Nice Guys and Love, what's your take on the issue

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Call Scooby Doo cause it's the ghost of the NiceGuytm and Friendzone the zombie concept terrorizing the factory.
It would be so nice to be able to come here without seeing this particular mess get mopped up every other thread.
This isn't the place for "who do all the men do this" or "why won't women let me do this" it's a place for practical advice and discussion.
It's sad because it's really just a stable of about 3-5 commenters that bring out the big sexist guns and in dealing with that nonsense, more moderate, nuanced, interesting discussion where there is some grey area to be navigated gets put aside.
Not to mention the people who post the most offensive nonsense also seem (to me) to be the first to whine that they are being "attacked personally" when someone takes issue with their statements. (and then in a viscous bout of irony they call their "attacker" names, and insinuate that they have impaired judgement)

I'm just really frustrated. I want to be a part of this community so badly. I'm still kind of grappling with my diagnoses and being accepted into "autistic spaces" is a big deal for me. I hate that it's such a struggle to make it seem welcoming, or even just non-threatening for women/non-binary people/different orientations. And I hate that there are wonderful male commenters here that sometimes don't get heard or feel unfairly (and often unintentionally) lumped in together with some commenters who have demonstrated less thoughtful and considerate posting habits just because they share a gender.

It's not even just that I'm offended, or don't want to have to read topic after topic on how women are unfair, or nice guys finish last, or guys are shallow or whatever unfair/inaccurate/hateful thing is having to be addressed. It's that it limits actual, meaningful conversation by choking it out like a weed.

may finish last but get high points for style and good duration.. hehe
chicks say yes to bad guys fast.. but dont stay.. depends on what u want

All princesses are women.

Bumping this thread because I had an enlightening convo about nice guys last night.

Last night I had a chance to talk to a grown woman who was completely drunk about anything I wanted to talk about(it was her first day of holidays, we went out with some friends everyone left she said she was staying and I had nothing better to do than to stay with her for an hour)

We discussed several things and she made a fool of herself a few times.
Anyhow the conversation quickly turned to our friends and we have a truly nice guy on the group(no TM whatsoever).

When I asked her about him she said that he was a great listener and he wasnt bad looking or anything but he was boring.
Now I have to agree with her on this and Im going to explain right now why does he come across as a boring person:

He lets this niceness define him most of the time. What do I mean by this? That several times Ive seen people wondering if theres something else to him beyond his niceness.

Once youve been talking to him for a while he does get a little more confident around you and shows other signs of his personality(he is actually quite funny for example) but most people just give up and start talking to the next person(big group of people lots of choices) because its extremely hard to get him to go past the wall of political correctness and short answers.

If you ask me he is a great catch, Ive been talking to him for several months and he is smart, funny, a truly nice guy... however if you had asked me a few months ago Id have said that he is boring because thats how he comes across on a first impression
Lets face it being nice to everyone(regardless of their gender) helps causing a good impression but if there isnt anything else to you you arent going to go very far.

Same way guys dont date girls just because they are nice girls dont date guys just because they are nice. There has to be something deeper that causes a connection to happen.
Im more than guilty of forgetting this quite frequently and acting like my friend, I can tell you that it does not cause the kind of impression that you are looking for.

spongy, isnt that by definition the flipside of the whole "girls want bad boys because they are exciting"? Thus it adds a certain level of proof to such claim.

Niceness is a submissive behavior- that's why it isn't an attractive male trait (zero value).

Badness is a dominant behavior- that's why it is an attractive male trait (often a 1 value).

Evolution.

/end of story.

Except that plenty of nice, gentle, quiet guys are in relationships. My husband being one of them, and most of the other guys I've dated too.

So if you're a shy, nice guy, you could either work on a complete personality transplant that may conceivably get you slightly more girls. Or you could work on showing that there's more to your character than simple passive niceness, and appeal more to the significant minority (if it even is a minority) of women who don't just want to be dominated by some ape of a man. I know which sounds like it has more chance of success. I mean, you don't need to appeal to every single woman you meet, yes? Just some of them.

Or, you could throw up your hands and call it quits because of evolution.

There are plenty of nice, gentle, quiet guys who are in relationships. Just like there are plenty of people who were terminally ill, but survived. That doesn't mean most of the people determined to be terminally ill have little time left. Generally, women do prefer men who are socially straightforward and dominant. That's because those men have attraction points based on their behaviour. Nice guys are the lions who wait patiently for the last parts of a zebra. Some of them might be succesful in surviving and reproducing, but they're generally several steps behind on the assertive ones. The lions who demand the first, best meat have the best chances, both of survival and in reproduction.

Examplary: almost all men with a slight mental retardation I've encountered or heard about were much more succesful than many of the most intelligent men I've ever met. Why? Because their social dominance, their status and their physical strength weigh much more in women's equation than intelligence, sense of humour or niceness. The reasons nice guys fail is because they're not actually using a working method.