Oh girls have it so much worse....
The_Face_of_Boo
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That's because an asexual woman don't "want" sex, she agrees to it even if she doesn't want it. Thus, according to your definition, having sex with an asexual woman in a marriage is marital rape.
If she verbally agrees to sex yet she doesn't enjoy it - that wouldn't be rape, just bad sex.
If she doesn't agree to sex at that moment, even if she generally enjoyed sex with him before- but he forced sex on her at that same given moment - that would still be a rape case.
and I think a sexual person should not marry an asexual in the first place.
What is it? He likes women, and she likes them too?
Btw in the case mentioned before the dumper is still superficial.
I don't know if you refer to me, but I was not devaluing sex at all.
We have to weight the possibilities of using false claims to gain advantages against scenarios of real rapes in marriages, also taking into consideration general violence. In doing that consideration, if there is no violence in a relationship, then a real rape would typically lead to a breakup (nothing stopping her from leaving), and this is a low-probability situation because a man can only do this once. If rape occurs in the context of violence, then the man might very well be able to stop his wife from a breakup, and could do this for a long time. However, this is a general violence situation that is already covered by laws against violence. The probability of women using false claims, IMHO, is a high-probability situation. Thus, dealing with violence in marriages is sufficient, and also solves most of the rape cases, and an additional law against marital rape serves no purpose.
You might very well disagree with my reasoning on this, but then so be it.
That's because an asexual woman don't "want" sex, she agrees to it even if she doesn't want it. Thus, according to your definition, having sex with an asexual woman in a marriage is marital rape.
If she verbally agrees to sex yet she doesn't enjoy it - that wouldn't be rape, just bad sex.
Yes, but you used the word "want", and not "agree". If you change to "agree", I'd have no problem with it.
Yes, but this happens and will continue to happen due to asexuality being more common in women than men.
I didn't say it didn't exist, only that laws against marital rape makes no sense. It serves no function other than giving women another tool to get back at spouses after a divorce.
A woman can also lie about rape rather she is married or not to get back at her boyfriend or a guy she went out with.
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CockneyRebel
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*(I would rather calling it "she is not allowing relationship to develop sexually" instead of 'sex denial' because it's not like I am going to feel entitled to it to the point to explicitly demand sex in order to be denied for it in return).
But if it's coming from a non-religious or atheist girl whom I know she has no problem with pre-marital sex, then I would interpret that as an absence or lack of physical attraction from her side toward me - and yeah, that would be a turn off that would ruin the relationship.
Six months sounds like a great idea. That will select-out all the sex-manics for sure. I'd prefer "until I want a child", but six months will be ok too.
I also like the six months or until I want a child for the same reason. I think that rule is quite reasonable.
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I am having trouble understanding why you claim girls have it worse. By your own admission, AS guys cant even get a date (compared to NT its not 'trouble', its 'disaster' in the fail scale whereas an AS girl getting a date is not very different from an NT girl..the guy does the approaching and you get the yes/no option).
The being prone to those abuses is something all women risk..after all, you're literally going out with someone you really don't know much about. AS women have a harder time identifying the abusive types that is true... but here's the kicker: You actually get to the point where you have a date and you have the chance, however difficult, to spot the abuser or not.
AS guys also have a risk of abuse from women and while it is unlikely to be physical in nature it certainly is in the emotional and financial side.... I cannot tell you how common it is that the ONE girl that actually wants to go out ends up doing it only because you're useful to her... in college or at work or simply to get stuff. Once she has what she needs you cease to exist. Just like you cannot identify the abusers we cannot identify the manipulators. They're both the same personality anyway, its just that a male manipulator usually is also physical.
Statistically speaking, it is worse to have very low success at getting a date and then run into similar chances of that person being a manipulator than to have lots of chances to date and in each one run into that chance of the person being a manipulator every time.
...and there is the soul crushing effect of not being able to get a date to begin with. The 'forever alone' thing is literal in the alone part; imo, a girl that can get dates even if they dont work out isn't feeling this at all, she is wanted and sought after. Granted, the pain of being wanted for her body not for who she is is a different kind of pain and equally bad but you at least are getting multiple chances at finding the one guy that will not be like that. Guys don't get those chances.
Frankly, all the make-up and dressing up (or dressing to show the body) is not something guys use to decide on which girl to date. If anything, dressing up to show your body only signals to us your sexuality and its no wonder the kind of guys that go for them do so just for the body not the person. A girl in t-shirt and jeans is as attractive as one in a fancy/sexy dress. If you got the beauty the guy likes thats how he will choose...not because of make up or dress.
Guys choose who to approach based on their looks that is no secret. But looks isn't the dress or the makeup, its the face, the body shape, the voice and the body language that determines who they go for. So honestly, what you wear or what makeup you use doesn't really count for us. Heck, I think its more of competing between women that these things exist.
From observation and experience I would say women go for verbal attitude and body language before you filter a guy out for his looks. This makes it easier for a guy to fake what the woman wants (a skill I stand in awe of) than for her to fake her looks.
As for the garments that give the hourglass shape... those things really don't work in girl's favor. Let's be frank here, if things get to the point of getting naked he's going to find out and when he does it will hurt his perception of you lots more than if you had not used it. Not because 'oh man they're not what I like' but more of 'i've been deceived' type of reaction.
my 0.2 cents worth of gas into this fire.
Sweetleaf
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I am having trouble understanding why you claim girls have it worse. By your own admission, AS guys cant even get a date (compared to NT its not 'trouble', its 'disaster' in the fail scale whereas an AS girl getting a date is not very different from an NT girl..the guy does the approaching and you get the yes/no option).
The being prone to those abuses is something all women risk..after all, you're literally going out with someone you really don't know much about. AS women have a harder time identifying the abusive types that is true... but here's the kicker: You actually get to the point where you have a date and you have the chance, however difficult, to spot the abuser or not.
AS guys also have a risk of abuse from women and while it is unlikely to be physical in nature it certainly is in the emotional and financial side.... I cannot tell you how common it is that the ONE girl that actually wants to go out ends up doing it only because you're useful to her... in college or at work or simply to get stuff. Once she has what she needs you cease to exist. Just like you cannot identify the abusers we cannot identify the manipulators. They're both the same personality anyway, its just that a male manipulator usually is also physical.
Statistically speaking, it is worse to have very low success at getting a date and then run into similar chances of that person being a manipulator than to have lots of chances to date and in each one run into that chance of the person being a manipulator every time.
...and there is the soul crushing effect of not being able to get a date to begin with. The 'forever alone' thing is literal in the alone part; imo, a girl that can get dates even if they dont work out isn't feeling this at all, she is wanted and sought after. Granted, the pain of being wanted for her body not for who she is is a different kind of pain and equally bad but you at least are getting multiple chances at finding the one guy that will not be like that. Guys don't get those chances.
Frankly, all the make-up and dressing up (or dressing to show the body) is not something guys use to decide on which girl to date. If anything, dressing up to show your body only signals to us your sexuality and its no wonder the kind of guys that go for them do so just for the body not the person. A girl in t-shirt and jeans is as attractive as one in a fancy/sexy dress. If you got the beauty the guy likes thats how he will choose...not because of make up or dress.
Guys choose who to approach based on their looks that is no secret. But looks isn't the dress or the makeup, its the face, the body shape, the voice and the body language that determines who they go for. So honestly, what you wear or what makeup you use doesn't really count for us. Heck, I think its more of competing between women that these things exist.
From observation and experience I would say women go for verbal attitude and body language before you filter a guy out for his looks. This makes it easier for a guy to fake what the woman wants (a skill I stand in awe of) than for her to fake her looks.
As for the garments that give the hourglass shape... those things really don't work in girl's favor. Let's be frank here, if things get to the point of getting naked he's going to find out and when he does it will hurt his perception of you lots more than if you had not used it. Not because 'oh man they're not what I like' but more of 'i've been deceived' type of reaction.
my 0.2 cents worth of gas into this fire.
It was meant as satire, I don't really think girls have it harder across the board, nor do I think that of guys. Anyways I acknowledged some guys here can't get dates...it is however not true that getting dates/relationships is the same for a neurotypical female as an autistic female, we are going to have more difficulties than neurotypical counterparts in this area to. The problems are a bit different, sure much of the time an autistic female can have someone initially approach them since guys approaching women to ask them out is more 'normal' than the other way around, I can see that being very frustrating for a guy on the spectrum with the same issue I have which is being physically unable to approach/start talking to people I don't know. But autistic girls can also easily get taken advantage of by guys who may pick up on their social issues or whatever and exploit that....or since many of us are more akward/uncomfortable in social situations the 'getting hit on when you don't want it' can get to be very stressful/overwhelming especially if you don't even know how to react to it. Then you can get put in the 'cold b*tch' box because you're not receptive to the 'flirting' or they may mistake it for playing hard to get when you're just not intrested.
It is true males especially on the spectrum are also more vulnerable to abuse than neurotypicals...and it does seem much of the time female abuse is more psychological in nature, though some get plenty physical. Also statistics don't say if something is better or worse...in my experience lots of failed dates/relationships is worse than before when I hadn't really experienced the dating world as far as how it feels after its said and done. But that is how I feel about it, some people could view it the other way but attempting to use a one size fits all approach simplifies too much. Also you cannot just say 'autistic guys don't get any chances to date' I mean there are males on here who have had dates/relationships...some who have not had one will already catagorize themselves as being forever single at the age of 23-25, its like damn....there is still time. But a lot of your post is rather insightful and true...I mean no amount of clothing items to force your body into a certain shape is going to do any good once the clothes are off. And I could see a guy feeling kind of hurt over it not because they have to have some super skinny sex goddess but simply because it would make them feel deceived...and I suppose it is more society that tries to say how girls ought to look, but not much to do with actual taste males have in women when it comes down to it. I mean there are guys who like bigger/heavier females, skinny guys even....but if you listen to most media you'd probably think you have no chances unless you're skinny.
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Sweetleaf
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I don't think dismissing sex could ever be shallow in our sexualized culture. People that come to the conclusion that sex is not something they want are much deeper and self-aware than sexual people that just floats around. I even think a fair amount of sexual people are only into sex because everybody else is, and thus haven't gained self-awareness at all. It's simply something you are expected to do and like.
I really do not think you can base how deep and self aware someone is upon whether or not they enjoy sex. It is also possible some people that come to the conclusion sex is not something they want are doing it just to be 'unique' from the sexualized culture, Or they might think they are more self aware than they are....I don't think getting to a stage of not wanting sex the end all be all of gaining the most self awareness....wouldn't it be the opposite if someone deemed themselves asexual but then found out otherwise?
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Sweetleaf
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Martial rape makes absolutely no sense.
What??!
It doesn't because a marriage is something you can leave, and all such laws could possibly achieve is to promote revenge by women and ammunition in custody-struggles. If you haven't negotiated the rules for how your sex-life is supposed to work, you should not have gotten married at all.
And, let's face it, many asexual women don't want sex from their spouses, yet they still allow it as a compromise. Would that also constitute rape in your opinion?
In my opinion, a marriage contract includes "I allow sex" (unless you have negotiated otherwise), and this is far more formal than any other sexual contact that is not formalized, and especially one-night-stands with a lot of compliments and possibly being talked into it (and later regretting the whole thing).
Yes but consent has to happen every time even if the marriage contract includes sex...that does not mean the husband can demand sex whenever he wants and the wife has to give it to him. Both parties still have to agree to have sex on all occasions sex is had or yes it would be rape on the part of whoever forces the sex.
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Sweetleaf
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See, I don't have a problem if you say such a thing! But she keeps saying that women get easier into abusive relationship, and men are not more abusive than women. That is what bothers me.
Well I cannot spell it out any better...guys do not have a special gene or brain function that makes them all more likely to abuse than females. Seems like you were trying to suggest I am claiming guys in general are just more abusive...which is not a proper thing to get out of the claim women are more vulnerable to abusive relationships. I mean I really don't know how else to explain it....maybe read up on how statistics actually work, because I obviously cannot break it down well enough.
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I don't get why some asexual people come here and say that no sex until they want a child is a good way to keep away pervers interested only in sex. As some Persian messenger would say, this is madness.
Sorry, I understand your point now. For the reasons I said I don't agree with you that women (women in general, not ND specifically) are more vulnerable and I think that it is a stereotype, but I respect your opinion.
Why is that madness? I think it is a perfectly working strategy. Especially if you are asexual.
Yes, but I don't find the Western "consent-model" very useful. Why should we specifically need to consent to sex? Why not for flirting with each others too? Or even looking at somebody might require consent? Or merely breathing?
But I have a nice little alternative proposition that likely would wipe out NTs: Sexual intercourse without wanting to bread should become illegal with death penalty as the punishment.
Because it is stupid. You are going to chase away normal people too along with the perverts. You say that it is good just because you don't need sex, and you behave as if women were mostly asexual. Also stop acting cool, you sound like a guy without hands who acts holy because he doesn't masturbate.
The_Face_of_Boo
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