Friendzone

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vc6PK7aqTO0
This is from infowars and I will admit I am not a fan of Alex Jones(he's not in the video, but a guy on his site is), however this is the best video to accurately describe capitalism, TRUE capitalism. What you are referring to Sly, is Corporatism.

There is alway a need for re-stating this "obvious" fact when there seems to be at least one person who just doesn't get it, or when someone believes that a relationship is something akin to an inalienable right, and that not being in a relationship is somehow a crime (or at least a moral travesty).

So I'll say it again: No one is entitled to a relationship; you have to earn one, just like you would earn any other privilege.

^^ yes. This.

Noöne is entitled to a relationship, but it doesn't follow from this that the friendzone doesn't exist.

What is the friendzone?

Feeling more for someone than they do for you? That'd be unrequited love. One of the oldest stories.

Someone abusing their knowledge of this to get you to do stuff for them they wouldn't someone else? That's a skeevy, dodgy relationship, and again nothing new - get out.

Having someone want to be your friend? Not being able to get a romantic partner? That's just taking the piss.

The friendzone doesn't exist. Not because no-one is entitled to a relationship, or any other reason, but because the friendzone doesn't exist.

What the term does do is allow the 'friendzoned' a certain passive victimhood. It's a stupid, ugly, timid word and, unlike the situations it seeks to describe but twists about in the process, it will never inspire great works of art. Just a load of pissing and moaning and martyrdom.

It's called being friends with someone.

Society has simply slapped a different word over it and claimed it's something different if it's a heterosexual male/heterosexual female friendship.

Friendzone is essentially unrequited love and friendship combined, having friendship with the source of your unrequited love.

It also doesn't have to necessarily be a bad friendship where one person hurts the other's feelings by continuing to tlk about other males/females and saying that stupid stuff like 'Oh if only I could find a nice guy/girl like YOU' and yet not date them.

While a 'victim' of the friendzone may be very likely to feel emotionally hut sometiems when their feelings are ignored, sometimes the source of unrequited love won't tease them or remind them of their feelings or anything lke that,, but simply not be interested further than friendship.

But like I stated much earlier, some men (or women) who are 'friendzoned' might think they actually have any sort of chance of getting out in the first place or avoiding it.

I don't agree with this at all. It's more likely you lost from the very start.

I might have to find some sources later, but apparently some women can psychologically decide in the first few seconds of meeting a male her opinion of him and how far he would ever get if he were to be interested in her in that way. I'm sure plenty of males could as well. I know I have done stuff like that before.

Another interpretation I have of the friendzone is that it is a 'filter' for the actual negative feelings associated with rejection. Almost like a form of denial. Instead of accepting you've been rejected and she doesn't want to actually be frends and she's just saying that to be polite, you still blindly delude yourself into thinking she wants to be friends on purpose, so instead of feeling the pain and heart ache before moving on, you hold onto false hopes and become her 'friend'. Her friend who always happens to be there for her, her friend who coincidentally gives her flowers and choclate on valentine's day as a sign of their 'friendship', the friend who always listens to her complain about other guys.

In short: A manipulative a-h•le who couldn't take no for an answer, so he tries to take a backdoor way in. Also known as Nice Guy™.

DEATH TO CAPTCHA

Who doesn't just get it? Don't worry, I'm sure you'll find someone you can misrepresent to make it look like they don't just get it.

I still maintain that not a single person on this thread ever stated they believe they have a right to be in a relationship.

The friendzone does exist because it's a synonym for unrequited love. It follows, unrequited love exists, friendzone is another word for unrequited love, therefor friendzone exists.Well, it certainly is passive. If the OP took a more proactive role in seeking a relationship he might have more dates and less friendzoning. If only he knew how to get a date. Except that if he new that he probably wouldn't have needed to start this thread.

The OP's opening post says he wants advice on how to attract women. Hey I've got an idea, why don't we give him some advice on how to attract women instead of accusing him saying he's entitled to a relationship when he didn't actually say that.

This is not the strawman argument thread. He wants to be in a relationship. That doesn't mean he thinks he's entitled to be in a relationship or has a right to be in a relationship or that he's demanding to be in a relationship. It just means he wants to be in a relationship.

Yes, due to poor dating skills on the OP's part, he didn't properly ask these girls out. He's admitted that. That's why he asked for advice on courting girls. Because thus far he didn't do a very good job of it. So he's not saying that girls should jump into a relationship just because he wants one, he's saying there are proper methods of courtship that he's not well acquainted with, and if only someone would kindly give him some tips on asking a girl out, he'd have a reasonable chance at getting a date just like everyone else.

And what he said about not wanting to be in this position again (in his opening post), it doesn't mean that he's trying to force the girls who friendzoned him previously to be in a relationship with him when they don't want to be. It just means he wants some L&D tips so the next time he meets a girl, he'll take a proactive role in being attractive to them, so they don't think of him merely as a friend.

Yes in an ideal world he would already know all about how to ask a girl out. He doesn't know all about that so he asks for advice. Then he's essentially blamed for not already knowing. It's rather like a teacher saying "I wouldn't have to teach you if only you already knew everything".

Then you all accuse him of being entitled. I'll admit if he thought he should get a date without taking proper measures to attract women, that would be entitlement. His opening post is the oppisite. It asks how he can attract women not how can get a date without attracting them.

L&D must be turning into a real quagmire if people ask for advice on how to do something and then the mob blames him for not already knowing the answer to the question he just asked. If he already knew the answer, he wouldn't have to ask it. What good is a support forum if someone can't ask a question?

Extreme black and white thinking is a far more damaging aspie handicap than social awkwardness, fyi. If you decide you're destined to fail, you almost certainly will.

Your attitude is making a difficult situation nearly impossible. There are now absolutes in dating and even if what you said about women having it easier is true, it's an irrelevent generalization. Girls dont like people who resent them for something they havent done or think they are cruel just for not reciprocating your feelings.

I would start by never talking about the "friendzone" again. Using that term unironically is basically dating kryptonite. You don't have to be Superman, but not being a bitter sad sack is a start.

I think you meant to type "There are NO absolutes in dating and even if what you said about women having it easier is true, it's an irrelevent generalization."

The rest of what you posted is simply true.

As retrogamer said, I am looking for tips/advice on how to take a more proactive role in dating, and how to ask girls out so I can have a better chance at being attractive to them rather than simply "friend material" with them. I am aware I need to be friends with girls before dating them, but I don't wanna be in the position where its the type of friend they wouldn't even pay any mind too in regards to courtship.
My problem is while I can be friends with girls it is only ever friends, I am 22 and wanna start dating before I am old and ugly, and at this rate that could happen unless I get help.

RetroGamer87 - Friendzone =/= unrequited love. They are not synonyms. It is a different concept, and has different qualities. It makes the 'friendzoned' passive, rather than active, and denigrates friendship. Unrequited love is I have this love for x, but it is not returned. It recognises the agency of the speaker. 'Friendzone' is passive. It is something that happens to one, rather than something one does.

That is a difference. And that passive victimhood is where one can get a whiff of entitlement.

Words matter.

As to the OP - how we conceive of a problem is in itself part of the problem. It is not just that I find how the OP originally put it or his attitude to women (echoed time and again through this forum) objectionable. It is that the way the OP thinks about things are themselves unhelpful, and obstruct any solutions that a different perspective may provide.

If I may attempt a metaphor: one must prepare the ground before sowing the seeds.

I would disagree that you need to be friends with girls before dating them, in a chronological sense. I do agree that the basis of a relationship is a good, strong friendship, but it's not like that as a foundation has to be put in before one starts dating. It is in dating that one tries to build that foundation.

What do you want from a relationship? What are you attracted to? What circles do you move in? Where do you interact with others/socialise? What are your interests? Have you tried internet dating? What do you have to offer? Is the type of woman you're attracted to in turn attracted to the type of man you are?

One could say 'be of good, strong character', but that's a lot easier said than done, and in itself may require certain experiences as a catalyst. I think, 'dress appropriate, stand up straight, smile nicely and just ask her out to somewhere you think she'd enjoy' would be standard stuff. But, how useful is that to you? You're the one who has to act on this advice.

Advice needs specifics. It would be wasted advice to say 'dress smart and get a good haircut' to a punk rocker who was into punk rockers.

Actually that is not entirely true, sometimes a guy and a female friend might develop feelings for each other and decide to try dating. But its not required to become regular 'friends' with a woman to date them, in fact doing that can be misleading because if your intent is to date but you just act like a friend then they might feel betrayal when you eventually reveal those feelings. Best bet with a female you like but don't know very well is to just initially ask them out so your intent is clear. I didn't really become regular friends with my boyfriend before we started dating...he messeged me on okcupid, I responded, we met up a couple times and concluded we both really liked each other and wanted to continue seeing each other.

Most people don't really regard what they see as their platonic friends as people to pay any mind to in regards to courtship.

Sorry d00d, but life is NOT a meritocracy. And especially when it comes to relations with other people(platonic or romantic)!
You don't *earn* someone's love and attraction, you elicit that response. No one is entitled to a relationship and that is true.....But some privileges aren't earned, they are inherited or simply given out by other individuals. That's why this is one of the most frustrating areas of life: It is beyond ones control and effort often goes unrewarded.

You do realize there are poor women as well, its as if you think all women are middle class and higher. My boyfriend certainly is not 'edging into the middle class' but I don't care. I like his personality, how we get along and we have quite a few similar interests to participate in together but yes we'd both classify as poor.

I wonder on the other hand how guys typically feel about poor women, granted there are plenty who wouldn't care or see it as a dealbreaker...but what about the ones who would? Not so sure poor females are seen in such a positive light either. And I doubt every male struggling with a relationship is willing to just accept any female who expresses interest, regardless of anything.

But you are right you cannot make women who specifically want a guy with a middle class income or higher change their preferences...but note that is not every womens preference.