Nice Guys and Love, what's your take on the issue

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Nomads of the friendzone: http://www.morethanmen.org/2012/02/03/n ... riendzone/

imho, have you tried actually telling her/him you are interested rather than spending months being "nice"? Worst case scenario he/she rejects you and well, you can consciously decide to stay in friendzone or find a new target and don't bother being nice for show.

OH,

"Here’s the deal: You don’t want to sleep with every woman you get along with. I know I don’t. See my handy Venn diagram to the right. As you can see, there are a lot more people I am only interested in friendship with than there are people I want to put my penis inside. You probably have a very similar ratio, most men do. Most women are the same way because, as recent studies have shown, women are also people(! !!), so we can expect similarities to happen about human behavior stuff like this."

That's 100% accurate, but doesn't cover 100% of cases.

The 1st problem comes along when EVERY woman you are ever interested in, is never interested in you back, usually compounded by the fact that, EVERY woman who is interested in you, you are never interested in return. Typically this problem just leads to you having very low abilities when dealing with women, undermines that all important "Confidence" you are supposed to have, and leads directly into the second problem since it basically puts a big flashing sign over your head that says 'Sucker'.

The 2nd, and more odious problem comes along when you have the misfortune to be interested in a woman who is manipulative and hateful, and who is more than happy to take advantage of your (declared or undeclared) feelings towards her to get something that she wants. You have now been used as an Ego booster, Financial resource, Emotional Crutch, or some combination of any/all of these. Once you realize that she's only been flirting with you in order to get what she wants, sometimes even agreeing to go out on dates with you (if she hasn't got anything better to do) is when "Seething pits of resentment" come into play.

The trick is, that when you are interested in a niche hobby, say, role playing games, you will find three types of women involved. Nerd Girls, Nerd-Curious/Accepting Girls, and Ego-lampreys. The first two groups are all fine and dandy, but that last one, She's generally a Nerd-Curious girl, or more than likely just a Fine Arts student who has realized the Nerds are an easy target, will fawn over her at every turn because she's prettier than most of the Nerd Girls, will compliment her work, and most importantly will buy her things she needs for her artwork. She achieves this by being flirty, constantly, and will make sure you know she is ALWAYS the victim in any interpersonal dealings she is involved with. Woe betide you should you ever cease to be willing to pay her compliments, pad her ego, or pay her way.. or worse, should you dare to expect her to listen to or care about your problems (as real friends would)..

I know that last sort exists, and isn't all that rare, as I've encountered no less than a dozen of them in my 27 years of life. My own sister was one of them, and I watched her raid and pillage the emotions and finances of any guy who had something she needed, until either he got sick of waiting for them to become a couple, or she got tired of him treating her like a friend rather than her rightfully enthroned place at the top of the diadem in front of which he would kneel and pour libations.

Granted this doesn't apply to all aspies, any more than it implies that 100% of all women are like this, merely that there are SOME who are, just like there are SOME men who beat their wives and there are SOME people who think Micheal Bay is a good filmmaker.

Whoa, there are bad peeps in the world? For realz?

Please, either address the points in my post or ignore it, facetiousness and sarcasm are beneath you.

The point I was trying to explain is, that encountering such a creature in addition to simply not being particularly adept at dealing with women, I feel is the root cause of the rampant and much bemoaned "friendzoning" which is so maligned on this forum.

Everything that happens has a cause, and simply put, sometimes the emotional state of people isn't something which can be fixed quickly or by posters on this forum harping at them to be more "Open minded"... if it can be fixed at all.

It leads to people seeing things which may not be there, and leads to people unfairly applying their past experiences to their current situation. You got burned in the past, you are now talking to another girl, she legitimately only wants to be friends, your brain segues back to the bad experience, you then begin to resent this person who is actually nice, and then you go online and complain about it, because "it happened again".

Sorry, I genuinely didn't see how bad experiences with the opposite sex had to do with the audicity of whining about women who want friendships with you.

Everything that happens DOES have a cause, and much of the commentary surrounding people who talk of "friendzoning" reveals that this "cause" is a deep underlying sexism, ranging from the feeling that someone has a RIGHT to a romantic/sexual relationship to the idea that women are a monolithic sadistic beast out to get you.

No one can expect you to change your opinion or stance, rabbitss, but you can't expect anyone to take your comments lightly when you condemn a gender (one you see as another species at times) for not complying in a way that you are emotionally and socially equipped to handle.

There are bad people out there (I'd say Wiggin's comment was only a sarcastic joke, but being a woman you took her comment much harsher than you would have normally). Yes, that's a given. No duh. But your problems, aren't always the result of anyone else's shortcomings. Other people do have an impact on us, but when your behaviour keeps yielding the same results, it "might" just be you.

Last edited by JanuaryMan on 17 May 2012, 4:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I think I might just be a complete douchebag. I pretty much never get women wanting to be platonic friends with me, probably partially because 99% of my friends are friends due to common interest. I think the other thing, too, is I'm pretty terrible at the emotional support thing, and will usually go "oh, well, that sucks" when someone tells me something bad, but then my advice is usually like, awkward advice "well tell her what you told me, then, I can't do anything about it."

So yeah, I'm apparently not a "nice guy" as I don't get women telling me their problems and stuff, but I'm not dating either. Maybe it's this:


Definitely that.

I keep saying it, and I don't think I'm being understood, people aren't "Whining" about women wanting to be FRIENDS with them. People are "whining" about women wanting to take advantage of them by leaving the bounds of the relationship malleable when it suits them to do so, in order to achieve some sort of goal. Friends listen to each others problems, Friends help each other out in times of stress, Friends don't put their hands on their other friends in sexual ways in order to give false impressions. If you've been 'Friendzoned' it's because the girl wants to take advantage of you, not be your friend. If you MUTUALLY agree to be friends, then you are friends, and there is no "Zone" in which you have been put. Thats the important difference, if the girl/woman actually says the words 'I think we should just be friends', that is not the 'friendzone'. The 'friendzone' is when there is no tacit admission that something isn't working out, and the 'relationship' is effectively doomed.

There's nothing sexist about it. I think you are projecting your feelings onto what I'm saying. Furthermore, I most certainly didn't take it more harshly because she's female, I just felt she was avoiding my valid points by being sarcastic. I don't feel, and have never said that I have a right to a relationship with any given person, what I do feel I have a right to, is not to be dicked around by some one who just wants me to support her emotionally or financially, but then when I need support or simply want to advance our "Relationship".. I get shot down or abandoned.

Obviously no one can make her not be that way, but she should be a better person than she is. She's no different than the stories you hear of Guys who claim to 'Love' their girlfriends in order to have sex with her and then dump her or talk about how slu*ty she is behind her back.

My only fault is that I suck at judging people's motivations and tend to take what they say at face value. It leads to being taken advantage of a lot by people of both genders, and is part of the reason I don't leave the house much, and never associate with anyone at school. My experiences with people in general have been at least 50% negative, my experiences with women have been at least 70% negative. The only women who ever seem to treat me as a human being and not a ego boost or a piggy bank are ones I'm not interested in.

That's what more guys should do. Even if it doesn't get you any dates, at least you're not giving up your dignity.

how does a person lose their dignity by learning to be a good friend?

Let's say she never wants to hang out, never returns his calls, plays mind games and stuff like that and that the only thing she ever contacts him for is to b.tch about how the guy she's currently sleeping with is leaving the toilet seat up all the time.

A good friend talks about common interests, like ice hockey, what kind of motor oil is good, movies and stuff lik that—and at the same time is willing to do fun stuff (concerts, going to the gym and so on) with you. The guy the unstable girl is currently f.cking is her friend.

that doesn't make sense. your response has nothing to do with dignity, it has to do with the fact you don't actually WANT to be friends with women. that doesn't make friendship undignified. most women are good friends and do not use people just for support, anyways. your starting point is out of whack.

I never said that. I have a few female friends and I know for a fact that they are real because they don't vent minor problems to get an ego boost.

The dignity part makes perfectly well sense. When “the friendzone” comes into play, the girl knows all to well how the guy feels. By having a “friendship” where you get all of the bad parts that are normally found in a relationship (you get to listen to crap and pay for her gifts, give her free meals at restaurants and so on) and someone else gets all the good parts, you're giving away your dignity. It's similar to a “friendship” between a queen and a jester.

It's discouraging that many nice guys finish last. I ain't a fan of it, but could it also say something about the women the nice guy is flirting with?