applying pickup skills in real life - an example

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i don't know roissy or any of the guys associated with that blog. nor do i have any desire to.

its a little like saying al qaeda represents all muslims. yeah there's a threat, but don't label everyone who wears a turban as a terrorist. feminism has some pretty nasty elements i'm sure you'd agree -- but there's good in feminism too.

i'm gonna come back with an updated approach. those who are interested can review the ideas then, and i'll keep making revisions until it makes sense. all i ask for is some openness and looking beyond the manipulation/pua angle.

the techniques themselves are underhanded, manipulative, dishonest, self-serving, narcissistic (there are more but this is getting silly)... so how would YOU label a person who used something like that?

Thanks Hyperlexian for the sound bites.
He has some relevant points? He says emotional maturity came after he learned social skills. Thats normal I would think for many of us?
How can a person be emotionally mature with the opposite sex before having experience with them, and how do they get experience without having 'something' that lets them attain that, and for different people that might be different things.

What I think your really saying there is that your going to check in with your friends on the Seduction community forums to give you a helping hand & advice on how to better deal with us hear!!

welllll, have you ever ever ever met a PUA (not just guys with a program, but also men who serially bang and discard women) who became emotionally mature through the process? one good example was roadgames, who openly stated in other threads that PUA techniques hampered his ability to truly connect with women on a deeper level as he could not view women in the same way anymore.

social skills are not a necessary prerequisite for emotional maturity anyway. they are different aspects of a person that may intersect but are not dependent on each other. for example, many men on here lack social skills to a large degree, yet might still maintain emotionally healthy relationships. and many NT men may have stellar social skills yet lack emotional maturity.

Different people seem to be approaching this with different levels of openness. But, it's the second part that seems universally troubling. There's no way to look beyond the manipulation because your whole project seems grounded in it. As far as I can tell, dishonesty and deceit are fundamental to everything you've proposed here -- in every one of your examples of social interactions in which you've employed your magical methods. And I think that's why we all hate it so much, TBH. As you know, we tend to be straightforward and direct people. And that's highly unlikely to change, regardless of whether you think that's ultimately why we're not more successful socially.

Are you not hearing, or are you not understanding? People are coming out of the woodwork, here, to tell you that they value honesty and straightforwardness, being dealt with directly and with integrity. They don't want to be manipulated, and they certainly don't want to become manipulators. The more I consider what I think you're trying to get across, the more difficult a time I'm having distinguishing it from animal training. The one standout difference, I guess, is that animals don't understand that they're being trained. Humans do. And when humans realize that they're being dealt with in underhanded ways, they leave. You may prove me wrong when you have this all worked out, but this seems like a recipe for disaster for people who are, for the most part, already lonely.

For my research of PUA what shocks me is have that community teachs them techniques e.i. bootcamps and being in flodnace by the novel and film Fight Club. (thats where they get there ideas for a secret society from)

No but when I was a teenager my friends and I really just wanted to have sex with girls. Young dumb and full of cum is the expression (and thats the way 'mostly' young males are).
Sometimes we fell in love in spite of that. Or met girls we really quite liked and so ended up having them as girlfriends, and that worked out to varying degrees of success and we all had difficult times and good times and learned things about ourselves and others the hard way and sometimes the not so hard way. Life..
If you find it hard to make friendships with people, or get a date with a woman, then its hard to get the life experience to learn that stuff. Maybe things like that PUA stuff is an entry to that.
I doubt most people are going to be brainwashed into thinking thats the way they need to be as a person fullstop (OK maybe some people), and that endless sex with girls is an endgame.

well, you're kind of disregarding the effect that the PUA techniques have on the women involved. ask the females in your life if they've ever been seduced under false pretenses, and you will get an idea what it is like from the other side. it affects some (many) women on a fundamental level... it can be quite damaging, and it an cause a sick amount of anger, bitterness, sadness and loss of trust.

and it can be damaging for the men involved as well (which i addressed above). nobody wins in those situations.

of course... men get laid using these techniques though, and perhaps that is seen as more important, from the perspective of a young male. that is why it is important to express the darker side of it, and to try to educate about the effects (for both men and women, i must add again).

not every male is like you were... is it possible you are seeing an element of your own past in this PUA stuff, and therefore you don't want to consider it could have been a detrimental activity to both you and to your past partners? many men don't want random sex with as many women as possible - it's not a universal thing (even on this board it isn't universal - many men turn down random sex). i think that opening that door can be a dangerous thing as it is selling something that isn't necessarily desirable until the market is created.

the market is created by telling men (who may not even want random sex), that using PUA techniques will lead to something better. i think that is a false premise, and one tha tcan lead to bad consequences for both men and women.

I have found a link here to show what kind of material Neil Strauss trains his "minions" who line his bank account for him and I assure you it is pretty much what Roissy promotes, though Roissy does not hide his contempt for women, whereas Neil Strauss does hide his. That to me is the only difference.

Looking at the DVDs Neil Strauss sells,

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=965556

I see the following:






Annihilation of women? Seriously? Mummy issues much.



errrr.....






So, Neil Strauss clearly has no problem using NLP and hypnotic techniques on unsuspecting women.



yep, I see plenty of potential for helping AS men with much needed basic social skills there. The social skill that is, of explaining to the bank manager why they cant pay the rent this month, because they gave $4000 to Neil Strauss for his swimming pool upkeep.



So, in conclusion, Neil Strauss is no different than Roissy apart from being able to present himself as slightly less of a blatent douche, but I cannot see any difference in philosophy whatsoever, and in my opinion Neil Strauss is just as dangerous to me.

Wow, is that actually the name of the product?

These PUA threads are hilarious.
Next time I feel bad about my own social ability/awareness I'm going to read them to make myself feel better.

OK, that didn't come out right, I wasn't going around having sex with girls willie nillie which was never the case, I meant I (and my friends) wanted to have sex, because thats a LOT OF FUN and girls are sexy. I was actually hopelessly shy, my first girlfriend was the first girl I had sex with and we were together 3yrs.
By the same token, at the same age my wife it seems was blundering along inadvertently leaving a trail of broken hearts behind. Oh well so much for stereotypes.

Actually I probably shouldn't be posting in here I don't know anything about PUA.

Rofl they don't know the meaning of the f*****g word, integrity!! Anyway IMO Strauss is more dangerous than Roissy, as Strauss teaches soft mugs the unethical use of NLP and hypnosis, well from only my knowledge Rossy is just a salesman and proselytizer of this BS.

http://www.pickup-lines.org/neil-strauss/

Yes, that is what it is called. I tried to go onto Neil Strauss's website last night but it is closed to the public. I guess he doesnt want people witnessing his creepy lessons so he only lets people in who are going to be open to them *shrug*.

Yes, but your wife was probably unaware of the damage she was causing. I know I hurt some people but was oblivious to it as I didnt have a lot of social understanding of other peoples feelings until my late 20s.