Women have to deal with "too nice" syndrom too

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I have found that IF I was attracted to a female,
I would want to fall into bed with them, and it
was somewhat of a task to avoid doing so.

On the other hand, I've had a number of
female friends for whom I had no attraction
at all - and became friends much as I would
with males.

I don't think in it as a "spent of time". What happen is that men are probably "easy", and probably go to bed with a friend if she wants it.

It's a strange thing this whole issue of niceness.

Being told to be nice growing up, I have imbeded it into my personality. And whenever there is a social rule I try to be accomadating (unless the rule is completely pointless... then I may actively ignore it) and I have grown comfortable with myself. I like myself the way I am.

But then I have slowly learned over the years that there is all these games being played, and niceness doesn't account for much in the grand scheme of atractiveness. Well, what the heck... I don't want to change myself to something I am not (and to something I would hate myself for). I like my timidness, my cautious nature, my over analyizing. It is a part of my personality, but then people tell me it is all wrong... and you have to be a little more rude and just go out and be the "alpha" male. I don't want to do that, I couldn't live with myself if I acted like an "alpha" male.

The only issue I can think of why a guy wouldn't want a girl to be too nice, is that it can be a intimidating. If they do many nice things, a guy may not be prepared to reciprocate and can feel uncomfortable. But it still doesn't make sense why they would go and run to these high maitenance girls that are jerks. I don't understand it when girls do this, and I understand it even less when guys do it... since I am a guy... it confounds me.

Ditto. I can see sticking up for one's self but I've got a story about me and some of my 'alpha male' buds, one's my roommate and another's an ex army-ranger who's so jack up on testosterone that he talks a bit fast and jackhammers from it. We were at a bar with like 10 people from a house party, we'd walked up the street and found a place to chill and drink at. There were a few girls at the bar and I wanted to get in to get a drink. When the one girl got up I ended up sitting down to get a drink myself. Her friend told me "Hey, my friend is sitting there" - I said fine, I'm just getting a drink, I'll be out in a minute. Then I started talking to one of my friends, the other girl came back, and my friends instantly got in my case over my shoulder like "Don't get up...that's YOUR seat...don't be a p****! Sit there! What!? This is a bar, no seat checks - tell that stupid b---- to get lost". In the meantime the girl who I'd talked to a second ago was going off on me a bit, I couldn't even look at her and she said something like "Sure, just ignore me - that's REAL manly". I stayed there for a while, got up, went down to the end of the bar, and then apologized to em like 10 or 15 minutes later. I was talking to another friend I came in with as well on just how pissed I was - particularly with my 2 buddies for putting me under that kind of pressure. They'd pretty much told me that I had to be a dick and an instigator for the sake of doing it, almost like you have to deliberately overstep your boundaries just to prove something, and I wanted to smack em both. You might think I should have been pissed at myself but this was also a time where I was almost willing to try anything and I was furious with myself for a lot of the things you mentioned of your own nature, I'd had it thrown at me for years that I was displaying some vulgar level of weakness and if the world really is a moral wasteland sometimes I've felt like my inability to cross my own morals was something that was sad, pathetic, and proved that I completely diserved to be genetically irrelevant if I was a coward in the world of the heartless. Anymore though I realize, I have to like myself. If that keeps me single indefinitely - so be it. If I do have something change at my deepest levels here I can be that kind of a***hole and function with it, that's fine too but I really don't think it ever will be in my nature and even moreso even if I got women with that I really don't think I'd like the end results or who I'd end up with from it anyway.



I don't think its a logical thing so much as a brainstem, instinct, and natural eugenics thing. Attraction's built pretty much in a way where it works in the interests of the general health of the gene pool (ie. alpha). Since nice = weakness in that area it kills attraction. Its not logical, its prison-thought, but thats our world from top to bottom anyway.

Yeah i agree with this.
I've wanted to try out most of my female friends.
The forbidden fruits always seem to taste so much better
But ya know society doesn't allow this unfortunately

Heh, maybe you should talk to my roommate. Unless she's been a friend's girlfriend he has a really hard time not banging anything he meets (particularly over 40 for some odd reason). I think I tend to hold a lot more ground sacred - I'm probably crazy, stupid, or old fashioned for it but its just how I'm built.

My trouble is unless their friends through friends or friend's girlfriends/fiances/wives I have trouble actually having female friends on their own aside from school or work acquaintances. Part of that seems that most women just aren't neutral with me, usually if they're talking to me their testing the waters and I've had at least a few times where I went to hang out with a girl that I met from somewhere and her family or friends were being rather unusually nice to me and had us go off to hang on our own. Otherwise if they don't like me they don't like me, they don't know me and have no desire to know me.

I think you're on the right track about the trend being biological. But as a woman, I feel that it is the same instincts that make me a good mother, which leave me vulnerable to men who are not particularly nice. (I don't go for the beefcake alcoholic caveman type, but I find myself moved by the dark, intelligent and moody kind of dangerous man.) Understand that I am NOT saying I want to mother men in a dominating way, but rather that the same nurturing, tender instincts are at play.

Speaking regarding feelings and urges here, not deliberate rational thoughts (which in some cases are contradictory): I don't see nice men as weak, I see them as not needing me. There is something in a woman (or in this one anyhow) which deeply craves to bring solace to those in distress. When I see a beautiful, deep man who is unhappy or self-destructive, I have grandiose, unrealistic, stupid thoughts of being the one who takes away the pain and I desire for him to treasure and protect me for what I am and what I do to him. I could be off on some of this... like I said earlier, it's difficult to reduce urges and instincts into words.

Sometimes such men are indeed appreciative of women like myself, but generally the girl's attentive and swooning feminine presence isn't enough to pull such a man out of the hole in which he is accustomed to wallowing, so the man hurts the woman without willing to do so. Much like a tiger, I suppose.

Other times the man is more like Ted Bundy, but that's another story.

As for the other way around, when men are attracted to mean women... I think it happens to be that beautiful women learn they can be mean and get away with it. I don't think men want to be treated poorly, but it is hard to find a beautiful girl who is conscious of this power to get away with being selfish and has decided not to use it.

Reading all this make me say :f*** humans of both genders .

I am keeping to stick to my computer and to my PSP (prince is hugging his PC and PSP) , at least these things are not shallow jerks and they never cheat you


I am going back to play Chrono trigger on PSP or some game on PC. c ya later !

Yeah, truth be told I think everyone is in need, just that some people from their own past have been grilled on their weaknesses being a lack of self-sufficiency, overcompensating for that can be a major pitfall in that sense. I think also what you described is very much dictated and situated by what type of distress the guy is in. I've heard stories of women who hang out around AA just to pick up guys just like many women who try to change gangsters (there was one particular actress on Law and Order who was 15, played a gangster, and strange enough died dating one). I'm sure you've noticed that the more aspiish distress though tends to be a turn-off, I think that's just an extension of where there's the problems and distresses of the weak and the problems and distresses of the strong - the later seem much more attractive where as the former repelling and its due to the fact that an alpha in need is easier to pick up, a beta - beta's aren't what's wanted to begin with. I really doubt women are doing the calculations like that and I think they intend to be much better people morally than what I just described but I think that's a process that happens. I wouldn't blame women either for this because its not fair, its just how women are built I think and guys are built just as if not more shallow on a lot of levels - all for the sake of the gene pool of course.



Anymore that really disgusts me. I think its because we all have the same capacity to feel, the same capacity to behold the world around us, the same capacity to be 'human', and yet we give so much to people who have looks that its no wonder they turn out a little stunted or schizophrenic on levels. I agree, a lot of women who are real attractive, if they aren't sheisty many still turn out a bit immature or reckless with people and its probably because having so many guys chasing them shifts their reality, they may have even been nice at first but it got old. Like across the street, my friend's girlfriend looks like Kate Beckinsale. You know what she does? Goes out to bars with her friends and gets free drinks all night from the guys, while we were cool with her at first that and a few other things (mainly self-absorption and a few backstabbing episodes) had that getting old with us. Don't get me wrong, I'm not myso and I see guys turn out just as bad if they're too good looking or too badass for their own good.

As for selfishness, I think we're naturally economics machines. When people who are good looking do turn shady, its because they've done the cost benefit analysis and found out that they can get all kinds of free stuff, free attention, all by being unrestrained and doing whatever the heck they want. Not that it happens to everyone, we all have different levels of ethical coding built into our minds and just like you could have 2 guys or girls who are the same in the looks department one could be more morally inclined and wouldn't like themselves for doing that, the other would hardly notice a difference. That much I think is just natural wiring and for better or worse its either there or it isn't.

I think the type of man you're describing would not be what some of us are talking about - at the extreme, the type of jerk/alpha male I mean would be someone like Attila the Hun (brutal, powerful, succesful, in no need of nurturing). Moody & intelligent, appreciative of a nice woman is another category (the ones I mean are the type that only appreciate looks in a woman). The jerks I mean would hurt the girl not because they couldn't help themselves, but out of indifference. Being attracted to jerks, like men going just for looks and not caring about her, has a biological basis but to me, to me both show a lack of emotional maturity.
I think that the 'nice girl' syndrome thing is more about rejecting a girl because she is nice, rather than going for a mean girl for reasons other than her meanness. The former seems to me extremely stupid, and has no biological excuse.

Yeah... you're probably right. I have never understood women who go for that, even if I think really hard. Not at all. Gross.



Does anybody else doubt that this phenomenon truly exists? I mean, all things equal, are there really men who would date a cruel, beautiful, intelligent woman over a kind, beautiful, intelligent woman?

...never mind. I just thought of two examples. I think some of them do it because of self-doubt, honestly. I think that nice women make them feel bad about themselves just by their very presence. It's like a walking reminder of one's naughtiness.

Another reason might be because a mean woman is more likely to go along with mean or degrading things that the guy likes to do, if that be the case.

It's completely irrational, its basis is purely biological. That's what i mean about a lack of maturity, it shows an inability to rise above one's most irrational, destructive instincts.

What I mean is... I don't think I even have those instincts. I'm not rising above the base biological desire to unf a footballer... the desire just isn't there.

I think this is pretty true, too much niceness can cramp some guys style.

Also, I think guys like to have some sort of emotional leverage. They need the girl to do bad things for them to take advantage of them. If the girl does something bad, then the guy can do something bad and always point out the girls mistakes and never give her an edge. Nice girls don't have anything they can take advantage of...so they actually have to try a real relationship and thats really not for most guys...

I don't have much experience though, so this is all conjecture anyways.

I think you really get an interesting point, The only detail that precludes me to do the same is that I prefer so much more to hug a girl than my PC. Well, I am looking to it now... perhaps lacks some hair over the screen

edition: for sure not, absolutely no comparison...

Cruelty can be attractive.