WARNING: it is a porn site ...

Either that or I should just indulge myself in the next clandestine thing that comes my way at a party . Married or engaged, I'd like to say I'd work that one out afterward but I'm too much of a wuss, - my morals have by spine by the battery pack .

Hey even Jesus slept with prostitutes

In case any religion is offended that was a joke...

but yeah i feel you, it was mainly a push comes to shove thing. i think my morality feels a lot less wounded using porn than random hook ups ... then again what do i know i am still 22 and fertile

I just finished a book called Undefended Love, which addresses this sort of thing. Great book.

I just got it used on Amazon, it looks awesome. I'm sure there's also a lot that I can glean from it.


Something else that still isn't on the radar, I got curious again to look around Youtube.com just to see the personalities - who the hookup guru's are, the differences in approach and style that they have, the different issues they address for guys. Oliver Turner said some things that really caught my interest; mainly that he's trying to pry through the need of pick-up lines and specific game, saying that he believes that going for those sorts of things rather than taking away from them the reasons why they work and what it means; that this is to blame for why there's such a disconnect between most guys who want help and then most of the guru's. A lot of guys are just too authentic, respect themselves too much, and can't stomach the idea of being fake with a woman. Oliver's mission it sounds like is telling all these guys that they don't have to.

My end goal, I want to be able to drive the woman who I decide to be with - wild, not even because I have a rabbit's drive, mainly because I'd like to send her a vibe, have her feeling insane things all over, and myself smiling back like "I know what that just did for you, I like the fact that it made you feel that way and making you feel that way makes me deeply happy". Ability to communicate in intimate ways is an extremely powerful gift for giving to someone else in a relationship and yes, for that purpose I want it.