Blog post on the epidemic of forced celibacy in males

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Breaking my promise, have to respond:

A. --Nothing is victimless. You can make the same argument about mining (destroys the environment, kills workers), fast food (destroys the environment, cruel to animals, kills its customers, underpays employees), and even the entertainment industry (brainwashes the public, increases violence in society, pollutes the environment with marketing materials, exploits workers). Why are prostitutes special? All of the jobs I listed are also staffed by people who may have had terrible upbringings or terrible and traumatic events in their lives, yet did not make the choice to sell their bodies.

B -- Please send me those stats/links when you get home so that I, who am also at work, can see those. I question the validity of those studies, because as far as I know , there is no true example of a completely legal and fully regulated prostitution market anywhere in the world, and especially not in the first world- In every case, it is a grey market, not completely legal. I am arguing using my own educated opinion (I do a lot of outside reading, and I am a voracious reader) and education (I have a MBA) with knowledge of the marketplace. I haven't seen you whip out your credentials or any actual facts yet, just opinions you claim are facts, and you seem very emotional about these. My prohibition example is perfectly legitimate, and I could very well argue that prostitution was de facto legal at different points in history (e.g. the Wild West or any other frontier area) and came under a prohibition of its own in modern times. Black market is black market. If you knew more actual history about narcotics, you would know that marijuana, cocaine, heroin, LSD, meth, etc. were all legal at some point in the United States and other countries. So they are all under "Prohibition" as well, it just lasted longer.

C. Once again, why are prostitutes special, and not Walmart workers (who are also exploited) or immigrant field hands who are paid less than minimum wage? You seem to have a special place in your heart for prostitutes -- that's fine, but not all of them need or want your help. Some people do indeed enjoy selling their body for money or performing sex acts on video for money, and you couldn't stop them if you tried. People try to make money off of the skills they have, or anything they have that people will pay them for. For the very desperate, stupid, or unimaginative, prostitution is one place that they end up -- there are others, like stripping, manual labor, factory work, etc., that have similar levels of job hazards, injuries, and other negative effects on life. In fact, almost any form of employment has some negative effect on the worker, even if it is just atrophying muscles and heart disease in physically inactive white-collar workers.

My feeling is that the reasons you are giving are proxies for the real reason -- clearly you either have had a deeply disturbing personal event related to prostitution (you or a friend/relative), are deeply religious and find the idea of sex for money offensive, or this is a hobby horse for you.

I think it is interfering with your ability to rationally discuss this issue. I'm much more concerned about the bigger picture of the scourge of crime and its roots -- shattered childhoods, sexual and physical abuse, drug addiction, the damage done to victims of crime, the cost to society of housing and segregating criminally dysfunctional people from the rest of us, victim's rights, than I am with any one problem or end result. You are addressing a symptom, but not the disease itself. If you really want to keep the victim segment of prostitution out of that career (and not everyone is there involuntarily or by coercion), make efforts to nip it in the bud by targeting those causes.

Also, for the prostitutes themselves -- It's very easy for someone who has completely screwed up their life and ended up a prostitute to play the blame game and blame their last job. It's not as easy for them to admit that other, completely unrelated factors put them into that job. It's not easy to admit that maybe they should have spent more time studying and less time partying as a young person, or that they shouldn't have dated that guy that everyone told them was a creep, and who ended up being a pimp, or that that first hit of crack was the real problem that put them into that circumstance.

If someone was literally kidnapped from China/Guatemala/Russia/Ukraine and pushed into prostitution (yes, it happens, and yes, I've read detailed accounts on both the personal and business aspects of this) -- yes, that is a genuine victim that needs out. Legalizing prostitution makes this less likely to happen -- when you have a government inspector in your establishment weekly, there is a lot more opportunity to save those that need saving. You are more likely to get regular health checkups for certification. You are more likely to have a union rep out there making sure you get what you deserve. Right now, those women are getting none of that.

My wife comes from a poverty-stricken third-world family, and all I hear about are the mistakes that her relatives have made that have ended up with them and their family paying the price. They like to play the blame game as well, but really, nobody forced them to become single mothers, or to marry the wrong guy, or any of the other mistakes they made that others pay for. As a result, my sympathy level is quite low for people born in a first-world country who continue to say "it's everyone else's fault" or "this job did this to me" -- what about personal responsibility? Unless you are a Russian prostitute chained to a bed, kept in a drugged-out haze, most prostitutes still have the power of choice, and really, without the johns, they wouldn't even be able to pay their bills. They may hate their jobs, but who doesn't?

A hand is not the same as a person. Ironically, the whole point of prostitution is that people crave other people, even if it means exploiting them or using them for a sexual fantasy. Otherwise, wouldn't they just use blow-up dolls and save a lot of money?

Nobody NEEDS alcohol (outside a medical setting) but banning alcohol caused more problems and crime than it prevented. When you ban something there's a large market for, you don't eliminate the market, you make it go underground, get the criminal elements involved and in the end create more problems. A well regulated, legal prostitution market means that prostitutes can go to the police if they're being abused, brothels that are run legally and not by criminal gangs, greater health monitoring of prostitutes and legal rights for prostitutes who get ripped off or injured and that police are monitoring the area where prostitution occurs - like police monitor areas where there are a lot of bars. It also means that women who are prostitutes don't get arrested for it, so they don't rack up a criminal record which prevents them from getting other jobs if they no longer want to work in that field and tax revenue.

I don't think women have any idea what it's like to crave the touch of a person of the opposite sex, and to be reluctantly celibate. If I just wanted to get an orgasm, I could masturbate. But when I dream at night, it isn't about sex usually. I usually dream of making out with women...touching women, being touched, and so on.

To me and many men, prostitution of any kind, even high class escorts, isn't an option because we want a woman who wants us to touch her, not a woman who is being paid to let us touch her. I don't buy the "You're paying for it with money or time" argument concerning dating. A non-professional lets you see and touch her body because she wants to...either that, or you did a good job misrepresenting yourself and what you wanted from her (which to me is no different than rape.)

I'd rather be friends with benefits or a date a woman that wasn't perfect looking and somewhat attracts me over a flawless looking girl that I'm paying and just goes through the act robotically anyway just to get it over with.

I agree completly!

I can not see the attraction of prostitution as the person does not want you, I want someone to want to have sex with me when Im haveing sex with them.

I also agree that its the touch one misses rather than the orgasms.

Agreed -- my arguments above about prostitution are academic. I have never and will never use a prostitute because I personally want someone to be doing it because they want to be with me, not because they are punching a clock or need another fix.

That's the Victor Malarek/Farley position. Doing it with guys who don't set off the female attraction triggers can take a toll psychologically. Every job has it's downsides. As far back as written history goes, trading sex for
Money has existed. It can be argued that it is far safer now than 50 years ago with current prophylactic technology.

There is such a thing as "ethical John". Contrary to what the Malarek faction (total prohibition) says, a good number of regulars do have rules pertaining to what girls they will see. A good number of guys will only see independent providers (no pimps) never hire streetwalkers or will not see Russians/eastern Europeans (most commonly trafficked group)

Both men and women will be trading sex for
Money as long as there is a need to make money. We haven't hit the eudaimonia phase of civilization yet.

I'm all in favor of
Locking up the as*holes who FORCE women to work in the sex trade. But prosecuting consenting adults for making a quick buck and blowing some quick money is a waste of time.

Also the sexual marketplace has altered so drastically now that simply being a good "catch" is no guarantee of companionship. Marriage is a losing proposition for lots of men since they stand to lose their savings because their wife got bored in the marriage.

Contrary to the malarek position states, humans have a need for affection and companionship that cannot be filled by their hand. Why should a person be punished with lack of companionship just because they aren't tall, thin, famous, or NT?

Nobody has a right to free sex simply because it is never free. Men are exchanging something for the companionship of the opposite sex. Be it money or simply being able to dynamically trigger female attraction switches (far harder than you think), men always pay for companionship.

People are far simpler than we think.

how do you think a supposedly 'ethical john' confirms whether a prostitute was forced into the trade? it's not like they carry a sign or explain it to their johns. in cases like that, the prostitutes have no choice but to work in the sex trade, and they don't want to lose business (or i.e. have their families assaulted - yes, this is a common threat from pimps). in some cases, their own lives are even in danger - do you think they would tell the truth? yes, eastern eurpoean women are most commonly trafficked, but that does not eliminate all possibility of using a woman who is performing the act against her will.

there is nothing ethical about being a john in the first place. legal/regulated or not - people get hurt.

Funny how you just jumped on one point and hammered it. You are not even addressing the crux of the issue. Farm workers, coal
Miners and other workers have it rough too but why should someone be punished for buying a product from someone WILLINGLY selling. The possibility exists all the time but the same thing could be said for patronizing a store owner who has to make alimony payments or keep a wife/gf happy because he is terrifies of life without them.

This argument will all be moot when the sexbot revolution hits.

idk why but this seems reminiscent of the time after African-americans got their rights.
but instead of lingering racist resentment towards them for not providing free labor and being subservient,
instead it seems now a sexist resentment towards women for acquiring enough independence to have dating standards.

a particularly sexist article, the bullet-riddled shield which you hide behind, has been tested and failed time and time again.
What makes you think it will garner you any more solid support for your pity party, than it has for anyone else in the last 90 years ?

Dude, the "old days" are gone and dead.
Ain't going to anybody no good by dredging this kind of stuff up.
All you're going to end up doing is stepping on people's toes, and offending all the female members here .

i believe there is a saying that applies,
"for the love of god stop kicking the horse already, it's dead =O!"

Didn't you see AI? Robot rights are next, right after transgender rights

I'm only half-joking -- I do think this will be an issue in the next 20 years, AI rights. If a computer can be incorporated, and make independent, conscious decisions, it's only a matter of time...

thank you. really.

that sounds like horatio alger to me. meh.



just as some folk are amusical or "tone deaf," some other folks are "tone-deaf" to body language and social cues and simply cannot be taught such, because they lack the specific gray matter which facilitates such learning and comprehension. book learning is one thing, but putting the book learning into actual practice is quite another, rather like the difference between lightning and a lightning bug. i knew GIs in the army who were stationed 3 years in a foreign country and never could learn the native language. i stubbornly tried learning french for 3 years and still know only a few isolated words, with no idioms or contextual comprehension - my brain was and is equally stubborn in its denseness. there is a carryover from this kind of dysfunctional cerebral opacity to novel working knowledge, to social cue/body language cluelessness and inability to gain whole functioning.

Yup, anytime

It's pathetic to link that to Asperger Syndrome. We are not celibate, we are not just genetically and/or neurologically programmed to be in relationships. Remember that simple thing, and life will be easier.

Couldn't have said it better myself.