If it turned out your partner was transsexual...

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May I point out that the only part of a human being that actually has gender is the sexual organs? The rest of the body only transforms due to hormones released by those said organs. The brain itself is genderless. If those organs were entirely replaced with those of a female, then wouldn't that make them completely female? I don't understand why you would reject someone simply because at one point they were male. Especially if they now have a vagina. I can understand rejection if you wanted kids eventually, but you can always adopt.

It could be because of some inherent trait that sexuals have that makes the answer impossible for me to grasp (I'm asexual and do not understand or have sexual desire) but that's just strange to me that you would reject someone for their history. I don't think it should be likened to rejected a former scam artist who has converted to living 'clean' though. That's like saying being gay is a crime.

Well, I'm done spouting my opinion.

If I could 'like' this like you can on Facebook, I would. I don't understand rejecting someone based on their genitals (current or former) either.

I think what you said about heteros is largely true. However, most bi people I know would be more open to it (making them technically pansexual, but meh to labels). I don't think it's just amongst other trans people that they would find acceptance. Trans people are attractive to someone, or tranny chasers would not exist. However, 'chasers' are usually into trans people because they are trans and not because of them being the gender they wanted to become. I am a bit attracted to transmen, but I feel bad about it because I will admit that part of the appeal is that they used to be (biologically) women. Ideally, I shouldn't care what they 'used' to be, but in reality, the whole thing fascinates me, whether I like it or not.

As for your second point - do you have evidence? I've read that some people do regret transition, but those people tend to regret it because they realise they didn't want to become the opposite gender but instead really wanted to be outside the gender binary, or androgynous. This goes back to what you said earlier about about accepting the body you were born with - for people with androgynous/genderqueer traits, surgery is often a really bad idea. I know it would be a really stupid idea for me and I'm a bit of an androgyne. Everyone is not like me, though. I'm that quirky masculine woman you mentioned and I'm mega different to a transsexual.

Some people are not just a bit transgendered but actually transsexual; it's not the socialised gender roles that annoy them, but actually being in a body that feels totally wrong for them. It's torturous and I've heard it makes them really suicidal. Surgery and hormones might sound really extreme and unnecessary to you, but to some people it's the only thing that gives them any hope. It might not give them exactly what they are looking for (they can't change their chromosome and some transitions are more successful than others) but it's often the case that they feel much better after the transition. Not perfect, but better than doing nothing.



Your views aren't extreme. You're extremely certain that they're correct, though.

Interesting topic. I'd break up because they lied. Since they're a partner it means they were already in a relationship with me and I don't really care for lies from someone i've been honest with.

Not to say i'd like being with a transexual, or would be with one based on preference (also I have someone) but you improve your chances with that type of thing based on honesty.

This I agree with.

Also, I know trans people are attractive to some people. There's no need to hide it from someone who really likes you. The whole 'stealth' thing is silly when it comes to a romantic partner. You need to let people know about that sooner rather than later.

Even if my (hypothetical) partner was very successfully transitioned, I'd still like to know early in the relationship. I wouldn't reject them.

Sorry but your logic doesn't work.

She probably wouldn't have lied, she just wouldn't have told you. If you'd have ask "Are you a transsexual" she would probably have to you the truth.

It's like breaking up with an Aspie just because he didn't say he was Aspie.
Also, would you say that someone lied to you if he didn't tell you that he was raped when he was a kid?

Everything has to be said but it does not necessarily as to be said immediately. Not all transsexuals would feel conformable saying that they are indeed trans. It's a very personal information. If I was transsexual I would probably need some time before telling the person but I wouldn't wait too long. Many people (like bisexuals, cross-dressers and many others) wait 2-3 years before telling their secret to their partner.

If a transsexual women is pre-op she obviously will have to tell it at the beginning of the relationship but otherwise she could wait a lot more until she's comfortable.

S is.)

A transgender might not choose the sex they were born with--but they choose the operation to be reassigned a gender. Its not the same thing.




Shame on them. People take extended timelines like 2-3 years for granted, if its not my preference, its just not my preference. If someone really "cared" about me, the indepth intimate discussions I generally have with "partners" would sort my preference out for them within a few months at most. You're wasting a persons time based on selfish whims. I definitely tbh, wouldn't want someone i'd been intimate with in any sense to hold secrets from me. What if I bring up kids? She gets to call it truth because she assumes i'm talking about adoption?

It adds up.






I don't view it the same way i'm afraid. There is lying by omission, i'm not saying I don't see a post-op trans M-T-F for instance as a woman (i'll save that debate for someone it'd be pertinent to) but at the same time, me introducing her as such w/out the information that she was once a man, would be lying by omission.

In any relationships i'm in, I am bluntly honest about things that matter to me, me and my girlfriend have even joked about what would happen if she was transexual (I know she's a woman) and I said the same thing. The topic is posed to an individual perspective, I don't get into relationships casually really and ask questions for the purpose to find out if someone is long-term material for me.

In the relationships i've been in, i've been open ended with things that were shameful, embarrassing, etc. Not to mention not all transgenders view it as you, its a shameful thing to some? So is being gay (to some people) with two people I worked with, my manager for example was PROUD of her girlfriend--her girlfriend was shy and embarrassed. I am mentioning what a preference is to me here, come out with it. Now my boss was a jackass and was harsh, but I respected her for that.

Saying you're a woman now, knowing chromosomally you aren't--isn't open ended honesty, its selective truth.

I don't understand your rejecting your current genitals.

The thing is, I don't need to understand that. All I need to know is that it is important to you, whether or not it makes sense to me or I could possibly imagine myself feeling that way (which I can't).

In the same way, it doesn't matter if you understand why many heterosexuals would be disturbed by the idea of being with a transsexual. That it could be distressing is what you need to know.

Good thing I'm gay then, eh?

I will never understand rejecting or being distressed by a person just because they're different to most other people. I don't understand feeling repulsed if I saw my partner in the shower and they had different genitals to what I'd expected, or realising that my partner was intersex, or if they liked dressing in frilly underpants.

Rejecting my current genitals costs the NHS a little bit of money, yes (which I fully intend to pay back), but it does no harm to anyone else. Rejecting another person for something they couldn't help is something rather different, isn't it?

I understand your point. Sorry for saying that what you were saying was not logic. I apologize.

It's just that I know how some people can have great fear of being humiliated and degraded from saying their secrets. But I guess that with a super honest person like you or me or with most aspie, the partner shouldn't feel that much fear and they would probably be honest very fast. I guess that if you're a very honest and open-minded person you should expect your partner not to hide anything from you. It make sense. It's different with close-minded people though. That's why some people have to hide things for years.

Its ok, everything that you've posted is thought provoking.

Warning: Possibly tmi choose to read at your leisure.

I get what you're saying. I've actually done something similar to the thing you suggest when I was younger as it concerns race. I wasn't this persons bf or anything, but I was interested in meeting them (knew them online).

I encountered a lot of racism in the area I grew up in and they did stop talking to me simply for the fact that I was African American. I confronted them later and they acted as if to apologize and that they were joking.

This happened twice actually, a second person who I didn't "like" at all, but kept saying they loved me and cared about me, they knew literally nothing about me, but when that casually slipped out, in come the racial slurs.

Being prejudged is one of the most horrible things to face, so I get your reasoning entirely.

Its incredibly hard for me to be dishonest, i've spent weeks grounded by ratting myself out.

I made it a rule when I got older tho, that people I respect i'd be honest with and people I didn't, i'd be wary of.

Nice post pudding.

No I don't. I have a few anecdotes, a few stories here and there, but mostly its the reality of my first point that makes me believe it's largely a waste of time. In that being accepted by ones "romantic target group" would largely define the success or failure of gender reassignment.



Well thank you for acknowledging that, and yes I'm usually right about these things.



No it's not...



You don't have to understand it, but you do have to accept it.



I don't think anyone in this thread, let alone me, has suggested that gender reassignment is in itself harmful to anyone but the person undergoing the surgery. But I guarantee you that a transsexual sleeping with someone without revealing who they are can be very harmful.

Video unrelated
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGFToiLtXro[/youtube]

This is not the point, and I've said so before, at least twice.

I have a foot fetish. Women's feet are very attractive to me. If I were to stick a pretty girl's clean toes into a sleeping guy's mouth and wake him up, I couldn't understand him feeling repulsed by that. Nevertheless, it would be an extremely mean thing to do to him. Many guys are grossed out by feet, even though feet are washable.

I can't understand why, but I don't need to. All I need to know is that it would be repulsive to many. Putting someone in a situation that they would be repulsed by is mean.


As long as you aren't lying about it to romantic partners, then yes, it is harmless.


If you mean that rejecting someone for being incompatible with you is mean, then no it isn't.

I reject all men for being men, even though there is nothing wrong with being a man, they can't help being a man, I am a man myself, and I have nothing against men. There's nothing mean about that.

Lets put it this way. If someone is a woman I go for her personality. If that person is a man, I find them repulsive based on their body. If someone is trans, then part of me views them as men so what I just said about men applies.

Now, even if I was attracted based on the body, and you don't understand why, that wouldn't give a right to anyone I "should be" attracted to to rape me. Similarly, no one has the right to mislead me into picking someone whom I wouldn't have picked otherwise, even if they disagree with my way of choosing partners.



It harms the person you are going to date, if that person does nto want to date transsexuals and they only are dating you because you haven't told them you are trans.

When you say it "doesnt harm them" you are saying it because YOU won't be harmed if you had to date transsexual. But you can't use yourself and yoru own preferences in order to judge whether others would be harmed or not.

Lets forget a gender thing for a while. Think of rape. If a man rapes a woman, she is harmed. But if that same man goes out with another woman, she is not harmed at all and in fact enjoys the relationshp a great deal. So we are speaking of EMOTIONAL harm, and emotional harm is subjective to a person you are with. If the person is open to dating transsexuals they won't be harmed. If they are not open then yes they will be.

This being said, you have to trust what other people tell you about THEIR preference. You are basically insisting on using your own preference in determining whether other people will be harmed or not. In other words, you are saying other people are too shallow to know about htemselves (after all if they weren't so shallow they wouldn't have rejected you to begin with) and you "know better". Now since you insist that other people can't use their point of view to decide what is best for you, you shouldn't do it to them, either.

This is not a good analogy. No one makes up a default assumption that someone they are dating is NOT an aspie, or they have NOT been raped as a kid. At the same time, they DO make a default assumption that the person they are dating IS a genuine man or a genuine woman. Therefore, in the former case they are not mislead; in the latter case they are.

I mean, when you go out to date someone, one of the central points is that "you are a man and she is a woman", or visa versa. The fact that "you are both NT" or that "neither of you have been raped before" is NOT a "central point"; these are some "side issues" that might and might not complicate things. So most people assume that they are given complete information about what is central while something might be skipped about everything else.

Also think of numbers. Stats show that approximately 20% of population are diagnosed with SOMETHING. So there is no reason to assume that the person does not have any diagnoses. I don't know the rape statistics; but again I imagine that rape is quite common (I even read somewhere that almost 50% of women were raped in one way or another although I am not sure if I can trust that source or not). So again, no one makes an assumption you have NOT been raped. On the other hand being trans is quite rare, thats why people DO make default assumption about it.

Now I understand that the statistics of Asperger is a fraction of percent which is much smaller than 20%. But most NT-s don't think "aspie vs non-aspie"; they think along the lines "have something vs don't have anything", that is why 20% applies. In case of transsexual they DO think "genuine man/woman vs non-genuine". Being transsexual is not just "one of the many differences people can have". Being trans is something that shoots down the BASIC assumption that the other person is "of the opposite gender". So yes, it does form its own category. And, given how rare it is, most people would assume you are NOT transsexual so they will feel mislead if it turns out that you are, and they were not told.

I'd date his mother to get revenge for the deception.