Why do they marry them?

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Moog, you are dead on. Alot of this has to do with gender constructs. A geeky guy is going to see alot of benefits for dating a girl on the spectrum. The fact is being a passive homebody is okay for women. Women drive alot of the social interactions as well. So a guy with an AS girl is going to reflect alot of her needs for limited social interactions.

This gets harder for NT women. Largely because of social "obligations" for your typical family-oriented NT women. This is not thier fault, this is human behavior that perpetuates the species (creates support structures). The thing is this may be a total mismatch. The truth most change and adaptation has to be on thier part, and I think this is to much for them. The fact that thier idea of doing family things together and the "social veto" the one thing needed to keep a relationship with an aspie together is too much for them. I think this is why they struggle so much with children, as while NT are good with empathizing with other NT, understanding how people on the spectrum work and understanding thier needs are often vary hard. And getting through those barriers takes alot of work and clear verbal and written communication (no non-verbals) and most of the change literally has to happen on the NTs end. This is overwhelming for most NT women when hit with it, because alot of it does not allow for the normal flexibility and negotiation. The social veto especially. Scenario: "My mother died, we need to go to the funeral, and the person on the spectrum says, I don't think I can handle that I am staying home, you should go alone." You can see how this gets tough. The NT women may argue over it, but the truth of the matter is the social veto needs to be absolute in nature and cannot be argued to actually work. But this is very hard on NT women from an emotional standpoint. Especially since these circumstances having emotional support from a partner may be critical.

Women are really the social drivers of relationships. This kind of derails that social construct in many ways. Most women want the person to be thier with them, but somebody with a sensory and communication disability that makes group socialization difficult, is well...tough.



The truth is when you are with a partner on the spectrum, the NT partner has to make alot of changes. Especially once they realize thier non-social partner is not changing. It is hard for them to adapt. Some of this is lack of good communication techniques. Women tend to rely on nonverbal communication more, and less straighforward verbal communication, which is really ill matched for a person on the spectrum. I think the reason you see more AS women in happy relationships is because the social tone and communication they set for the relationship is different from the outset. Also it may be because that they may be better with communicating thier needs verbally with thier partner.

This is very complex though, with no easy answers, but the disconnect can be vary draining on NT women, since they are much more social. I think why they end up with the AS partners in the first place may be because of the whole subtly thing, it is not easy for a partner who is not on the spectrum to see what is going on at first, especially if they are older. My guess is many of the guys just seem like introspective intelligent men. I think the false diachotemy is often they expect those same men to integrate well into a highly social family structure. I think it is a disconnect of making assumptions based on unclear communications, and finding out that those assumptions are wrong.

Thanks, @Kaybee. I also hope that people will read it and consider it seriously....it seems that the ones you'd like to do that are the ones that never do.

Thanks, @ntgirl - you're very kind. I truly hope that people find it helpful...I know I would have many months ago. Suffice it to say I paid for the knowledge with a broken heart.

Welcome to Uta Frith's theory of mind concept, you tend to come across it a lot when dealing with people on the autistic spectrum

Yes, yes, yes! There are lots of reasons to keep going. I'm not trying to be a pollyanna in any way - there have been large chunks of my life that sucked due to abuse - so I've walked the walk. It's not easy - even when you're motivated to accept the challenge - and responsibility - to heal your life. But what is the alternative, exactly? Give up? Keep chewing up the people that come into your life and spitting them out?

The sad part about the story that sparked so much conversation in this thread (the post from that other site) is that the poster is doomed as long as she pursues her current relationship. Not because she's NT and he's Aspie, but because he's dysfunctional (abusive, violent, lack of coping skills, etc.), and she's dysfunctional (she wants to focus on his dysfunctional behavior, instead of her own - which is wanting to "heal" him). Her dysfunction is more benign than his, and will likely damage herself much more than it will damage him - but it won't lead to a happy ending for these two. She can take all the abuse he can dish out, she can lay down ground rules, she can be patient, she can stick with him no matter what, she can give him the best sex of his life (and change the sheets afterward) - none of it will make a difference. Until he realizes that he has some serious problems, and takes the steps necessary to deal with them, it doesn't matter what she does. You just can't cure someone else's dysfunctional behavior.

But you can cure your own dysfunctional behavior. You can do the research, get professional help, medication, join a 12-step program, learn coping skills, understand what a healthy relationship is, stop the equivocating, the lying, the rationalizing crap - and get on with it. By all means, keep trying, keep working, keep refusing to settle for the lousy hand you were dealt. You're the only one in the world who can do that for you - have at it.

@Laz, you're right of course. But I wasn't really thinking about an Aspie's difficulties understanding other people's beliefs and desires....it was more of a wistful observation....maybe along the lines of leading a horse to water?

@starygrrl, you've said a lot of things that are very insightful. My Aspie relationships did not fail for any of the reasons you mentioned. It was so much more mundane than that: my partners were quite dishonest, and quite manipulative. (Nothing to do with being Aspie at all.) Without honesty, trust is impossible. And you can't hope to have a successful Aspie/NT relationship without trust.

I was thinking more, we knew this 20+ years ago. I'm more interested in what interventions can bring about a change in such thought in the adult mind. Children are easy to intervene and support. Adults misdiagnosed/undiagnosed are not as easy to intervene in nearly the same way. If anything it requires a great deal of distruptive shift in the persons established sense of self and in how they percieve the world. I don't expect it to be easy, I don't expect banging on at someone all the time helps either. I suspect somewhere between doing nothing and letting the person hit a crisis before they have help or a brutal bashing of their sense of self is where the ideal intervention would be found.

When I'm less fatigued perhaps I can re-translate what i've just said into poetic metaphors or convey through the medium of dance to add emphasis.

@Laz, I can only offer an NT's perspective on the experience. I didn't have the benefit of any type of "intervention" as a child. I had to "save" myself as an adult. As a young adult, I sought treatment for behavior that was a direct result of the abuse I'd survived as a kid. Through that treatment, I began interacting with people who offered their support, their perspective on healing, told me things they'd tried that had worked for them, different philosophies on healing, etc. After this initial burst of self-realization, I became involved with the man I later became engaged to. That relationship was a bad choice - but I did seek therapy to deal with the aftermath (so there was something positive that came out of it). I didn't have anyone begging, threatening, or harping on me to make any of those changes. I was motivated, because I wanted to make my life better - I wanted to be happier. I, in turn, have never begged, threatened or nagged anyone about making those kind of changes in their life. I've suggested therapy, sobriety, whatever....but that pretty much stops at a suggestion. There was one person in my life who made one suggestion - literally. I believe, wholeheartedly, that I was in the right frame of mind to hear what that person had to say - and it changed my life. I accept that there existed a "perfect storm" of events that put that person in my life, who said what I needed to hear, at precisely the time I was ready, willing, and able to hear it. When I've suggested to a friend, lover, whatever that they may need to seek help, I typically won't make that suggestion more than once. I also don't stick around to be hurt and/or destroyed by someone who won't take responsibility for his/her life, and I won't stick around to watch someone destroy him/herself, either. Sometimes the only choice one has is to walk away.

I have read lots of NT/Aspie relationship problem sites and everyone says he was great in the beginning and as soon as the wedding was over, retreated into his special interest and lack of effort as a partner. I was definitely highly romanced by an Aspie. It was amazing. His interest didn't last long though. Once he "won" me, he was angry and frustrated that I had expectations of how he should behave in a relationship. We're not dating right now but he's still kinda sorta trying to be my friend though.

I think these husbands are simply nt men in a dead relationship. The wives won't accept that they're often the real problem and that they demand too much.

I think its when a person becomes the aspies special interest, they show a higher level of interest than they normally would, later the special interest changes and so the partner feels unloved. I think the partner would still be loved, just not at the intense level of special interest, but this would be a shock and a sadness to the NT partner.

Is that not something people without autism experiance though? Were maintaining the interest in a relationship in the long term is concerned it might be something thats another hurdle to cross but I can't see that being specifically just an autism only phenomina. It just might be an area that autism in one or both partners is exajerated

no I dont think its the same thing as what your talking about, the things Ive noticed is different in quality. I shall use an example from my own life.

My daughter has an admirer who follows her around and sends her love notes and emails, she does not like him anymore because he does this as she finds it creepy, however another lady might find it endearing to be so loved and date him, only to be shocked when his interest returns to train sets or a new interest. Its a different quality to real interest. When Ive been obsessed with people in the past it was not a healthy feeling like love, it was an unhealthy obsession, it felt very different.

From the 'Lovehim' post I quoted above, I think that is what happened with her aspie man, and with other similar cases Ive read about.

... I told my second wife to "Get these people out of here" at our reception.

However, I think something more than AS was at play there since I had knowingly "hooked" here as quickly as possible before the "real me" could show itself. Nevertheless, I do believe my underlying Aspieness and its inherent aloneness were what had driven me to act in that kind of desperation.


Yes, and with my "hostage" in tow.


Actually, I was later shocked to find she had any expectations at all ... and now all these years later and while the two of us now do well together, I still have not even the first clue about her deepest emotional needs.

I think that describes both of my parents' relationship with each other. The idea that the other may have had expectations at all, or expectations different from the ones in their own heads, never entered either's mind.