Consequences in "why to ask first"

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So, the crusade against the straw man continues. For someone of the OP's intelligence, the article in the OP is a laughably weak illustration of the message being promoted. I mean, it's weak even by straw man standards! Nobody knows the facts of that case and the guy hasn't even been charged, let alone convicted. Of course, if you're just trying to stir the pot yet again - congratulations, it's working. 8 pages and counting.

I fully agree with your that women hiding away in their homes isn't the solution but seeing as there will apparently always be some men out there who are ready and willing to rape women what do you propose? Personally I don't know any men who have either committed rape or who would be likely to commit rape - but what does anyone know really about another person and what hidden demons they carry, so I'm doubtful that any more "education" would help matters. Men know it is wrong and immoral to rape, murder or commit various other crimes, but they are already educated to know that, but some just don't care they commit these crimes anyway.

What would YOU have said to your daughter in the scenario I gave? I'd really like to know.

yes, because it's not at all a valuable lesson for the man in the article or anyone else that if he had simply asked and made sure the woman was cool with whatever it is that he did to her sexually before he did it, he wouldn't be currently having his life ruined in the public eye and we wouldn't be needing to have this discussion about why consent is so important. if he had understood back then that "she didn't say no" isn't good enough, he wouldn't be where he is.

i don't have a daughter (or a son), and very specifically so i don't have to have these kinds of conversations with a child. i wouldn't do anyone the disservice of trying to raise them in this world.

People might not come running to your aid when you blow a whistle, but I'm damn sure the odds are better if you use one than if you don't. Doubly so if you have a weapon or some means with which to defend yourself. I'm not blaming the victim--the perpetrator is entirely at fault-- but we shouldn't teach people not to take precautions.

Also, the responsibility is not on men, the responsibility is on rapists. And I don't know any rapists, but the heinous nature of the crime suggests, to me, that they won't be receptive to "yeah, don't do this, it's bad". Therefore, precautions must be taken. If there are serious scientific studies that disprove this, I would like to see them.

We don't try telling murderers and burglars and arsonists to be better people. We teach people what to do when they refuse to. Why does rape get special treatment?

Implying someone here wants all women to wear burqas is the ultimate straw man. You see, most of us usually find a woman?s figure a pleasant sight. And there?s a big difference between this and wanting to assault her, but I don?t seriously expect at this point to be able to prevent tarantella64 and starvingartist from construing this as though I?m defending rape.

If I lived in a society where women wore burqas, I probably wouldn?t yet know what they look like.

I would advise even my theoretical son of not wearing this shirt; but once he (she) get older who's gonna stop him/her anyway.

I do not and will never take , blame, guilt, for what a another man does. nore would I for what another US citzen does.
as I would not ask you to for women who mistreat men or are materialistic. it is not your responsiblitiy to fix those women as it is not mine to fix those men.

i would not go to a dangerous neighborhood that i know muggings happen then say it was non of my fault. I can't swim so I stay out of the river. if i go in and drown is it the river's fault?

if you know an area has had rapes in the past why wouldn't you avoid that area? how is saying to avoid areas with crime saying its the womans fault to get raped. it isn't her fault just as if i get mugged going into an area with high mugging rates, its not my fault, but I could have avoided it.

as for dress. if you show your boobs ecpect to get glances. If i walked around with my penish showing i would get a whole lot more then glances. if i even just were pants taht showed its form or wore shorts that were so small you could see my balls. I would get a ticket or jail, but women can do these things and its find then if a guy stares or says something he's just sexisit and objectifiing her. we are biologically driven to see each others body as sexual its to get us to reproduce. its not needed now but we can't just rid our selves of it. so I think if its not ok for a man to dress like that then it shouldn't' be for a woman.

doesn't ok rape, but a glance isn't bad or rape. openly staring is. but you can't rid humans of the human instincts.

I carry protection, i lock my doors, I watch around me. I stay out of bad areas. if the cops say theres a lot of drug dealers on such streat stay away I stay away.

I can't se how that is saying its the victim's fault. we as people will always examin stuff and say if they hadn't done that then they would have avoided it.

this guy got stabbed in his car, he had left his door unlocked so while fighting with one another came up behind him. as he looked back he thought if Id locked my car doors when I drove off from my house then that guy wouldn't been able to do that. is he blaming himself. is he taking the blame off the two guys who tried to kill him. no.

Let's not forget the other sources that promote that sort of mentality: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7xf-oj4X8A

Seems timely:

http://reason.com/blog/2014/08/26/nail- ... rape-drugs

There's quite a bit more in that vein in the original article, including links to examples.

Actually, his real mistake was not appreciating the due process shredding, shoot first ask questions later digital lynchmob that is online feminism and attempting to explain his side of things rather than just grabbing a lawyer and presenting his accuser with a legally binding 'evidence, please?'. He is where he is because his story is useful for some people to push an agenda, and those people don't particularly care about the harm done by treating someone as if they're guilty until proven innocent. Talk about victim blaming...

I think you've missed the point. The guy has indeed been charged and convicted in one of the few courts that matter.

Go on ahead and cling to the idea, Dox, but the fact is he's not welcome at an industry conference, not a speculum party. Whole bunch of people, men and women, many of whom understand why (a) doing what he did and (b) attempting to brush it off as lady-vaporing are bad ideas in a business community. Frankly, even if he'd been the tool he was back then, but been willing and able to recognize it today and say so, he'd be okay now, instead of calling himself unemployable.

If you're carrying around the idea that the only sexual harassment that counts is documented with a rape kit, and you're pushing that to the limit, you ought to take note.

eta: I'm watching what's going on with registration at this formerly incredibly popular, gotta-be-there sciwriting conference...it's crickets and tumbleweeds. There's no buzz, registration's a quarter of what it used to be. All because of one guy who just had to go macking on the ladies in the business, when all they were after was a job.

Last edited by tarantella64 on 28 Aug 2014, 10:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Men need to think of it as getting confirmation that she is willing, not as "asking for permission".
You may be able to read body language perfectly all the time but most people here are aspies who are not very good at reading signals, so it is probably better to make sure that they're interpreting girls' signals right.
They can just say "wanna kiss?" And if she is really into you she won't be so easily turned off by you saying that. And also you can avoid being accused of sexual assault.

Totally true. Also, if you're that scared of losing dominance and are that easily humiliated in love, I kinda question whether you ought to be dating at all.

No, really, I need this explained, not just a *facepalm*. Perhaps by tarantella64 rather than startvingartist as starvingartist never actually said that one needs to ask permission, but tarantella64 certainly does seem to be speaking for me (or at least, trying to coach people on how to treat me).